Here we go again

D4Ni13

I don't get it. Why is everybody always jumping to (very bad) conclusions before we even see the full details of something new to arrive ? 

PvP win-based was always going to come, with 2 or 3 tests in already, it was only a matter of time. But, nobody said that it will be the same number or a different number of wins. Nobody played an entire season of this, so nobody knows how good or bad this change is. 

Everybody thought that vaulting was bad, and while it wasn't great for everybody, it was helpful for a lot of people at that time. 

Why don't you want to wait & see what happens, before you kill every member of the dev team for something you don't know half of ? 

Just my 2 cents on this situation. 

PS. I also think 40 is a bit too much, but hey, this is not a deal-breaker for me. At least you can obtain the cover if you really want it. 

Bowgentle

D4Ni13 said:

I don't get it. Why is everybody always jumping to (very bad) conclusions before we even see the full details of something new to arrive ? 

Because we've been here for four years, and every time they roll out changes in this way - throw a bomb a day before the changes are visible in game, then run and hide until stuff blows over - the changes have been BAD.
Very bad.

Every time.

I for one am about 12 changes beyond giving them any benefit of the doubt any longer.

D4Ni13

Bowgentle said:

D4Ni13 said:

I don't get it. Why is everybody always jumping to (very bad) conclusions before we even see the full details of something new to arrive ? 

Because we've been here for four years, and every time they roll out changes in this way - throw a bomb a day before the changes are visible in game, then run and hide until stuff blows over - the changes have been BAD.
Very bad.

Every time.

I for one am about 12 changes beyond giving them any benefit of the doubt any longer.

Fair enough... 

Quebbster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGNK-cOtxSs

Here we go again to the temple of consumtion...

D4Ni13

Quebbster said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGNK-cOtxSs

Here we go again to the temple of consumtion...

Ah, the era in which everybody used to push their face in the camera as much as they could. These guys have really bad teeths, lol. Now everyone pushes their buttoms (the other word was censured) in the camera. Wonder what the future holds

JHawkInc

From the thread announcing Win-Based PVP.

Based on this information, we have determined that the previous iteration of Progression Rewards Based on Wins was ultimately a good structure that offered players flexibility in play-time, while still providing the elements necessary to drive competitive spirit.

This is PR-speak for "no changes are being made." Vague positive thoughts, no data to back them up (they sure as hell aren't going to give us data we could try to analyze and use to argue against their decision), zero attempts to address pre-existing complaints from previous runs of this system.

They're sticking to their guns because it's what they want to do, and they're trying to kick up as little dust as they can because their intention is to ride out the vocal frustration, rather than addressing it.

You're right, in that we don't know specifics. But silence speaks volumes.

Starfury

D4Ni13 said:

PS. I also think 40 is a bit too much, but hey, this is not a deal-breaker for me. At least you can obtain the cover if you really want it. 

I could do that before, now it's just more work.

Do I need a better reason to be allowed to dislike the change?

D4Ni13

JHawkInc said:

You're right, in that we don't know specifics. But silence speaks volumes.

Agree, but still they might change some things. Like I really doubt they would give us 20 HP as final reward like they did in the last test. They could still lower the number if they want to. I don't know if they do. But good thinks will come from this change also: 

• players that want to play only progression will not be impacted by points so they don't need to shield and they would open up their teams because of that
• more players with opened-up teams means more variety in teams you see overall, and this will benefit both progression oriented players and placement oriented players
• new strategies, since for an easier progression you don't want to be in the top, because you will fight harder teams, so this coupled with teams variety will mean overall more targets for everybody
• you can play as much as you want & whenever you want. A lot of players hate the fact that they have to play PvE at the start & at the end to get max progression. So if PvE is a mess, at least it is good that PvP would allow people to play whenever they want, since for progression only quantity matters and not timing or speed. 

D4Ni13

Starfury said:

D4Ni13 said:

PS. I also think 40 is a bit too much, but hey, this is not a deal-breaker for me. At least you can obtain the cover if you really want it. 

I could do that before, now it's just more work.

Do I need a better reason to be allowed to dislike the change?

Nobody said you cannot dislike the change, but lets be honest, people complain way to much for things they just 'dislike', how you put it. Threatening to quit is not a reaction to a simple dislike. I hate to see complains just for the sake of them being there. But again, feel free to do whatever you like. This post was my way of saying that I disliked what I've seen in the main topic. 

Bowgentle

D4Ni13 said:

JHawkInc said:

You're right, in that we don't know specifics. But silence speaks volumes.

Agree, but still they might change some things. Like I really doubt they would give us 20 HP as final reward like they did in the last test. They could still lower the number if they want to. I don't know if they do. But good thinks will come from this change also: 

• more players with opened-up teams means more variety in teams you see overall, and this will benefit both progression oriented players and placement oriented players

Placement orientated players will see dual champed 5s for all eternity because MMR doesn't care what you run, I can't see you.
I'm only seeing players using dual champed 5s.

STOPTHIS

I envy your optimism.

ValekBoss

Bowgentle said:

D4Ni13 said:

JHawkInc said:

You're right, in that we don't know specifics. But silence speaks volumes.

Agree, but still they might change some things. Like I really doubt they would give us 20 HP as final reward like they did in the last test. They could still lower the number if they want to. I don't know if they do. But good thinks will come from this change also: 

• more players with opened-up teams means more variety in teams you see overall, and this will benefit both progression oriented players and placement oriented players

Placement orientated players will see dual champed 5s for all eternity because MMR doesn't care what you run, I can't see you.
I'm only seeing players using dual champed 5s.

Like he said...It will only be 40 matches againsst dual champed 5*! Opened up teams......LOL!

brisashi

Critical voices are always the loudest

Bowgentle

mexus said:

brisashi said:

Critical voices are always the loudest

Critical and loud voices are critical and loud but don't often listened to.
They implement the changes definitely - because what happened in-game (in silence!) proved that the win-based system is a welcome change.

I'd say the critical and loud voices are often quite few. Like Manowar said in Leeds 1984:
"They are many but they are weak! We are few but we are strong!" and by that they meant "we" as in the players that welcome the changes in PVP.

I hope your many will pick up the slack in revenue.
Cause when those PVP changes really manage to drive the whales away, the game is dead.

The rockett

@Bowgentle is right. Dropped a lot during the sale. Spending freeze now.  

DyingLegend

It's the internet...what did you expect?

Wjohnson992

Every time a new change happens I become extremely happy that I havent champed my 13 cover 5trange and sold two covers instead. 5* Land really sounds like it breaks the game.

CT1888

This kills the 5* transition for anyone pvp focused unless they open up MMR. Why would you want to enter that realm and have to grind 40 wins against Panthos/Gambolt/etc. for the same rewards as before?
In the points based regime, once you had champed 5*s, the CP 1200 became more easily accessible, which was surely the point of building a stronger roster.

Wjohnson992

PVE recently has become far easier for "whales" there is more CP to be had and "whales" can even drop to SCL7 and have their 5*'s blitz through for an easy t10. For newer players this new pvp will probably be thier only means of rostering a 4*.

broll

Bowgentle said:

D4Ni13 said:

I don't get it. Why is everybody always jumping to (very bad) conclusions before we even see the full details of something new to arrive ? 

Because we've been here for four years, and every time they roll out changes in this way - throw a bomb a day before the changes are visible in game, then run and hide until stuff blows over - the changes have been BAD.
Very bad.

Every time.

I for one am about 12 changes beyond giving them any benefit of the doubt any longer.

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.

If you really think every change is catastrophically bad and as you stated in the announcement thread this change means the game won't live to a 5th anniversary, then why are you still playing?

As the OP says this is vaulting all over again.  Vaulting was really good for some, really bad for others and was ultimately changed to something that's generally accepted as a good compromise.  As someone who overreacted pretty badly about vaulting, I kept playing and learned to accept, in some ways almost like it by the time it was reversed.  

I truly hope some significant tweaks were made because there certainly were some issues with the win-based system.  If they weren't they'll probably listen to feedback for a while and come back with something similar, but slightly different in a few months.

Bryan Lambert

CT1888 said:

This kills the 5* transition for anyone pvp focused unless they open up MMR. Why would you want to enter that realm and have to grind 40 wins against Panthos/Gambolt/etc. for the same rewards as before?
In the points based regime, once you had champed 5*s, the CP 1200 became more easily accessible, which was surely the point of building a stronger roster.

That’s not my current experience, FYI.

I just champed my first two 5-stars (Jean and OML, because that’s who I had covers for first) and it took me from an MMR where I was matched with people on a roughly equal footing to an MMR where I was matched with a mix of champed, better 5-stars (including whales with champed Gambits) and 4-Stars with 50 more champ levels than mine. My float point dropped below 300. I was never a heavy PVP guy before, but I went from being able to hit 575 with minimal hassle to being unable to hit 300 hassle-free. I don’t expect my MMR to improve under the new system, but I should be able to scratch out enough victories over 2.5 days to crawl back to the 10CP.