This Game Isn't Fun Anymore

Unknown

Polarity, what's your levels on the Daken node on hard? I have 125 on easy unlock and 135 on hard unlock and Daken + Storm + Hulk is 204. I believe my levels are overwritten by the community scaling because my hard unlock has fluctuated between 125 to 135 but Daken started at 201 and is now 204 which sure looks like it's only going up by community scaling. If you're seeing level 300s then your personal scaling has to be higher than community scaling.

It's not just winning any one game that will immediately hike your scaling, but repeatedly winning while taking minimal damage will definitely increase your scaling.

over_clocked

Okay I will suicide my Ares, MN Thor, Hulk and BP some more

Spoit

Phantron wrote:

locked wrote:

allorin wrote:

Can we agree that's broken? It can't be what the Devs intend - removing the fun from the game so people don't want to play (which is what this thread was about, after all).

Also crazy is the strategy you're suggesting. It might work - but are we really so accepting of the game being fundamentally broken that we will deliberately play to lose, in the hope that later we might be able to play to win? That's getting quite surreal. Again, back to the topic - this game isn't fun any more. That is just not fun. It's not. And I think it's right and fair that the active, vocal forumites call that out to the Devs and ask them to consider changes.

I was suggesting to play as poorly as possible - e.g. losing a guy on purpose, not to lose all the time. The game clearly thinks we win too often.
As for the player enjoyment, other people in this thread already outlined that we're not entitled to enjoy the game in the way we want, F2P or not

You don't have to purposely suck. Losing 3K total health between your characters is pretty much always enough to keep the scaling manageable, and to do better than that against anyone who can move the board pretty much requires Magneto or Spiderman. 3000 damage is just 10 match 3s from level 230 enemies and the game rightfully should suspect something weird is going on if you somehow took less damage than that. When you're not using Magneto or Spiderman, you'll find that you don't have to try very hard to accidentally lose a guy to a Headbutt or eat a Rage of the Panther.

In general there's no reason to purposely suck during a battle because if you want to take more damage, you can simply win and then purposely let everyone die in the next battle. Keep in mind a character like lazy Thor needs about 11 hours to go from down to full health at level 141, so do make sure you're going to be away from the game a while, or log back in later to use a health pack. I do think the rather ridiculous downtime on the tankier characters could be considerably shorter. Something like max of 2 hours from 1 HP to max plus the current time for down would be more than enough.

Yeah, they really should consider making it percentage based rather than just a straight time/hp. But I thought D3_will said that prologue healing doesn't count?

Bowgentle

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Nope: my entry nodes are at 63 for easy and 73 for hard: I think you're getting hit hard with personal scaling.

How do you manage to stay _that_ low?
I'm doing next to nothing in each sub and mine are at 89 for easy and 94 for hard.
Are you sticking to a one-clear strategy?

over_clocked

NorthernPolarity wrote:

coffeeandbacon wrote:

So, general question: with the scaling, it seems like Spiderman is.... bad? I only have a few characters I rely on to grind out points and it seems having them healthy is important - Are people a) burning health packs or b) using spidey in prologue to bring them back up to full health? does scaling look at your health when you end the match or your health going into the match ( I assume the former?)?

I sculpt my runs such that I just use health packs to heal through the damage. I do 2 runs to 10th place: one ~15 hours before the end of the event, and one one hour before the event. With the right team its really not that hard to take some damage during each match and then gather the AP to burst them down.

I read a more detailed post somewhere else but can't find it yet

Bowgentle

locked wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

coffeeandbacon wrote:

So, general question: with the scaling, it seems like Spiderman is.... bad? I only have a few characters I rely on to grind out points and it seems having them healthy is important - Are people a) burning health packs or b) using spidey in prologue to bring them back up to full health? does scaling look at your health when you end the match or your health going into the match ( I assume the former?)?

I sculpt my runs such that I just use health packs to heal through the damage. I do 2 runs to 10th place: one ~15 hours before the end of the event, and one one hour before the event. With the right team its really not that hard to take some damage during each match and then gather the AP to burst them down.

I read a more detailed post somewhere else but can't find it yet

Ah thanks, I do remember reading something somehwere, but there's some info scattered all over about 10 threads by now

Twysta

TheUnwiseOne wrote:

The point and my last point on this thread before i go loopy is, we shouldn't have to play the game a very specific way just to progress and have fun.

I find PvE isn't fun for me at all anymore.
I am of the belief a lot of people do it now because it's "necessary" as it normally hands out newer covers.

Unknown

Twysta wrote:

I am of the belief a lot of people do it now because it's "necessary" as it normally hands out newer covers.

I kinda agree. Remember when there was only 1 sub? People asked for the choice between easy and hard but what we got was not a choice at all--we have to grind both to win. It doesn't help that scaling can cause the easy sub to reach the same levels as the hard sub.

_RiO_

Twysta wrote:

I find PvE isn't fun for me at all anymore.
I am of the belief a lot of people do it now because it's "necessary" as it normally hands out newer covers.

^ This.
It's not much of a game anymore when over half of it has become a chore.

Linkster79

TheUnwiseOne wrote:

The point and my last point on this thread before i go loopy is, we shouldn't have to play the game a very specific way just to progress and have fun.

100% this.

There characters capable of healing but you get punished for using them.

There are characters that are capable of stunning but we get punished for using them.

There are valid in game strategies for minimising damage taken so play time can be prolonged but we get punished for using them.

Play for long periods and we get punished.

Others find certain matches easy, we ALL get punished.

Live in certain times zones you get punished as the only time that matters is the last 2 hours of events.

Why the **** do I still play this game? I have just spent an hour reading all 10 pages of this thread and had more fun doing so than playing Simulator events. Lets us hope that people who work for D3P and actually get paid to do so can do the same and maybe give even a small amount of feedback. I must admit their silence is deafening.

Twysta

Yeah I'm finding I've acquired a distinct lack of patience and tolerance for the game, which causes me to vent a bit.
And I hate being that guy who just pisses and moans all the time - but I feel it building up... Just call me Bruce.

Maybe I've been playing too much too long? Maybe it's the changes? Maybe it's both?
I dunno. I'd rather just being able to keep enjoying it though and surely any kind of game should aim for that?
I hope their main focus isn't actually on trying to increase revenue as much as making a fun game which attempts to retain and entertain it's whole playerbase - new and old alike - which you would think fundementally would generate a steady revenue.

But hell, what do I know? I'm just one player in a whole world of players.

Moral

PvE matches stress me out. I can't just pick a team and smash my opponents. I can't even get a really cool cascade win without thinking scaling will jump 30 levels.

I worry that I'll come back from a refresh and find a wall of 330s waiting for me.

Makes me think of what it would be like to go out golfing or play tennis with a bad boss. Play well enough to look like you're trying but not so well you'll embarrass him. Otherwise you'll pay . . .

LordWill

I'm sitting here thinking about how I want to say this, I should probably just have Davecazz write it .

I've spent money on the game to help my roster, to become more powerful, to get new heros which all will help me in the game right? I mean you would think that by spending money to get new characters and building up your powers of certain characters would be a good thing. That it would make the game a little bit easier, that it would make a difference. And for a time that did happen and it was great. Then the scaling changes came and all that money invested not so helpful anymore. This game isn't exactly inexpensive. I've spent quite a bit so its gone from FREE to PLAY to I've got quite a bit invested in terms of money and time and its hard for me to just walk away or not play. I still love the game, I just don't like certain aspects that make it not as fun as it used to be.

I guess I don't like that attitude of "Let's just see how far we can push players into spending more and what they will tolerate before they quit" I would rather see the approach of "Hey let's see how we can make this game better and more engaging AND make money doing it" I can tell you this, level 400 enemies=not very fun. Community scaling=not fun.

So what am I to do now? I've spent money, invested time, I've been a supporter of the game, and now that things are changed, what tough luck? Thanks for your money and if you don't like the game just quit playing?

I guess had I known now what I knew then, I would have done things differently.

The whole reason they are in this mess if because they didn't plan well enough for an "End Game" and what happens when people get into the higher level of game play. Instead of rewarding those that achieve greatness and cunning are smacked down and punished. It seems like its been one bandaid after another with little to no communication, everything played close to the vest and no indication of where the game is going other than trying to increase the ARPDAU via player punishment. And you know, I might be the minority but given enough time if things don't change, others that have spent quite a bit of money and time will come here say exactly what we are discussing now. They will be unhappy and the vicious cycle will continue.

The rewards are not outweighing the risk. There is no point to the end game. And if you guys with your own internal data, metrics and code cannot figure out progression rewards work (they have been unobtainable for how long now?), what makes you think you can somehow balance an even more complex structure like scaling? Really?

Do the metrics tell them that players are unhappy but play anyways because they already invested so much?

It just seems like spending money sort of has the opposite effect than what I want. Instead of making the game easier, it cranks up the levels, it employs scaling because all of a sudden someone looked at the metrics and decided I am not challenged enough, better make it harder...It almost feels like a a bait and switch.

I didn't ask for more challenge, there was never any public outcry that the game was too easy. Fighting level 230 enemies is hard enough and doing it every single fight is really NOT fun. Repeat slogging through 10 minutes fights for 20 iso is not my idea of a good time nor did I spend my money just so I could have this wonderful experience.

Paying money to play the game to lose or play badly so I can continue to play is the most ridiculous game mechanic I have ever heard in my 30+ years of gaming.

Spoit

There might not have been much of an outcry, but certain people have been consistently moaning about the game being piss easy for months now (and how about every other character is way OP)

Unknown

Well, it certainly was piss-easy at one point. All the enemy levels were static and you could AP boost to +6 across the board for a small fee. Then you had to grind through 20 different nodes just to 'keep up' with the leaders. zzzzz

I think level scaling (and rubber-banding) works, but it's screwed up that some people are starting events out +100 levels over where I start at. They are being punished for their 'past sins', but were unable to know that what they were doing was considered 'a sin' in the current paradigm.

scottee

Interesting. The 2nd node in the Simulator, the one with the borrowed 3* (now Rags). Since you can only complete it once, there should be no community scaling. That means it should tell you where your personal scaling is.

My easy mode is level 25's, and my hard mode were level 40's. That means all the other scaling on the other nodes in community, not personal.

Anyone seeing high levels on that node?

Unknown

scottee wrote:

Interesting. The 2nd node in the Simulator, the one with the borrowed 3* (now Rags). Since you can only complete it once, there should be no community scaling. That means it should tell you where your personal scaling is.

My easy mode is level 25's, and my hard mode were level 40's. That means all the other scaling on the other nodes in community, not personal.

Anyone seeing high levels on that node?

Each node still has its own modifier on the enemy level. So far all the team-up nodes in this event have extremely low levels, similar to the Devil Dino team up node in The Hunt. I had 395s on most missions and Devil Dino was still only level 30 for the enemies. For example all the essential nodes always have lower levels compared to others because you're forced to use a certain character which generally reduces the effectiveness of your team.

The best node to use to see your personal scaling is the mission in the main bracket that you can only do once.

AdamMagus

Twysta wrote:

I find PvE isn't fun for me at all anymore.
I am of the belief a lot of people do it now because it's "necessary" as it normally hands out newer covers.

What bores me with these PvE events is the length of them, am sorry but 7 days was wayyyyyy to long, then they had to go and make them 10 days.

They should cap them at 3 days, no more, no less, 3 days is as long as am willing to tolerate a PvE event

Unknown

What frustrates me about this game is with each passing week the game is getting more difficult for less and less reward. I have maxed two stars but no powerful three star characters and my starting nodes are against level 100-200 enemies. I do not have spiderman, have never leveled or used OBW, never once healed in the prolouge and never tanked in any event. I play every day but dont have the time to lose on purpose. The fact that the game gets a lot more difficult if you dont lose on purpose just seems ridiculous for a game thats supposed to be competitive. I spent a fair amount of money up to this point but am now reading that people are being punished with additional difficulty for doing so. Just seems like the devs need to figure out a way to balance this game before they harm their relationship with their best customers and most dedicated fanbase. Devs really should communicate regarding MMR and scaling.

Unknown

AdamMagus wrote:

Twysta wrote:

I find PvE isn't fun for me at all anymore.
I am of the belief a lot of people do it now because it's "necessary" as it normally hands out newer covers.

What bores me with these PvE events is the length of them, am sorry but 7 days was wayyyyyy to long, then they had to go and make them 10 days.

They should cap them at 3 days, no more, no less, 3 days is as long as am willing to tolerate a PvE event

A 3 day event would basically be decided on solely the last refresh for the vast majority of players though, and would give people in the wrong timezone almost no chance to do well. In a 3 or 4 sub bracket structure event like The Hunt, you at least have some chance to to make up for a bad sub bracket. Having more frequent sub brackets would be very bad as shown by The Hunt where we almost have 2 sub brackets ending each day which was absolutely painful on the schedule.