What is your opinion on the new Infinity Progression

13

Comments

  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2017
    Like it!
    @Milk Jugz
    You lost me at 4 shields.  

    Also twice as many matches doesn't necessarily mean twice as much effort.  I was able to chose easier teams and quicker teams that were more fun to play against.  I got to 40 wins playing the same rate I always, do give or take, but spreading that out and picking more leisurely times.  I hit 40 with 1d 8h left and had 871 and was in 10th place at the time.  It was way less stress and frustration than I've ever had in PvP.  And to get to that point I spent 0 HP.  Now I did end up shielding after that to see if I can stay in top 10, but next time I'll pace it out better and see if I can hit my 40 much later and not spend any HP.  

    If I can get the 4* (which at this point is my main concern) why would I want to spend 450 HP when I can spend 0?
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    Don't like it!
    broll said:
    @Milk Jugz
    You lost me at 4 shields.  

    Also twice as many matches doesn't necessarily mean twice as much effort.  I was able to chose easier teams and quicker teams that were more fun to play against.  I got to 40 wins playing the same rate I always, do give or take, but spreading that out and picking more leisurely times.  I hit 40 with 1d 8h left and had 871 and was in 10th place at the time.  It was way less stress and frustration than I've ever had in PvP.  And to get to that point I spent 0 HP.  Now I did end up shielding after that to see if I can stay in top 10, but next time I'll pace it out better and see if I can hit my 40 much later and not spend any HP.  

    If I can get the 4* (which at this point is my main concern) why would I want to spend 450 HP when I can spend 0?
    Well, the HP is cost neutral for what you earn in the event and we had far different experiences..... There was no variety or easy matches for me. Just an endless parade of Red Hulk, Vulture, Mordo, Black Bolt, Thano5, Panther, etc.....
  • Mustache1
    Mustache1 Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
    Don't like it!
    broll said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    broll said:
    fmftint said:
    Let's stretch this out for a regular season, if it's 67 wins for a 2 event mini season, it's 335 wins for max progression in a regular season. In a 21 day season that's 16 wins/day

    Thanks but no thanks

    Good point. I average pretty close to that and have never gotten above 8000. So that would be an improvement for me. 
    The most simple way to say this is you are playing wrong then. I average half that and finish over 10k. How else could we have such different results with such a different amount of effort?? My roster is not so far ahead of yours that that should be the difference.....
    Because you use work arounds and collusion to work around flaws in the system that I chose not to use and the vast majority of players are completely oblivious to.  I'm not necessarily saying your necessarily doing anything wrong going for the most rewards possible but I'd much rather the game be fixed so Joe Everyplayer has a chance not just those that know the secret handshake and got their decoder ring. 
    Maybe google the definition of collusion. You most certainly are saying he's doing something wrong.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    Don't like it!
    Mustache1 said:
    broll said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    broll said:
    fmftint said:
    Let's stretch this out for a regular season, if it's 67 wins for a 2 event mini season, it's 335 wins for max progression in a regular season. In a 21 day season that's 16 wins/day

    Thanks but no thanks

    Good point. I average pretty close to that and have never gotten above 8000. So that would be an improvement for me. 
    The most simple way to say this is you are playing wrong then. I average half that and finish over 10k. How else could we have such different results with such a different amount of effort?? My roster is not so far ahead of yours that that should be the difference.....
    Because you use work arounds and collusion to work around flaws in the system that I chose not to use and the vast majority of players are completely oblivious to.  I'm not necessarily saying your necessarily doing anything wrong going for the most rewards possible but I'd much rather the game be fixed so Joe Everyplayer has a chance not just those that know the secret handshake and got their decoder ring. 
    Maybe google the definition of collusion. You most certainly are saying he's doing something wrong.
    It's especially humorous with how vocal I've been on these forums about NOT using them too.......
  • Jsh2014
    Jsh2014 Posts: 87 Match Maker
    Like it!
    Milk Jugz said:
    MrCroaker64 said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    broll said:
    fmftint said:
    Let's stretch this out for a regular season, if it's 67 wins for a 2 event mini season, it's 335 wins for max progression in a regular season. In a 21 day season that's 16 wins/day

    Thanks but no thanks

    Good point. I average pretty close to that and have never gotten above 8000. So that would be an improvement for me. 
    The most simple way to say this is you are playing wrong then. I average half that and finish over 10k. How else could we have such different results with such a different amount of effort?? My roster is not so far ahead of yours that that should be the difference.....
    This, right here, is why I seldom get involved in these types of conversations (though I doubt anyone minds that I don't participate). 

    I have a pretty decent roster. Most of my 4* are Champed. Starting to level my 5*. I like PVP for the change and challenge, but have no real concern on my placement. As such, I don't bother shielding or trying to do shield hops. I would reach my Progression reward goal and then freefall back to 200-300 points. So obviously I am either playing wrong or am incompetent.

    For me, this change is very nice. I would like to see the number of wins needed for top progression lowered, but I can deal with it, as is, if needed. Much less irritating than spending 100 ISO in skips to find a target worth 50 points, winning the battle, and having been hit 3 times for a net loss of 40 points. 

    So, I guess I am a bad player in that I don't do it the "optimal" way. But the way that I do play lets me stay relaxed enough that 3 years in I still enjoy the game.

    -Croak.
    Jsh2014 said:
    @MrCroaker64 well said 
    Well said- HAHAHAHA!!!!!

    The only thing that is being said here is I don't want to play the way I have to to minimize matches played to points won. I'd rather HAVE to play DOUBLE the matches!! Ridiculous!!!

    There is a way to play Versus to earn the 4* cover @ 900 in 20 or less matches and the 15 CP @ 1200 in 25 or less matches. Using 4 shields for a total of 450 HP (2 8hr and 2 3 hr). With no outside communication, no shield checks, no battle chat. Just hitting the targets the game provides to you, sure sometimes you have to skip a few to find a good one.

    The one thing that everyone who likes the system keeps saying is "It's great, I can play a few matches here, a few matches there". What they fail to realize is I do THE SAME THING in the old system for the first almost 48 hours of the event. Once I get within that 12-24 hour left range I climb to a shield point, usually 800-950 and shield for 3 or 8 hours (depending on the exact amount of time left). Near the end of that shield I queue high point targets (at this point they need to be 60-75 point matches). Then I do my first hop- first match goes quickly, I do a second. That goes quickly, I do a third. Shield again- 3 or 8, whichever I didn't use the last time. If I did three there from 900 @ an average of 65 each, that's 195. Now I'm at 1095. Near the end of that shield do it again and shield out. The HP expense is not great, considering what you earn in that event. And that is only 3 shields, sometimes I'll shield in the midst of the 24-60 hour left zone, but not always.

    The path is already there for anyone willing to do it! It's not stressful, and far less work than win based. I find win based to be FAR more stressful, FAR more work, and it is not fun. Versus is not the same as Story and making it that way takes variety out of the game. Part of why I like MPQ so much is because it is 2 different games in 1.

    Story mode- guaranteed progression, competitive placement
    Versus mode- competitive progression, competitive placement

    That one difference makes the game much more fun. Taking that away, while also increasing my time spent playing the game, is not a welcome change. I broke it down in the Infinity Season announcement thread. Under the current system, averaging 20 wins per event for 9xx and 40 wins for 2000 points in Shield Sim, you need to win 10 matches per day over the 24 day season. (2000/50= 40; 20x10=200; 200+40=240; 240/24=10). Under the win based system, using 75 wins for Shield Sim, you need to win ~20 matches per day (40x10=400; 400+75=475; 475/24=19.8). That is a 100% increase in play time!!!

    What really floors me is by the stats of this very poll as I write this, MORE people, mot many more but yes more, DO NOT LIKE the new system. We have all said it can be done in the old system. We have told you how to do it. You are the ones stuck thinking it's impossible. You don't believe we have gone through queue hell, point lost in a match, hitting a ceiling???? Of course we have, the difference we push through it and adjust our strategy to deal with it. This mode requires playing with a little strategy to get progression- that makes it fun. Story mode you can just mindlessly bull through and earn all the rewards. With Versus you need to be a little more savvy. I don't want another mode for mindless grinding- especially if it is TWICE the effort I am currently putting in.....
    And the problem is people get up set at other people saying what they feel what they like! This is a player base game RIGHT so that means the players need to play for a game to exist and as everyone knows there are less players and d3 must have noticed it for them to make this type of possible change! 
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    Don't like it!
    broll said:
    @Milk Jugz
    You lost me at 4 shields.  

    Also twice as many matches doesn't necessarily mean twice as much effort.  I was able to chose easier teams and quicker teams that were more fun to play against.  I got to 40 wins playing the same rate I always, do give or take, but spreading that out and picking more leisurely times.  I hit 40 with 1d 8h left and had 871 and was in 10th place at the time.  It was way less stress and frustration than I've ever had in PvP.  And to get to that point I spent 0 HP.  Now I did end up shielding after that to see if I can stay in top 10, but next time I'll pace it out better and see if I can hit my 40 much later and not spend any HP.  

    If I can get the 4* (which at this point is my main concern) why would I want to spend 450 HP when I can spend 0?
    I gotta admit, the more I think about this the more it pisses me off. Clearly, you do recognize that there is a way to earn the points. Yet, you simply don't want to spend the HP to do it. You would rather be out here tinykitting about how hard the point based system is, until it gets changed. If anyone is partaking in "collusion" to get what they want, it is you sir.

    For me, in the point based system I'm spending HP on shields. In the win based system, I'm spending HP on shields AND health packs. I do still care about placement. I don't get easy matches. So not only will the change double my time and effort. It doubles my HP expense also.
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    Don't like it!
    Just finished my last 20 matches against Rulk+2.

    Had reached 900 points after around 24 matches.

    Don't like the extra work required, didn't see any easier, more fun opponents. Guess I should have gamed the system by sandbagging for easy retals or just lose 10 battles to lose a few hundred points.
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,280 Chairperson of the Boards
    Like it!
    As a 4* transition player (8 4*s champed, all 3*s champed none higher than 280 in 4* or 180 in 3*) I really like this new system because I could only hit 575 reliably anyway and I am able to do that same reward (10 cp) with just a few matches. I don't care much about progression and anything I get is icing on the cake.

    All that aside, I was thinking today that this new system should be very 'gameable' by the top / better alliances.

    Right now it appears everyone is fielding top teams at all levels from what I read. But what if an alliance instead just put like 10 players on line at roughly the same MMR and instead fielded their worst / weakest teams once they did the seeds. Then they can beat up on each other's **** teams over and over to get 40 wins (or whatever they need) in short order so they get the wins component trivially (because they are always losing their point total will remain low so they can endlessly queue other bad / weak teams at their MMR). Then once they all have the win component they can start fielding their best teams to climb. Seems to me if everyone did this that the X wins will be virtually assured to everyone.

    I base the above on my experience that for the first 10 wins I was able to queue lots of 3* teams till I got into T50 point wise then I only got 4* champ teams. Overnight I was hit and dropped to outside T100 and was able to queue more 3* teams till I got back around T75ish. Thus my theory is you can rack up the win total component by keeping your score low and alliance mates could work together to keep everyone low till they had the wins.

    KGB
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    edited September 2017
    Don't like it!
    KGB said:

    I base the above on my experience that for the first 10 wins I was able to queue lots of 3* teams till I got into T50 point wise then I only got 4* champ teams. Overnight I was hit and dropped to outside T100 and was able to queue more 3* teams till I got back around T75ish. Thus my theory is you can rack up the win total component by keeping your score low and alliance mates could work together to keep everyone low till they had the wins.

    Which is why the new system is absolutely stupid in combination with the matchmaking system.

    Lose 10 times to reload easy matches: We've had something like that years ago, when people deliberately placed low in some events to get out of "strong player matchmaking"

    Say what you want about defensive losses and where certain rewards are placed in progression, but at least the system passed the sanity check of "winning = good, losing = bad"

  • Jsh2014
    Jsh2014 Posts: 87 Match Maker
    Like it!
    Please remember it's still a test and its funny how some seem to be losing their minds over it! 
  • Jsh2014
    Jsh2014 Posts: 87 Match Maker
    edited September 2017
    Like it!
    Also right now I'm in 6th in friends my self and one other player don't have 5* heros he's 5th and again I'm 6th  all other top 20 have 5*s. so again it seems to be better to me 
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Like it!

    Milk Jugz said:
    broll said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    broll said:
    fmftint said:
    Let's stretch this out for a regular season, if it's 67 wins for a 2 event mini season, it's 335 wins for max progression in a regular season. In a 21 day season that's 16 wins/day

    Thanks but no thanks

    Good point. I average pretty close to that and have never gotten above 8000. So that would be an improvement for me. 
    The most simple way to say this is you are playing wrong then. I average half that and finish over 10k. How else could we have such different results with such a different amount of effort?? My roster is not so far ahead of yours that that should be the difference.....
    Because you use work arounds and collusion to work around flaws in the system that I chose not to use and the vast majority of players are completely oblivious to.  I'm not necessarily saying your necessarily doing anything wrong going for the most rewards possible but I'd much rather the game be fixed so Joe Everyplayer has a chance not just those that know the secret handshake and got their decoder ring. 
    I've been very vocal on the forums about the fact that I don't use "work arounds" or "collusions". I'm in no battle chats, no shields check rooms, no coordination. I hit the targets the game presents to me- except alliance mates. Sometimes I have to skip a lot to find high value targets, but 10 iso times a few skips is worth the time it saves. I've said this numerous times, here on these forums, you don't need coordination to hit 1200. I've done it, without coordination. As with any game ever made on any console/platform/computer/whatever in order to achieve high score you have to know how to play it...... 
    Milk Jugz said:
    broll said:
    @Milk Jugz
    You lost me at 4 shields.  

    Also twice as many matches doesn't necessarily mean twice as much effort.  I was able to chose easier teams and quicker teams that were more fun to play against.  I got to 40 wins playing the same rate I always, do give or take, but spreading that out and picking more leisurely times.  I hit 40 with 1d 8h left and had 871 and was in 10th place at the time.  It was way less stress and frustration than I've ever had in PvP.  And to get to that point I spent 0 HP.  Now I did end up shielding after that to see if I can stay in top 10, but next time I'll pace it out better and see if I can hit my 40 much later and not spend any HP.  

    If I can get the 4* (which at this point is my main concern) why would I want to spend 450 HP when I can spend 0?
    I gotta admit, the more I think about this the more it pisses me off. Clearly, you do recognize that there is a way to earn the points. Yet, you simply don't want to spend the HP to do it. You would rather be out here tinykitting about how hard the point based system is, until it gets changed. If anyone is partaking in "collusion" to get what they want, it is you sir.

    For me, in the point based system I'm spending HP on shields. In the win based system, I'm spending HP on shields AND health packs. I do still care about placement. I don't get easy matches. So not only will the change double my time and effort. It doubles my HP expense also.
    Milk, sorry if I offended or pissed you off, that was not my intention. I don't have a photographic memory and I don't remember the play styles everyone on the forum purports to use and I'm sorry for my assumption.

    I have tried the shield based method several times and I don't enjoy it. I'm not going to play a way I don't enjoy. I'm also going to express my support for ways I do enjoy. When I've played with shields I find myself not enjoying the experience of having to dance around the games schedule, I have to do way too much of that anyway. I've also had several experiences where using the shield methods I still failed to hit 900 so I spent 500ish CP for nothing. So far in the tests I have found that I enjoy the style more, I can play when I want vs when the game dictates, and I can get the 4* with relative ease (I'm also placing better too for what that's worth).

     I'll agree to not criticize your play style if you agree not to criticize  the way and I others play... You reap what you sow...
    MrCroaker64 said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    broll said:
    fmftint said:
    Let's stretch this out for a regular season, if it's 67 wins for a 2 event mini season, it's 335 wins for max progression in a regular season. In a 21 day season that's 16 wins/day

    Thanks but no thanks

    Good point. I average pretty close to that and have never gotten above 8000. So that would be an improvement for me. 
    The most simple way to say this is you are playing wrong then. I average half that and finish over 10k. How else could we have such different results with such a different amount of effort?? My roster is not so far ahead of yours that that should be the difference.....
    This, right here, is why I seldom get involved in these types of conversations (though I doubt anyone minds that I don't participate). 

    I have a pretty decent roster. Most of my 4* are Champed. Starting to level my 5*. I like PVP for the change and challenge, but have no real concern on my placement. As such, I don't bother shielding or trying to do shield hops. I would reach my Progression reward goal and then freefall back to 200-300 points. So obviously I am either playing wrong or am incompetent.

    For me, this change is very nice. I would like to see the number of wins needed for top progression lowered, but I can deal with it, as is, if needed. Much less irritating than spending 100 ISO in skips to find a target worth 50 points, winning the battle, and having been hit 3 times for a net loss of 40 points. 

    So, I guess I am a bad player in that I don't do it the "optimal" way. But the way that I do play lets me stay relaxed enough that 3 years in I still enjoy the game.

    -Croak.

  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    Oh God I'm confused !!!!
    There are good and bad points to this system just like the current one. Very confusing to someone who tries to think logically, but doesn't have all the information necessary to make an informed choice.
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    Don't like it!
    I hit over 2k points in fewer than 40 matches and 2600 was not enough for t10 placement / CP.  More than twice the effort and a bunch of people still got screwed over.
  • matthatter
    matthatter Posts: 151 Tile Toppler
    Like it!
    as a player who strives only for 575 to get the CPs on the PVE event, I wanted to try and get to 40 wins, which I did. For me, 40 wins was achievable and I didn't have to keep fighting to get past 575 due to losses. Incidentally, I finished 43rd in my bracket w/ 763. When I hit 40 wins last night, I was around 900 points and 17th. I looked at the top 10, laughed, and put my phone down. All the top 15 were over 1500 points. 
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,581 Chairperson of the Boards
    Like it!
    It still needs tweaking a lot before it is ready to take over, but it is a positive change despite that.
  • AngryGerman
    AngryGerman Posts: 40 Just Dropped In
    Don't like it!
    Jsh2014 said:
    Please remember it's still a test and its funny how some seem to be losing their minds over it! 
    It's still a test, but there were zero changes between the first and current runs. That coupled with the game's history of testing changes, then rolling them out with minor tweaks at the most regardless of the forum reception, makes it a little easier to see why some people are "losing their minds."

    From reading the replies in this thread, it seems the majority of the people in favor of the change are either transitioning to 4*s or don't want/ can't spend hp on shields. Then the people against the change tend to have more fleshed out rosters and were willing and able to consistently hit the 4* progression in the old system. 

    I think having an either/or system for progression would satisfy both groups of people. The system gives you the appropriate progression reward when you hit a certain point total or win total. Obviously, they would be mutually exclusive. No getting two 4* covers per event, one from 40 wins and one from 900 points. 

    Most importantly though, put the 15 cp back in progression. Moving it to placement is total ****. 
  • Jsh2014
    Jsh2014 Posts: 87 Match Maker
    Like it!
    The one problem I am still having is that certain plays are not respecting others and if it's gonna get personal I will get this locked and I will report anyone who's getting to personal. Its a test and yea they might not make it better but let's give them a chance. AND ALSO RESPECT OTHER PLAYERS OPINIONS THIS IS A PLACE WE ARE SUPPOSED TO TALK ABOUT HOW THE GAME CAN GET BETTER SO RESPECT OTHERS!!!!!!!!! 
  • GuiPerdigao
    GuiPerdigao Posts: 12 Just Dropped In
    edited September 2017
    Like it!
    This system clearly favours the new players while veterans have to play more games for progression.
    I mean...It does benefits some and is bad for others...like anything else. (For me it's better)

    But the best would be a hybrid system where you have progression by points and/or victories. This way you could have easier progression by points and a "safe net", so in case you loose points would still have a way to get the progression reawards by victories.

    Oh.... and the CP only for top10 does need a fix.

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