Please design a character who can attack air-borne character.......

Dormammu

broll said:

As much as I like Vulture, I have no issue with the idea there should be some characters/moves that can hit airborne characters.  I see it like rock, paper, scissors.  There should always be a move that nerfs an OP move even if it's good most of the time outside that.  That's how you have balance.

Does everything require a direct counter? Stun doesn't have a counter, should we have someone with a power that 'un-stuns' allies? (Smelling Salts Man!) It's no different than Vulture's airborn mechanic because if you give me Mr. F and Medusa I'll put someone on a permanent loop of stun.

(PS I'm not trying to be snarky, I think its a valid discussion.)

CT1888

A direct counter might be too niche, but a power like "Kraven fires a net over the opponent, stunning target for x turns. If target was airborne, deal y damage as they hit the ground" might work (of course, then the stun by itself might be too expensive).
I like the idea of a combo with Nova though, he knocks them up, another character slaps them back down.

Jaedenkaal

Dormammu said:

Does everything require a direct counter? Stun doesn't have a counter, should we have someone with a power that 'un-stuns' allies? (Smelling Salts Man!) It's no different than Vulture's airborn mechanic because if you give me Mr. F and Medusa I'll put someone on a permanent loop of stun.

(PS I'm not trying to be snarky, I think its a valid discussion.)

Silver Surfer, 5* Widow, and 5* Panther all disagree with you. That's all 5* tier, I grant you. 4* Punisher, kind of, if you were silly enough to not stun him.

Also, invisibility can and does 'un-stun'. So both IW and Agent Venom can un-stun your allies.

Finally: Shouldn't Anti-Gravity Device affect airborne in some way? Discuss.

broll

Dormammu said:

broll said:

As much as I like Vulture, I have no issue with the idea there should be some characters/moves that can hit airborne characters.  I see it like rock, paper, scissors.  There should always be a move that nerfs an OP move even if it's good most of the time outside that.  That's how you have balance.

Does everything require a direct counter? Stun doesn't have a counter, should we have someone with a power that 'un-stuns' allies? (Smelling Salts Man!) It's no different than Vulture's airborn mechanic because if you give me Mr. F and Medusa I'll put someone on a permanent loop of stun.

(PS I'm not trying to be snarky, I think its a valid discussion.)

Silver Surfer is unstunnable he would be the only counter I can think of stuns.  He's not great but there is one.

To me I think airborne people should be able to be hit by AOEs, most AOEs I imagine as a spherical wave that would go equal distance on the x, y, and z axis, though this certainly isn't true for all, but nothings perfect either.

Dormammu

Jaedenkaal said:
Also, invisibility can and does 'un-stun'. So both IW and Agent Venom can un-stun your allies.

You know, I had no idea about that. Learn something about this game every day...

WalrusGooner

CT1888 said:

...I like the idea of a combo with Nova though, he knocks them up...

Isn't Sam a bit young for this?

CT1888

WalrusGooner said:

CT1888 said:

...I like the idea of a combo with Nova though, he knocks them up...

Isn't Sam a bit young for this?

This is why we should still have the laugh button!

Jaedenkaal

CT1888 said:

WalrusGooner said:

CT1888 said:

...I like the idea of a combo with Nova though, he knocks them up...

Isn't Sam a bit young for this?

This is why we should still have the laugh button!

Touche.

Dormammu said:

Jaedenkaal said:
Also, invisibility can and does 'un-stun'. So both IW and Agent Venom can un-stun your allies.

You know, I had no idea about that. Learn something about this game every day...

Airborne does too, actually, although I think the only character who can send stunned allies airborne is Gwenpool. (Stun allies aren't eligible for Fastball Special, as I recall)

Basically, a character can only have one "status"; stunned, invisible, airborne, (and downed, presumably). This also means a team or random stun can override invisibility (permanently, if there's not a tile or other static effect making them continuously invisible).

Milk Jugz

Jaedenkaal said:

I'm not sure this is significantly different than invisible characters who stay invisible (nearly) forever. You bring the wrong team, or can't get to that tile, you slowly die with nothing else to do.

I mean, sure, counters to invisibility exist, but it's not like everyone digs out their War Machine every time Prof X, Miles, Sue, or Howard are on the other side.

Definitely don't leave Vulture for last with a bunch of black AP, though. Drain that away before he's the last one left. (Elektra could be good here, it's possible that Ballet of Death will continue to drain AP even if he's airborne). Peggy presumably makes him a lot less effective at chaining Circling Prey if you can keep her health up.

There is a significant difference between Vulture going airborne and others going invisible. AoE powers still hit invisible targets, that alone is pretty significant. So, while War Machine has a very nice counter to destroy invisibility tiles, there are other options to damage them. Airborne Vulture has no option to damage him.

On a side note, Vulture, also, can destroy invisibility tiles.

ZootSax

Jaedenkaal said:

Dormammu said:

Does everything require a direct counter? Stun doesn't have a counter, should we have someone with a power that 'un-stuns' allies? (Smelling Salts Man!) It's no different than Vulture's airborn mechanic because if you give me Mr. F and Medusa I'll put someone on a permanent loop of stun.

(PS I'm not trying to be snarky, I think its a valid discussion.)

Silver Surfer, 5* Widow, and 5* Panther all disagree with you. That's all 5* tier, I grant you. 4* Punisher, kind of, if you were silly enough to not stun him.

Also, invisibility can and does 'un-stun'. So both IW and Agent Venom can un-stun your allies.

Finally: Shouldn't Anti-Gravity Device affect airborne in some way? Discuss.

Doesn't Gwenpool's black also unstun allies?  I thought I read that on the forums before, but it's honestly never come up when I've used her...

Pants1000

I recently champed my Vulture, and he's fun to play with but far from unbeatable.  Others above have already mentioned a few counters, and another that I've run into is 5* Thanos purple.  It prevents tiles from getting destroyed, so it prevents Vulture from triggering green when he lands.

I don't think the game needs a direct counter to airborne characters, but I wouldn't have a problem with them adding one either.

Straycat

It might be cool if a character had a power to send enemies airborne and a power with a condition that increases its affect if an enemy is airborne. It seemed like Riri was gonna have that, to solve her weird internal synergy between her red and green.  But overall I don't think they should rush to create a counter to Vulture. I don't know why they made him to generate black as well, but he's not that OP.

broll

Straycat said:

I don't know why they made him to generate black as well, but he's not that OP.

I took it as the characters primary advantage is his ability to fly and they were trying figure out a way to allow him to spend a significant time airborne while also giving the opponent a way to ground him (deny black, AP steal, stop him before he ever launches).

Also I think they are intentionally trying to make most newer 4*s stronger and trying to go back and help the older ones catch up with the reworks (with mixed success).  But, ultimately I think they want the new characters to be desirable and OP so people will throw money at the game to get them vs chasing the old good characters.

Anon

I might be completely wrong but don't attacks that hit 'randomly' (i.e. Bloodlust) hit airborne enemies? I could've sworn they did.

bluewolf

Anon said:

I might be completely wrong but don't attacks that hit 'randomly' (i.e. Bloodlust) hit airborne enemies? I could've sworn they did.

Well, I ran my Vulture and Blade through God of Lies PVP up to 900.  Vulture never got hit by Bloodlust while airborne.  I don't think prior character powers were designed with a flying character in mind that you want to hit.

Also, Vulture is great support but medium on his own.  He's not OP.  I definitely lost and used a lot of health packs in my climb.  Being airborne and generating AP is great, but can't overcome active matching in all cases. And his green is too easily matched away.

Milk Jugz

Anon said:

I might be completely wrong but don't attacks that hit 'randomly' (i.e. Bloodlust) hit airborne enemies? I could've sworn they did.

I know Bloodlust will not hit Vulture when he is airborne, from fighting him in Loki Versus. I would assume something like Moon Knights Moonsilver Blades will act the same way

Anon

Well I guess I was wrong then. Weird.

Wumpushunter

I'm not for or  against the suggestion but it would be easy to put a passive on a spider character existing Web power.  If you have amount of AP spider Gwen pulls airborne characters out of the sky automatically.

vinsensual

Might as well bring in this mechanic because they'll continue pumping out a character every 2 weeks and I've gotten tired of seeing "remove enemy special tiles" randomly tacked onto abilities/passives.

Calnexin

fmftint said:

Bring your own Vulture and play an infinite loop match

But seriously he has a huge health penalty, kill first, deny black

Ugh.  Can  you imagine the tedium of two vultures circling each other?  Just put the game down and cook a meal while you wait.