intended/unintended result of vaulting?

bluewolf

If you recall, back when 5Hawk was released, his store had a higher rate of bonus draws (I think). It was pure accident, but awesome.  Not a harbinger of upcoming changes.  I made out like a bandit on IMHB covers.

A few months ago, there was rumor of a change of DDQ vaults to token stores.  It was pretty official - a detailed rate of what you would get %wise was out there.  Never happened.  Some players used their hoarded DDQ tokens, to their eventual regret.

Assume nothing from this error.  However, classics are pretty much a lost cause at the current 5* rate, barring a high covered character already.  So I hope there is some change coming.  I highly doubt it would combine a higher 5* draw rate with just latest 4's for 20CP.  What a gift that would be.

FYI - you do not need to hoard to get all Latest covered.  If you have a high enough earn rate, pulling as you go can get it done.  So hoarding is the "sure thing" but not required.  I have a 12 cover 5hawk and 8 5pideys already. 

broll

Milk Jugz said:

Pinko McFly said:

Based on what we saw last Thursday, I am going to guess that vaulting will be back soon (probably in 1 week 6 days) but only in the classic store.
Those new odds seemed a little two well worked out to be accidental.
I did not look at what was in the legendary store as I was too busy scrambling to pull classics. Were the latest 12 in there or only vintage 4*s? To me it would be better if those were only vintage. Sure the 10% rate sucked but I'll take that for a big increase on classic 5* rates.

IIRC, the only thing that changed on Latest was the 5* draw rate, all the characters were still in there. I agree with your assessment though, that change was not just accidental. Something has already been drawn up for those odds and the accident was it was released before intention. Going to the devs sentiments that they don't want to encourage hoarding the changes on both vaults would certainly discourage hoarding. It will take far more pulls to cover the 3 Latest at 10% odds, and at 25% odds in Classic, I would live there..... Still have legendary tokens to get covers from Latest, but my CP would all go to Classic.

As someone who pull 83 that day I can tell you it was just the latest.  The graphics showed all but the proof is in the pulling.  Here were my 4* pulls, the only non-latest was a Mr. F BH.

4*s (30/47 64%)

Hobofist - 1

Gamora - 3 

C&D - 3

Mordo - 1

Mockingbird - 2

R&G - 5 (hit 4/4/4)

Vulture - 5 (hit 4/4/4)

Yondu - 3

Coleson - 1

Riri - 3

Sandman - 2

captain Marvel - 1

4*s (28/36 78% +1 BH)

Yondu - 5

C&D - 3 

Gamora - 2 

Mockingbird - 4

Captain Marvel - 5

Vulture - 2 

R&G - 1

Mordo - 2

Sandman - 1

Riri - 1
Mr. F (BH) - 1

~60 pulls and none vintage, no ones that lucky, or unlucky depending on your point of view...

That said I hope they aren't bring vaulted back on the classics, they should bring vaulting back for latest.  But who knows what they will do next.  I do agree with Pinko this was probably some internal testing that accidentally came down.  I had the same though.

Wumpushunter

Milk Jugz said:

New McG said:

KC_Hammer said:

Jaedenkaal said:
You can easily obtain the required 4* cover from progression in SCL7/8, before the last day in most cases, if you want. SCL7 definitely does not require champed 4*s to get enough points to get that far in the progression.

The problem with that is having one cover of a 4* rostered with progression rewards being the only way to get more and the required 4* was not a vaulted character 2 times out of 3 means that getting that character to a reasonable level was practically unattainable. Bonus hero procs so infrequently that its not really worth counting for someone in the 3* to 4* transition. 

Not being able to get characters to a reasonable level often meant not having more than 1 boosted 4* in PvP. Also while roster scaling PvE was a thing often, I would have to use boosted 3* when everything scaled to a few champed 4*. Sure vaulting reduces time for champing the latest but it drastically decreases time to get the vaulted ones.  

And now in only ~700 perfect LT pulls (with zero 5*s), you can easily cover all the 4s! You know, provided you also have 20M some iso floating around as well. Everyone will be caught up in a few weeks, right?

There's really no such thing as "caught up" in any system. If player B starts 3 years after player A, then B's roster will always be behind A's (short of whaling), unless A stops playing for 2-3 years

With character levels capped at 125, no super rewarding CL 9/10 and the very slow 5 star rate people are catching up faster than 2 year players are pulling away. Now newer players will never completely catch older players but closing the distance is possible.

Milk Jugz

broll said:

Milk Jugz said:

Pinko McFly said:

Based on what we saw last Thursday, I am going to guess that vaulting will be back soon (probably in 1 week 6 days) but only in the classic store.
Those new odds seemed a little two well worked out to be accidental.
I did not look at what was in the legendary store as I was too busy scrambling to pull classics. Were the latest 12 in there or only vintage 4*s? To me it would be better if those were only vintage. Sure the 10% rate sucked but I'll take that for a big increase on classic 5* rates.

IIRC, the only thing that changed on Latest was the 5* draw rate, all the characters were still in there. I agree with your assessment though, that change was not just accidental. Something has already been drawn up for those odds and the accident was it was released before intention. Going to the devs sentiments that they don't want to encourage hoarding the changes on both vaults would certainly discourage hoarding. It will take far more pulls to cover the 3 Latest at 10% odds, and at 25% odds in Classic, I would live there..... Still have legendary tokens to get covers from Latest, but my CP would all go to Classic.

As someone who pull 83 that day I can tell you it was just the latest.  The graphics showed all but the proof is in the pulling.  Here were my 4* pulls, the only non-latest was a Mr. F BH.

4*s (30/47 64%)

Hobofist - 1

Gamora - 3 

C&D - 3

Mordo - 1

Mockingbird - 2

R&G - 5 (hit 4/4/4)

Vulture - 5 (hit 4/4/4)

Yondu - 3

Coleson - 1

Riri - 3

Sandman - 2

captain Marvel - 1

4*s (28/36 78% +1 BH)

Yondu - 5

C&D - 3 

Gamora - 2 

Mockingbird - 4

Captain Marvel - 5

Vulture - 2 

R&G - 1

Mordo - 2

Sandman - 1

Riri - 1
Mr. F (BH) - 1

~60 pulls and none vintage, no ones that lucky, or unlucky depending on your point of view...

That said I hope they aren't bring vaulted back on the classics, they should bring vaulting back for latest.  But who knows what they will do next.  I do agree with Pinko this was probably some internal testing that accidentally came down.  I had the same though.

You pulled both vaults, then??

Pinko_McFly

Milk Jugz said:

broll said: 

Milk Jugz said:

Pinko McFly said:

Based on what we saw last Thursday, I am going to guess that vaulting will be back soon (probably in 1 week 6 days) but only in the classic store.
Those new odds seemed a little two well worked out to be accidental.
I did not look at what was in the legendary store as I was too busy scrambling to pull classics. Were the latest 12 in there or only vintage 4*s? To me it would be better if those were only vintage. Sure the 10% rate sucked but I'll take that for a big increase on classic 5* rates.

IIRC, the only thing that changed on Latest was the 5* draw rate, all the characters were still in there. I agree with your assessment though, that change was not just accidental. Something has already been drawn up for those odds and the accident was it was released before intention. Going to the devs sentiments that they don't want to encourage hoarding the changes on both vaults would certainly discourage hoarding. It will take far more pulls to cover the 3 Latest at 10% odds, and at 25% odds in Classic, I would live there..... Still have legendary tokens to get covers from Latest, but my CP would all go to Classic.

As someone who pull 83 that day I can tell you it was just the latest.  The graphics showed all but the proof is in the pulling.  Here were my 4* pulls, the only non-latest was a Mr. F BH.

4*s (30/47 64%)

Hobofist - 1

Gamora - 3 

C&D - 3

Mordo - 1

Mockingbird - 2

R&G - 5 (hit 4/4/4)

Vulture - 5 (hit 4/4/4)

Yondu - 3

Coleson - 1

Riri - 3

Sandman - 2

captain Marvel - 1

4*s (28/36 78% +1 BH)

Yondu - 5

C&D - 3 

Gamora - 2 

Mockingbird - 4

Captain Marvel - 5

Vulture - 2 

R&G - 1

Mordo - 2

Sandman - 1

Riri - 1
Mr. F (BH) - 1

~60 pulls and none vintage, no ones that lucky, or unlucky depending on your point of view...

That said I hope they aren't bring vaulted back on the classics, they should bring vaulting back for latest.  But who knows what they will do next.  I do agree with Pinko this was probably some internal testing that accidentally came down.  I had the same though.

But you pulled Classic right??? Read my post again!!!

Sometimes you just see the conversation going past them and nothing you can do to save it.
Yes. Classics only had latest 12.
We don't know what Latest had.

Warbringa

I can only comment on how the change impacted my own roster, being a veteran with a lot of vaulted characters, but I am glad vaulting is gone. As a collector, one major reason I play the game, I am also glad it is gone.  I still think though that the solution was and still is simple, latest legendary token offers current 12 and classic token offers all vaulted characters.

Milk Jugz

Pinko McFly said:

Milk Jugz said:

broll said: 

Milk Jugz said:

Pinko McFly said:

Based on what we saw last Thursday, I am going to guess that vaulting will be back soon (probably in 1 week 6 days) but only in the classic store.
Those new odds seemed a little two well worked out to be accidental.
I did not look at what was in the legendary store as I was too busy scrambling to pull classics. Were the latest 12 in there or only vintage 4*s? To me it would be better if those were only vintage. Sure the 10% rate sucked but I'll take that for a big increase on classic 5* rates.

IIRC, the only thing that changed on Latest was the 5* draw rate, all the characters were still in there. I agree with your assessment though, that change was not just accidental. Something has already been drawn up for those odds and the accident was it was released before intention. Going to the devs sentiments that they don't want to encourage hoarding the changes on both vaults would certainly discourage hoarding. It will take far more pulls to cover the 3 Latest at 10% odds, and at 25% odds in Classic, I would live there..... Still have legendary tokens to get covers from Latest, but my CP would all go to Classic.

As someone who pull 83 that day I can tell you it was just the latest.  The graphics showed all but the proof is in the pulling.  Here were my 4* pulls, the only non-latest was a Mr. F BH.

4*s (30/47 64%)

Hobofist - 1

Gamora - 3 

C&D - 3

Mordo - 1

Mockingbird - 2

R&G - 5 (hit 4/4/4)

Vulture - 5 (hit 4/4/4)

Yondu - 3

Coleson - 1

Riri - 3

Sandman - 2

captain Marvel - 1

4*s (28/36 78% +1 BH)

Yondu - 5

C&D - 3 

Gamora - 2 

Mockingbird - 4

Captain Marvel - 5

Vulture - 2 

R&G - 1

Mordo - 2

Sandman - 1

Riri - 1
Mr. F (BH) - 1

~60 pulls and none vintage, no ones that lucky, or unlucky depending on your point of view...

That said I hope they aren't bring vaulted back on the classics, they should bring vaulting back for latest.  But who knows what they will do next.  I do agree with Pinko this was probably some internal testing that accidentally came down.  I had the same though.

But you pulled Classic right??? Read my post again!!!

Sometimes you just see the conversation going past them and nothing you can do to save it.
Yes. Classics only had latest 12.
We don't know what Latest had.

Yeah, I re-read what he, @broll, posted and edited my post. I'm thinking he pulled from both vaults, by the looks of his post. He's right the graphic on Latest definitely showed all the characters, while the graphic on Classic showed only the latest 12. But, according to his list it looks like he pulled both vaults and only received latest 12 covers.

broll

Milk Jugz said:

broll said:

Milk Jugz said:

Pinko McFly said:

Based on what we saw last Thursday, I am going to guess that vaulting will be back soon (probably in 1 week 6 days) but only in the classic store.
Those new odds seemed a little two well worked out to be accidental.
I did not look at what was in the legendary store as I was too busy scrambling to pull classics. Were the latest 12 in there or only vintage 4*s? To me it would be better if those were only vintage. Sure the 10% rate sucked but I'll take that for a big increase on classic 5* rates.

IIRC, the only thing that changed on Latest was the 5* draw rate, all the characters were still in there. I agree with your assessment though, that change was not just accidental. Something has already been drawn up for those odds and the accident was it was released before intention. Going to the devs sentiments that they don't want to encourage hoarding the changes on both vaults would certainly discourage hoarding. It will take far more pulls to cover the 3 Latest at 10% odds, and at 25% odds in Classic, I would live there..... Still have legendary tokens to get covers from Latest, but my CP would all go to Classic.

As someone who pull 83 that day I can tell you it was just the latest.  The graphics showed all but the proof is in the pulling.  Here were my 4* pulls, the only non-latest was a Mr. F BH.

4*s (30/47 64%)

Hobofist - 1

Gamora - 3 

C&D - 3

Mordo - 1

Mockingbird - 2

R&G - 5 (hit 4/4/4)

Vulture - 5 (hit 4/4/4)

Yondu - 3

Coleson - 1

Riri - 3

Sandman - 2

captain Marvel - 1

4*s (28/36 78% +1 BH)

Yondu - 5

C&D - 3 

Gamora - 2 

Mockingbird - 4

Captain Marvel - 5

Vulture - 2 

R&G - 1

Mordo - 2

Sandman - 1

Riri - 1
Mr. F (BH) - 1

~60 pulls and none vintage, no ones that lucky, or unlucky depending on your point of view...

That said I hope they aren't bring vaulted back on the classics, they should bring vaulting back for latest.  But who knows what they will do next.  I do agree with Pinko this was probably some internal testing that accidentally came down.  I had the same though.

You pulled both vaults, then??

No I pulled from classics in two sprints and was too lazy to combine them for the post.

Combined 4* rates from those classic pulls:

56/83 67.5%

Hobofist	1
Gamora	5
C&D	6
Mordo	3
Mockingbird	6
R&G	6
Vulture	7
Yondu	8
Coleson	1
Riri	4
Sandman	3
Captain Marvel	6
Mr. Fantastic (BH)	1

Ducky

Wumpushunter said:

Milk Jugz said:

New McG said:

KC_Hammer said:

Jaedenkaal said:
You can easily obtain the required 4* cover from progression in SCL7/8, before the last day in most cases, if you want. SCL7 definitely does not require champed 4*s to get enough points to get that far in the progression.

The problem with that is having one cover of a 4* rostered with progression rewards being the only way to get more and the required 4* was not a vaulted character 2 times out of 3 means that getting that character to a reasonable level was practically unattainable. Bonus hero procs so infrequently that its not really worth counting for someone in the 3* to 4* transition. 

Not being able to get characters to a reasonable level often meant not having more than 1 boosted 4* in PvP. Also while roster scaling PvE was a thing often, I would have to use boosted 3* when everything scaled to a few champed 4*. Sure vaulting reduces time for champing the latest but it drastically decreases time to get the vaulted ones.  

And now in only ~700 perfect LT pulls (with zero 5*s), you can easily cover all the 4s! You know, provided you also have 20M some iso floating around as well. Everyone will be caught up in a few weeks, right?

There's really no such thing as "caught up" in any system. If player B starts 3 years after player A, then B's roster will always be behind A's (short of whaling), unless A stops playing for 2-3 years

With character levels capped at 125, no super rewarding CL 9/10 and the very slow 5 star rate people are catching up faster than 2 year players are pulling away. Now newer players will never completely catch older players but closing the distance is possible.

Character levels aren't capped at 125, SHIELD Rank is. Those are two entirely different things. And shield rank isn't a good indicator for roster strength anyway since it can be so easily inflated. 

Pongie

bluewolf said:

If you recall, back when 5Hawk was released, his store had a higher rate of bonus draws (I think). It was pure accident, but awesome.  Not a harbinger of upcoming changes.  I made out like a bandit on IMHB covers.

Yup, that's when I pulled my hoard (4025cp). Hoping to get get at least 1-2 bonus hero and finish oml but got 0. The rate was 16%. Managed to finish hawkeye and ended up with 29 bonus hero covers for peggy. Nothing compared to 25% 5* rate though. Bags of tricks were 10% 5*, even with the increased 16% bonus hero, it was still only 1.6%. Where as 25% 5* with 5% bonus hero would be 1.25%. Much better to have 15% more 5* than 0.35% bonus hero

bluewolf

Pongie said:

Nothing compared to 25% 5* rate though. Bags of tricks were 10% 5*, even with the increased 16% bonus hero, it was still only 1.6%. Where as 25% 5* with 5% bonus hero would be 1.25%. Much better to have 15% more 5* than 0.35% bonus hero

You are, of course, 100% correct.  I just wanted to make the point that we should not expect any change to necessarily be a repeat of the Oops! Classic store last week.  Sometimes a mistake is just a mistake.

Wumpushunter

Ducky said:

Wumpushunter said:

Milk Jugz said:

New McG said:

KC_Hammer said:

Jaedenkaal said:
You can easily obtain the required 4* cover from progression in SCL7/8, before the last day in most cases, if you want. SCL7 definitely does not require champed 4*s to get enough points to get that far in the progression.

The problem with that is having one cover of a 4* rostered with progression rewards being the only way to get more and the required 4* was not a vaulted character 2 times out of 3 means that getting that character to a reasonable level was practically unattainable. Bonus hero procs so infrequently that its not really worth counting for someone in the 3* to 4* transition. 

Not being able to get characters to a reasonable level often meant not having more than 1 boosted 4* in PvP. Also while roster scaling PvE was a thing often, I would have to use boosted 3* when everything scaled to a few champed 4*. Sure vaulting reduces time for champing the latest but it drastically decreases time to get the vaulted ones.  

And now in only ~700 perfect LT pulls (with zero 5*s), you can easily cover all the 4s! You know, provided you also have 20M some iso floating around as well. Everyone will be caught up in a few weeks, right?

There's really no such thing as "caught up" in any system. If player B starts 3 years after player A, then B's roster will always be behind A's (short of whaling), unless A stops playing for 2-3 years

With character levels capped at 125, no super rewarding CL 9/10 and the very slow 5 star rate people are catching up faster than 2 year players are pulling away. Now newer players will never completely catch older players but closing the distance is possible.

Character levels aren't capped at 125, SHIELD Rank is. Those are two entirely different things. And shield rank isn't a good indicator for roster strength anyway since it can be so easily inflated. 

But some people would  be shield rank 150 by now and how much more iso would they have to champ more characters.

Hyposphere6234

I was pretty vocal about being against the whole Vaulting concept and acknowledge that I could have expressed it in healthier and more constructive ways. It's a little frustrating when you've acknowledged and accepted that everything results in RNG and then are told that the odds for the majority of the characters have been removed almost entirely by involving RNG x reduced odds of favourable RNG.

I saw some benefits for new players by restricting a number of covers available to them, if that was the selling point then it would have had less of a damaging effect as it would have been a target for newer players and their ability to have more of a stress-free environment to play the game.

I would have supported Vaulting if it had been presented and handled better, the way it was presented was that it was a means of getting all the new stuff faster and easier while having a happy medium with upgrading the older characters.

With Quake as my sole bonus character, I pulled two covers from BH in three months, since vaulting ended I've pulled a further five. Vaulting would have been fine if it was marketed better, BH would have been more widely accepted if it wasn't a good idea executed horrendously.

smkspy

Thanks to unvaulting, at the rate I'm not pulling yondo, vulture, and mockingbird I will be able to champ my last 6 max - covered 4 stars lol.