intended/unintended result of vaulting?

2

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  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
    Wumpushunter said:
    You only get 4 star progression in 7 or 8. Not currently where I can compete for anything but top 100. 


    So what?

    Don't go for placement if you're missing a required char, go to 7 or 8 and forget about placement.
    ISO and 4* from progression >>>>> anything you'll get in 6 for placement.

  • NewMcG
    NewMcG Posts: 368 Mover and Shaker
    edited August 2017
    Wumpushunter said:
    You only get 4 star progression in 7 or 8. Not currently where I can compete for anything but top 100. 
    Well, then you weigh the ability to relatively easily land a 4* from progression and go for top 100, or you go for the lower level placement rewards. If you choose the latter, then you have decided to avoid one of the easiest paths to a guaranteed 4* cover.

    Also, if you're in an event where you don't have the required 4* character, then your chances of any kind of decent placement when you don't have the required character for the WHOLE event are even worse. So why aren't you playing up to grab the certain 4*? 
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    Lucifier said:
    @Dragon_Nexus 

    oh and i think now it is changed too, latest 12 4* you have 3x more chance to get than the rest of 4* (but we have chance to get any 4* from LT or CP), but i think you already know that.

    My memory is a little fuzzy as I already had all the vaulted characters, but couldn't you still have BH the ones that you didn't  have to at least get one cover eventually? 

    Yeah, you're chances are higher to pull an older 4, but now you're  stuck with low covered 4s that you'll start complaining that you cannot finish.

    easiest fix could have been a rotating set of 4 or 5 vaulted fours in the token pool.

    Now we're right back to same problem we had before with dilution of building 4s, even newer ones.

    I have yet to receive a mockingbird or yondu and I pull a lot of LTs. 


    That's your real reason for unvaulting, not to help you gain better access to those old 4s, but to entice more spending on the news 4s to complete them faster.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    New McG said:
    Wumpushunter said:
    In the months of vaulting I gained 1 single vaulted cover in 4 star and missed playing multiple DDQ and story events for not having those characters. Vaulting ended just recently  and I have now multiple covers in 7 ex vaulted characters in 4 star and if vaulting had lasted only a few more months, I would have probably  quit.
    You missed playing story events, yet if you played them even halfway, you'd get the 4* character in progression... *mind blown*
    Yeah, if you played in a high enough clearance level, which generally takes already having the said 4* character. S/He is talking about rostering a first cover and from other posts can't compete in CL 7 or 8. Nice try, move along!! *mind blown*
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    Milk Jugz said:
    New McG said:
    Wumpushunter said:
    In the months of vaulting I gained 1 single vaulted cover in 4 star and missed playing multiple DDQ and story events for not having those characters. Vaulting ended just recently  and I have now multiple covers in 7 ex vaulted characters in 4 star and if vaulting had lasted only a few more months, I would have probably  quit.
    You missed playing story events, yet if you played them even halfway, you'd get the 4* character in progression... *mind blown*
    Yeah, if you played in a high enough clearance level, which generally takes already having the said 4* character. S/He is talking about rostering a first cover and from other posts can't compete in CL 7 or 8. Nice try, move along!! *mind blown*
    You can easily obtain the required 4* cover from progression in SCL7/8, before the last day in most cases, if you want. SCL7 definitely does not require champed 4*s to get enough points to get that far in the progression.
  • Lucifier
    Lucifier Posts: 244 Tile Toppler
    Milk Jugz said:
    New McG said:
    Wumpushunter said:
    In the months of vaulting I gained 1 single vaulted cover in 4 star and missed playing multiple DDQ and story events for not having those characters. Vaulting ended just recently  and I have now multiple covers in 7 ex vaulted characters in 4 star and if vaulting had lasted only a few more months, I would have probably  quit.
    You missed playing story events, yet if you played them even halfway, you'd get the 4* character in progression... *mind blown*
    Yeah, if you played in a high enough clearance level, which generally takes already having the said 4* character. S/He is talking about rostering a first cover and from other posts can't compete in CL 7 or 8. Nice try, move along!! *mind blown*
    i end up in top 50 (in CL7) without having the 4* cover (as a start, then i get it in 2nd day and use it), sometimes i end up in top20, if my bracket was not very competitive for top20, but i can not end up in top10 even if from start i have the required 4* char (because top10 always very competitive, and my roaster is weak to compete with them).
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    Jaedenkaal said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    New McG said:
    Wumpushunter said:
    In the months of vaulting I gained 1 single vaulted cover in 4 star and missed playing multiple DDQ and story events for not having those characters. Vaulting ended just recently  and I have now multiple covers in 7 ex vaulted characters in 4 star and if vaulting had lasted only a few more months, I would have probably  quit.
    You missed playing story events, yet if you played them even halfway, you'd get the 4* character in progression... *mind blown*
    Yeah, if you played in a high enough clearance level, which generally takes already having the said 4* character. S/He is talking about rostering a first cover and from other posts can't compete in CL 7 or 8. Nice try, move along!! *mind blown*
    You can easily obtain the required 4* cover from progression in SCL7/8, before the last day in most cases, if you want. SCL7 definitely does not require champed 4*s to get enough points to get that far in the progression.
    But it still requires you to be able to beat the nodes, if you can't do that you can't get progression (Or am I misunderstanding how progression works??). Has everyone forgotten what it's like to have a young roster?? I know I had most of the available 4* rostered, some fully covered while I was still working on the 3*. When I finished them I was able to champ 3 4* right away (well after iso hoarding for it) and still had a few more fully covered. There is nothing wrong with wanting to roster all the characters, even if they won't be playable right away.
  • NewMcG
    NewMcG Posts: 368 Mover and Shaker
    Milk Jugz said:
    But it still requires you to be able to beat the nodes, if you can't do that you can't get progression (Or am I misunderstanding how progression works??). Has everyone forgotten what it's like to have a young roster?? I know I had most of the available 4* rostered, some fully covered while I was still working on the 3*. When I finished them I was able to champ 3 4* right away (well after iso hoarding for it) and still had a few more fully covered. There is nothing wrong with wanting to roster all the characters, even if they won't be playable right away.
    Except that he's complaining about vaulting, which still had roster based scaling for the entire time it was in place, minus the SCL-based tests, so no matter what level he played in, he was fighting the same stuff...
  • Wumpushunter
    Wumpushunter Posts: 627 Critical Contributor
    AND  losing 100 of Hp, Iso and 3 star covers coming in top 5 in CL 6 to winning an elite token in CL 7. Trade off at worth it, bruh.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    Milk Jugz said:
    Jaedenkaal said:
    You can easily obtain the required 4* cover from progression in SCL7/8, before the last day in most cases, if you want. SCL7 definitely does not require champed 4*s to get enough points to get that far in the progression.
    But it still requires you to be able to beat the nodes, if you can't do that you can't get progression (Or am I misunderstanding how progression works??). Has everyone forgotten what it's like to have a young roster?? I know I had most of the available 4* rostered, some fully covered while I was still working on the 3*. When I finished them I was able to champ 3 4* right away (well after iso hoarding for it) and still had a few more fully covered. There is nothing wrong with wanting to roster all the characters, even if they won't be playable right away.
    You have to be able to beat -some- nodes enough times to get enough points over the course of the event to get the 4* progression cover, yes. In SCL 7 the highest level opponents you should face will be 245, and that's if you play the nodes 5 times. If you only play them 2-3 times (enough to get you the 4* by the end) the highest opponet you'll face is apparently level 205, easily beatable by championed 3*s
  • Pinko_McFly
    Pinko_McFly Posts: 282 Mover and Shaker
    Based on what we saw last Thursday, I am going to guess that vaulting will be back soon (probably in 1 week 6 days) but only in the classic store.
    Those new odds seemed a little two well worked out to be accidental.
    I did not look at what was in the legendary store as I was too busy scrambling to pull classics. Were the latest 12 in there or only vintage 4*s? To me it would be better if those were only vintage. Sure the 10% rate sucked but I'll take that for a big increase on classic 5* rates.
  • KC_Hammer
    KC_Hammer Posts: 84 Match Maker
    Jaedenkaal said:
    You can easily obtain the required 4* cover from progression in SCL7/8, before the last day in most cases, if you want. SCL7 definitely does not require champed 4*s to get enough points to get that far in the progression.
    The problem with that is having one cover of a 4* rostered with progression rewards being the only way to get more and the required 4* was not a vaulted character 2 times out of 3 means that getting that character to a reasonable level was practically unattainable. Bonus hero procs so infrequently that its not really worth counting for someone in the 3* to 4* transition. 

    Not being able to get characters to a reasonable level often meant not having more than 1 boosted 4* in PvP. Also while roster scaling PvE was a thing often, I would have to use boosted 3* when everything scaled to a few champed 4*. Sure vaulting reduces time for champing the latest but it drastically decreases time to get the vaulted ones.  
  • NewMcG
    NewMcG Posts: 368 Mover and Shaker
    KC_Hammer said:
    Jaedenkaal said:
    You can easily obtain the required 4* cover from progression in SCL7/8, before the last day in most cases, if you want. SCL7 definitely does not require champed 4*s to get enough points to get that far in the progression.
    The problem with that is having one cover of a 4* rostered with progression rewards being the only way to get more and the required 4* was not a vaulted character 2 times out of 3 means that getting that character to a reasonable level was practically unattainable. Bonus hero procs so infrequently that its not really worth counting for someone in the 3* to 4* transition. 

    Not being able to get characters to a reasonable level often meant not having more than 1 boosted 4* in PvP. Also while roster scaling PvE was a thing often, I would have to use boosted 3* when everything scaled to a few champed 4*. Sure vaulting reduces time for champing the latest but it drastically decreases time to get the vaulted ones.  
    And now in only ~700 perfect LT pulls (with zero 5*s), you can easily cover all the 4s! You know, provided you also have 20M some iso floating around as well. Everyone will be caught up in a few weeks, right?
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    New McG said:
    KC_Hammer said:
    Jaedenkaal said:
    You can easily obtain the required 4* cover from progression in SCL7/8, before the last day in most cases, if you want. SCL7 definitely does not require champed 4*s to get enough points to get that far in the progression.
    The problem with that is having one cover of a 4* rostered with progression rewards being the only way to get more and the required 4* was not a vaulted character 2 times out of 3 means that getting that character to a reasonable level was practically unattainable. Bonus hero procs so infrequently that its not really worth counting for someone in the 3* to 4* transition. 

    Not being able to get characters to a reasonable level often meant not having more than 1 boosted 4* in PvP. Also while roster scaling PvE was a thing often, I would have to use boosted 3* when everything scaled to a few champed 4*. Sure vaulting reduces time for champing the latest but it drastically decreases time to get the vaulted ones.  
    And now in only ~700 perfect LT pulls (with zero 5*s), you can easily cover all the 4s! You know, provided you also have 20M some iso floating around as well. Everyone will be caught up in a few weeks, right?
    There's really no such thing as "caught up" in any system. If player B starts 3 years after player A, then B's roster will always be behind A's (short of whaling), unless A stops playing for 2-3 years
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    Pinko McFly said:
    Based on what we saw last Thursday, I am going to guess that vaulting will be back soon (probably in 1 week 6 days) but only in the classic store.
    Those new odds seemed a little two well worked out to be accidental.
    I did not look at what was in the legendary store as I was too busy scrambling to pull classics. Were the latest 12 in there or only vintage 4*s? To me it would be better if those were only vintage. Sure the 10% rate sucked but I'll take that for a big increase on classic 5* rates.
    IIRC, the only thing that changed on Latest was the 5* draw rate, all the characters were still in there. I agree with your assessment though, that change was not just accidental. Something has already been drawn up for those odds and the accident was it was released before intention. Going to the devs sentiments that they don't want to encourage hoarding the changes on both vaults would certainly discourage hoarding. It will take far more pulls to cover the 3 Latest at 10% odds, and at 25% odds in Classic, I would live there..... Still have legendary tokens to get covers from Latest, but my CP would all go to Classic.
  • NewMcG
    NewMcG Posts: 368 Mover and Shaker
    edited August 2017
    Milk Jugz said:
    Pinko McFly said:
    Based on what we saw last Thursday, I am going to guess that vaulting will be back soon (probably in 1 week 6 days) but only in the classic store.
    Those new odds seemed a little two well worked out to be accidental.
    I did not look at what was in the legendary store as I was too busy scrambling to pull classics. Were the latest 12 in there or only vintage 4*s? To me it would be better if those were only vintage. Sure the 10% rate sucked but I'll take that for a big increase on classic 5* rates.
    IIRC, the only thing that changed on Latest was the 5* draw rate, all the characters were still in there. I agree with your assessment though, that change was not just accidental. Something has already been drawn up for those odds and the accident was it was released before intention. Going to the devs sentiments that they don't want to encourage hoarding the changes on both vaults would certainly discourage hoarding. It will take far more pulls to cover the 3 Latest at 10% odds, and at 25% odds in Classic, I would live there..... Still have legendary tokens to get covers from Latest, but my CP would all go to Classic.
    You recall incorrectly. The Classics only had the latest 12 with the 25% rate.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    New McG said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    Pinko McFly said:
    Based on what we saw last Thursday, I am going to guess that vaulting will be back soon (probably in 1 week 6 days) but only in the classic store.
    Those new odds seemed a little two well worked out to be accidental.
    I did not look at what was in the legendary store as I was too busy scrambling to pull classics. Were the latest 12 in there or only vintage 4*s? To me it would be better if those were only vintage. Sure the 10% rate sucked but I'll take that for a big increase on classic 5* rates.
    IIRC, the only thing that changed on Latest was the 5* draw rate, all the characters were still in there. I agree with your assessment though, that change was not just accidental. Something has already been drawn up for those odds and the accident was it was released before intention. Going to the devs sentiments that they don't want to encourage hoarding the changes on both vaults would certainly discourage hoarding. It will take far more pulls to cover the 3 Latest at 10% odds, and at 25% odds in Classic, I would live there..... Still have legendary tokens to get covers from Latest, but my CP would all go to Classic.
    You recall incorrectly. The Classics only had the latest 12.
    Read my post again.....
  • NewMcG
    NewMcG Posts: 368 Mover and Shaker
    Milk Jugz said:
    There's really no such thing as "caught up" in any system. If player B starts 3 years after player A, then B's roster will always be behind A's (short of whaling), unless A stops playing for 2-3 years
    When vaulting started, I believe I had one (possibly two) of the latest 12 champed. The week before un-vaulting happened, I had all 12 latest 4*s champed, as Vulture was about to enter the pool. I had reached zero waste on my pulls. In the subsequent month-plus, I've gotten a whopping two covers for Vulture, and one was a BH draw. In the time vaulting was in place, half a dozen heroes flew past the level that my highest 4* champ (IMHB) had reached, and he was champed the day the champion system went into the game. One of the two systems led to useful characters at a useful level, while the other, diluted pool makes for slow progress across the board.

    So who are the theoretical people who are being hurt by vaulting, if they'll never get "caught up" regardless of system? The mythical ones who will somehow be content with a whole bunch of poorly covered, lower tier old characters? (In the place of well-covered newer ones that can actually be champed.)
  • NewMcG
    NewMcG Posts: 368 Mover and Shaker
    Milk Jugz said:
    New McG said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    Pinko McFly said:
    Based on what we saw last Thursday, I am going to guess that vaulting will be back soon (probably in 1 week 6 days) but only in the classic store.
    Those new odds seemed a little two well worked out to be accidental.
    I did not look at what was in the legendary store as I was too busy scrambling to pull classics. Were the latest 12 in there or only vintage 4*s? To me it would be better if those were only vintage. Sure the 10% rate sucked but I'll take that for a big increase on classic 5* rates.
    IIRC, the only thing that changed on Latest was the 5* draw rate, all the characters were still in there. I agree with your assessment though, that change was not just accidental. Something has already been drawn up for those odds and the accident was it was released before intention. Going to the devs sentiments that they don't want to encourage hoarding the changes on both vaults would certainly discourage hoarding. It will take far more pulls to cover the 3 Latest at 10% odds, and at 25% odds in Classic, I would live there..... Still have legendary tokens to get covers from Latest, but my CP would all go to Classic.
    You recall incorrectly. The Classics only had the latest 12.
    Read my post again.....
    Yep. I read it backwards.

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