Token Pull Exploit - CURRENT

2

Comments

  • Alsmir
    Alsmir Posts: 508 Critical Contributor
    Latest exploit, when tokens had increased 5* rates, was announced on these forums, by players. People open their hoards to abuse it and nothing was done. Not even a bloody warning to those who spread the info and adviced to use it, because it won't last long.

    Fairness? what's that?
  • Skrofa
    Skrofa Posts: 388 Mover and Shaker
    Alsmir said:
    Latest exploit, when tokens had increased 5* rates, was announced on these forums, by players. People open their hoards to abuse it and nothing was done. Not even a bloody warning to those who spread the info and adviced to use it, because it won't last long.

    Fairness? what's that?
    You seem to just repeat this when you have the chance and just ignore any other argument.
    Well... Just once more.
    Exploit: jumping through hoops to get something more than the developer intended.
    What happened last week: odds changed. The guy who opened the thread was even quite annoyed (I think!). A lot of people felt that those odds were favourable to them and proceeded to open their hoards. A lot of other people did not even know about the change (not everyone lives in this forum), and still opened.

    Now, stop being bitter and move on!
  • mr_X
    mr_X Posts: 375 Mover and Shaker
    Whether you employ a distinction between actively using means to take advantage of an exploit or taking advantage of unintentional favourable odds...The end result is the same faster progress in the game than you are meant to have.

     This in effect is a progress nerf to other players who never took part in any of these loopholes. Who now have to compete against others who got a leg up. I personally know players who benefited from both earlier exploits and the odds glitch and like the original poster am getting pretty tired of this and how nothing ever happens.

    Definitely conveys the message that cheating is a viable strategy as nothing will ever happen to you for doing it and makes me feel stupid for still spending money on this game in this circumstances. 

  • Alsmir
    Alsmir Posts: 508 Critical Contributor
    Skrofa said:
    Alsmir said:
    Latest exploit, when tokens had increased 5* rates, was announced on these forums, by players. People open their hoards to abuse it and nothing was done. Not even a bloody warning to those who spread the info and adviced to use it, because it won't last long.

    Fairness? what's that?
    You seem to just repeat this when you have the chance and just ignore any other argument.
    Well... Just once more.
    Exploit: jumping through hoops to get something more than the developer intended.
    What happened last week: odds changed. The guy who opened the thread was even quite annoyed (I think!). A lot of people felt that those odds were favourable to them and proceeded to open their hoards. A lot of other people did not even know about the change (not everyone lives in this forum), and still opened.

    Now, stop being bitter and move on!
    Did you even read your own post?
    1. It was not intended - hence the hotfix
    2. Even a quote from previous thread:
    Orion said:
    farlus said:
    Anthony posted in Discord the stores were updated in error. No telling if that means it's a bug or just the timing was before they intended to actually make the change.
    I guess if you want Classics, then you'd better pull now before the odds so back down to 15%!
    Yup, advocating to take advantage of an exploit.

    No actions taken.

  • Dayv
    Dayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    Alsmir said:
    Latest exploit, when tokens had increased 5* rates, was announced on these forums, by players. People open their hoards to abuse it and nothing was done. Not even a bloody warning to those who spread the info and adviced to use it, because it won't last long.
    The increased 5* pull rate on Classics wasn't an exploit, it was lucky timing.  Players were not using any unintended techniques, strange behaviors, or inappropriate levels of access to the game to cheat the system.  They saw that the drop rates for tokens were clearly listed as higher than before on some and lower on others, and decided to take advantage of it.  That's no different than goin to a store as quick as you can because they advertised a surprisingly low price on a product you wanted.  You might suspect it was an error, but most people will still take that deal of the store is legally bound to honor it.

    This isn't like opening your save file for some game in a hex editor and tweaking numbers until you find the one that gives you a bunch of money.  (This is not an example of an MPQ exploit, it's an old and generic computer RPG one).

    There was a PvP event a while ago where veteran players got matched up against newbies.  Were those players exploiting the game by taking the matches offered to them, or was the system malfunctioning?  Should they have opted not to play that event, since they couldn't force the computer to give them the behavior they suspect was intended?
  • Dayv
    Dayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    (And no, I didn't crack open a hoard for the increased drop rate.  I don't hoard.)
  • ZamWiesel
    ZamWiesel Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
    The increased pull rate was also available to every single player in the game who opened a token at the time. Not just to certain ones with top secret information on how to gain BH every pull. If the BH exploit was common knowledge to every player and every player took advantage of it, it would have received a hot fix as well. 
  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,976 Chairperson of the Boards
    @The rockett

    While I understand yours and many others frustration with the way exploits and cheating are handled, I am in no position to say what else can be done beyond what I have already stated. With that said, cheating is something both brigby and the mod squad take seriously but there is only so much we can do on our end. 

    And just to be clear, civil and constructive critique is not a rule breaking offense. Despite the persistent belief, forum feedback is taken into account. It may not always play the deciding hand but nevertheless it has on occasion changed the way things are done.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dayv said:
    Alsmir said:
    Latest exploit, when tokens had increased 5* rates, was announced on these forums, by players. People open their hoards to abuse it and nothing was done. Not even a bloody warning to those who spread the info and adviced to use it, because it won't last long.
    The increased 5* pull rate on Classics wasn't an exploit, it was lucky timing.  Players were not using any unintended techniques, strange behaviors, or inappropriate levels of access to the game to cheat the system.  They saw that the drop rates for tokens were clearly listed as higher than before on some and lower on others, and decided to take advantage of it.  That's no different than goin to a store as quick as you can because they advertised a surprisingly low price on a product you wanted.  You might suspect it was an error, but most people will still take that deal of the store is legally bound to honor it.
    One year on Black Friday Amazon accidentally listed a certain model flat screen TV for like 50 cents, they sold out in a few minutes...
  • Skrofa
    Skrofa Posts: 388 Mover and Shaker
    Alsmir said:
    Skrofa said:
    Alsmir said:
    Latest exploit, when tokens had increased 5* rates, was announced on these forums, by players. People open their hoards to abuse it and nothing was done. Not even a bloody warning to those who spread the info and adviced to use it, because it won't last long.

    Fairness? what's that?
    You seem to just repeat this when you have the chance and just ignore any other argument.
    Well... Just once more.
    Exploit: jumping through hoops to get something more than the developer intended.
    What happened last week: odds changed. The guy who opened the thread was even quite annoyed (I think!). A lot of people felt that those odds were favourable to them and proceeded to open their hoards. A lot of other people did not even know about the change (not everyone lives in this forum), and still opened.

    Now, stop being bitter and move on!
    Did you even read your own post?
    1. It was not intended - hence the hotfix
    2. Even a quote from previous thread:
    Orion said:
    farlus said:
    Anthony posted in Discord the stores were updated in error. No telling if that means it's a bug or just the timing was before they intended to actually make the change.
    I guess if you want Classics, then you'd better pull now before the odds so back down to 15%!
    Yup, advocating to take advantage of an exploit.

    No actions taken.

    You can choose to understand the difference between a malevolent exploit and good timing. Or you can choose not to.

    Rigjt now, I choose to not continue discussing this with you
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    @fight4thedream I have no doubt that you and the mob squad are frustrated about this but the issue remains that nothing was done yet. So my question remains the same. If you are not satisfied with service at a restaurant/store/etc, and the person you bring it to does not give you the response you want, you escalate the issue.
    My question is this, who is the next in line to escalate this issue to since it seems that the mod squad and Brigby are not getting anywhere with the powers that be?  Is it Demi?  If so, who at Demi do we contact?  As I said before we know some players have direct lines to Demi due to money spent. We also know that they are on Discord, which I am not on yet.   Would that be the right outlet?  
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,825 Chairperson of the Boards
    The rockett said
    We also know that they are on Discord, which I am not on yet.   Would that be the right outlet?  
    Discord is a player discussion venue.  Demi/D3 occasionally comment/converse, but mostly in a fun way (trading gifs etc).  It is not an insider VIP chat.  It's open to all to trade strategies, have fun, etc.

    I would say that this forum and/or CS are the primary ways to voice concerns.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,967 Chairperson of the Boards
    The rockett said:
    @fight4thedream I have no doubt that you and the mob squad are frustrated about this but the issue remains that nothing was done yet. So my question remains the same. If you are not satisfied with service at a restaurant/store/etc, and the person you bring it to does not give you the response you want, you escalate the issue.
    My question is this, who is the next in line to escalate this issue to since it seems that the mod squad and Brigby are not getting anywhere with the powers that be?  Is it Demi?  If so, who at Demi do we contact?  As I said before we know some players have direct lines to Demi due to money spent. We also know that they are on Discord, which I am not on yet.   Would that be the right outlet?  
    Or you could stop shopping at the store, eating at the restaurant, playing the game, and generally take your time and money elsewhere?
  • Alsmir
    Alsmir Posts: 508 Critical Contributor
    Dayv said:
    Alsmir said:
    Latest exploit, when tokens had increased 5* rates, was announced on these forums, by players. People open their hoards to abuse it and nothing was done. Not even a bloody warning to those who spread the info and adviced to use it, because it won't last long.
    The increased 5* pull rate on Classics wasn't an exploit, it was lucky timing.  Players were not using any unintended techniques, strange behaviors, or inappropriate levels of access to the game to cheat the system.  They saw that the drop rates for tokens were clearly listed as higher than before on some and lower on others, and decided to take advantage of it.  That's no different than goin to a store as quick as you can because they advertised a surprisingly low price on a product you wanted.  You might suspect it was an error, but most people will still take that deal of the store is legally bound to honor it.

    This isn't like opening your save file for some game in a hex editor and tweaking numbers until you find the one that gives you a bunch of money.  (This is not an example of an MPQ exploit, it's an old and generic computer RPG one).

    There was a PvP event a while ago where veteran players got matched up against newbies.  Were those players exploiting the game by taking the matches offered to them, or was the system malfunctioning?  Should they have opted not to play that event, since they couldn't force the computer to give them the behavior they suspect was intended?
    I'm talking about players that were aware that it was intended (after devs announcement) yet advised others to abuse the exploit or used it themselves. Was I really not clear every single time?
    Not the random fellas who just randomly used better tokens.
  • Justice Jacks
    Justice Jacks Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
    The rockett said:
    My question is this, who is the next in line to escalate this issue to since it seems that the mod squad and Brigby are not getting anywhere with the powers that be?  Is it Demi?  If so, who at Demi do we contact?  
    As a Marvel licensee myself, my guess is the fastest way to get these dealt with is to speak with their licensing group (and, for an even bigger bang, the legacy Disney additions to that group) and let them know what is going on, that the developers know about it, and that it's tarnishing the brand in many player's eyes.  If you're a Marvel Insider, let them know that and let them know you're thinking about pulling that membership because Marvel isn't living up to the quality product(s) you expect from them.

    While you're wondering who at D3/Demi to contact, I guarantee the licensing team has that number for you.  
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    Alsmir said:
    Dayv said:
    Alsmir said:
    Latest exploit, when tokens had increased 5* rates, was announced on these forums, by players. People open their hoards to abuse it and nothing was done. Not even a bloody warning to those who spread the info and adviced to use it, because it won't last long.
    The increased 5* pull rate on Classics wasn't an exploit, it was lucky timing.  Players were not using any unintended techniques, strange behaviors, or inappropriate levels of access to the game to cheat the system.  They saw that the drop rates for tokens were clearly listed as higher than before on some and lower on others, and decided to take advantage of it.  That's no different than goin to a store as quick as you can because they advertised a surprisingly low price on a product you wanted.  You might suspect it was an error, but most people will still take that deal of the store is legally bound to honor it.

    This isn't like opening your save file for some game in a hex editor and tweaking numbers until you find the one that gives you a bunch of money.  (This is not an example of an MPQ exploit, it's an old and generic computer RPG one).

    There was a PvP event a while ago where veteran players got matched up against newbies.  Were those players exploiting the game by taking the matches offered to them, or was the system malfunctioning?  Should they have opted not to play that event, since they couldn't force the computer to give them the behavior they suspect was intended?
    I'm talking about players that were aware that it was intended (after devs announcement) yet advised others to abuse the exploit or used it themselves. Was I really not clear every single time?
    Not the random fellas who just randomly used better tokens.
    Even still, they weren't manipulating anything to get the better odds. Just struck while the iron was hot. It is not cheating to take advantage of what is being offered to you. And on top of that, how does D3 differential between those who knew the odds were unintentional and those who didn't know? Only a small percentage of players are even on the forums!!
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
    Cheating is not taken seriously.  Please don't insult the playerbase by feeding that boilerplate stuff here.  fight4thedream said:
    @The rockett

    While I understand yours and many others frustration with the way exploits and cheating are handled, I am in no position to say what else can be done beyond what I have already stated. With that said, cheating is something both brigby and the mod squad take seriously but there is only so much we can do on our end. 

    And just to be clear, civil and constructive critique is not a rule breaking offense. Despite the persistent belief, forum feedback is taken into account. It may not always play the deciding hand but nevertheless it has on occasion changed the way things are done.

  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
    Alsmir said:
    I'm talking about players that were aware that it was intended (after devs announcement) yet advised others to abuse the exploit or used it themselves. Was I really not clear every single time?
    Not the random fellas who just randomly used better tokens.
    If D3 or Demi viewed purchasing tokens while the odds were (mistakenly) not what they wanted them to be, that announcement you're referring to likely would have included instructions to the player base NOT to purchase tokens until the hotfix was pushed.

    Of course, the very ridiculousness of such an imperative statement, and the complete unenforceable-ness of it (not to mention the massive amount of the playerbase who, as mentioned many times, do not view these forums) is precisely the reason they did not make such a statement, and the reason why it cannot be considered an exploit, and the reason why nothing will be done about it.

    It's not much different than if they'd accidentally pushed a Called Shot damage change, boosting it by a factor of 1000. Players who noticed, and who used Cyclops before it was hotfixed, would not be 'exploiting' the game in a malicious way. Yes, they are taking advantage of something that was probably not intended by the development team, which is fall under the definition of "exploiting" in many languages, I'm sure, but not "an exploit" in the manner being used here. 

    In both cases, the players were using an intended method ("Step 1: Open a token," or "Step 1: Fire Called Shot") to achieve an expected (although ultimately undesirable, for the devs) outcome. (Stated, although weird, token odds or stated, although huge, power damage).

    This is contrasted with actual token exploits, where the players are using a non-supported method ([insert clearly unintended hoop-jumping here]) to achieve an unexpected AND undesirable (for devs) outcome, namely, greater player control over contents of tokens, frequency of bonus heroes, faster-wins, more points, etc...

    ***Removed discussion of exploit - Ducky
    Edit: My bad. Hypothetical exploit example is now even more hypothetical.
  • Daiches
    Daiches Posts: 1,252 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
    Jaedenkaal said:
    Alsmir said:
    I'm talking about players that were aware that it was intended (after devs announcement) yet advised others to abuse the exploit or used it themselves. Was I really not clear every single time?
    Not the random fellas who just randomly used better tokens.
    If D3 or Demi viewed purchasing tokens while the odds were (mistakenly) not what they wanted them to be, that announcement you're referring to likely would have included instructions to the player base NOT to purchase tokens until the hotfix was pushed.

    Of course, the very ridiculousness of such an imperative statement, and the complete unenforceable-ness of it (not to mention the massive amount of the playerbase who, as mentioned many times, do not view these forums) is precisely the reason they did not make such a statement, and the reason why it cannot be considered an exploit, and the reason why nothing will be done about it.

    It's not much different than if they'd accidentally pushed a Called Shot damage change, boosting it by a factor of 1000. Players who noticed, and who used Cyclops before it was hotfixed, would not be 'exploiting' the game in a malicious way. Yes, they are taking advantage of something that was probably not intended by the development team, which is fall under the definition of "exploiting" in many languages, I'm sure, but not "an exploit" in the manner being used here. 

    In both cases, the players were using an intended method ("Step 1: Open a token," or "Step 1: Fire Called Shot") to achieve an expected (although ultimately undesirable, for the devs) outcome. (Stated, although weird, token odds or stated, although huge, power damage).

    This is contrasted with actual token exploits, where the players are using a non-supported method (***nope***) to achieve an unexpected AND undesirable (for devs) outcome, namely, greater player control over contents of tokens, frequency of bonus heroes, etc...
    A more accurate example than the hypothetical Cyclops would be the 2 months that Vision was broken where his Blue boosted all damage from any source including IF attack tiles. He went from unusable to 90% usage rate by 2-3-4star transitions for 2 months to unused again after fix.

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