Koth...Nerf him

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Comments

  • Corn_Noodles
    Corn_Noodles Posts: 477 Mover and Shaker
    Kinesia said:
    Amusement. My communication skills hail from BBS times and Usenet. We used to _need_ them for emphasis. I still find them very useful.

    May ANSI be with you.
  • Gormhaus
    Gormhaus Posts: 190 Tile Toppler
    This is a good thread with lots of good ideas. Koth is an interesting pw to play and to play against. It is just his frequency that makes my eyes roll.
  • Furordraco
    Furordraco Posts: 142 Tile Toppler
    you see him a lot? I actually wondered why i havent been seeing him around a lot. With all those Gideon of the trials and elspeths that hump me
  • AresOmega
    AresOmega Posts: 75 Match Maker
    Elspeth has been plaguing my nightmares in TG lately. Does everyone who has her also have Gideon's Defeat? And why does no one build standard decks for her? I can almost forecast the deck I'm going to face when I see her as an opponent. Gideon's Defeat, Corrupted Grafstone and Traveler's Amulet seem to be in every deck.
  • Furordraco
    Furordraco Posts: 142 Tile Toppler
    Gideon's defeat everywhere :disappointed:
  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Furordraco said:
    Gideon's defeat everywhere :disappointed:
    We've reached critical mass of that effect. I feel like the developers were being a little lazy with card implementation between Gideon's Defeat, Farm // Market, and Sandblast all in this same set. Add on top of that you can put in Silverstrike and Gideon's Reproach for Training Grounds and you can really troll out your opponent in white.
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    Farm to market and sandblast have felt underwhelming to me so far.

    What am I missing? 
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ohboy said:
    Farm to market and sandblast have felt underwhelming to me so far.

    What am I missing? 


    Sandblast is underwhelming and really only good for slowing down cheap units early in the game. Later on it is more discard fodder than anything. As for Farm to Market, I've used this card usually in conjunction with other cards that are more effective as a discard to the graveyard than it is to cast. I.e. Grind to Dust, Reason to Believe, Eternalize & Embalm units all while putting up a front to destroy any incoming units. It's certainly a strategic card as you could just as easily hose yourself if you don't build for the respawning activation gems for Farm to Market forcing you to discard two cards you wished to keep and draw two more in place of them. 

  • ElfNeedsFood
    ElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    Ohboy said:
    Farm to market and sandblast have felt underwhelming to me so far.

    What am I missing? 
    Farm is also useful as:

    1.) A standard blue true kill card.  Frog only mostly kills. 
    2.) A kill card for events with "cast fewer than X spells" objectives. 
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ohboy said:
    Farm to market and sandblast have felt underwhelming to me so far.

    What am I missing? 
    Market is good with Reason/Believe and/or Grind/Dust.
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kinesia said:
    Ohboy said:
    Where did you get this weird idea that all complaints are unreasonable? Being a complainer and being a reasonable person are not opposite ends of a spectrum. 
    .....

    Anyway, as a game developer... What exactly is the mental process behind identifying a Planeswalker as too uncompetitive to play in major events and then singling him out to nerf further? 


    This makes him very different from Kiora which is unbalanced in the _opposite_ direction. _I_ can make unbeatable Kiora decks but the AI can't play them at all, they are easy for other people to beat.
    With Koth, if I make something that _I_ will win with there's a good chance the AI will be totally fine with it too.




    Your post is good, but I have to say, your experiences with Kiora seem to be an aberration. Perhaps you're thinking of cycling Kiora? Because yes, the AI cannot play cycling. However, from the get-go, Kiora has been one of the most frustrating decks to play against, whether it's Hydra, Baral, Seasons Past, Exert, endless Elementals, Crush, etc.
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    madwren said:
    Kinesia said:
    Ohboy said:
    Where did you get this weird idea that all complaints are unreasonable? Being a complainer and being a reasonable person are not opposite ends of a spectrum. 
    .....

    Anyway, as a game developer... What exactly is the mental process behind identifying a Planeswalker as too uncompetitive to play in major events and then singling him out to nerf further? 


    This makes him very different from Kiora which is unbalanced in the _opposite_ direction. _I_ can make unbeatable Kiora decks but the AI can't play them at all, they are easy for other people to beat.
    With Koth, if I make something that _I_ will win with there's a good chance the AI will be totally fine with it too.




    Your post is good, but I have to say, your experiences with Kiora seem to be an aberration. Perhaps you're thinking of cycling Kiora? Because yes, the AI cannot play cycling. However, from the get-go, Kiora has been one of the most frustrating decks to play against, whether it's Hydra, Baral, Seasons Past, Exert, endless Elementals, Crush, etc.

    I've mostly only played _against_ her with cycling. But, yeah I've definitely played around with a bunch of other broken strategies. Her "creature toolbox" makes her incredibly diverse.
    Hmmm, that does remind me, I've seen non-cycling versions of her in Shadows with Imrakul and stuff, but they are only slightly annoying most of the time.
    I wasn't playing much when those blocks were _really_ happening, I've made the elemental deck but I haven't come across it in the wild.
  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor
    Kinesia said:

    I've mostly only played _against_ her with cycling. But, yeah I've definitely played around with a bunch of other broken strategies. Her "creature toolbox" makes her incredibly diverse.
    Hmmm, that does remind me, I've seen non-cycling versions of her in Shadows with Imrakul and stuff, but they are only slightly annoying most of the time.
    I wasn't playing much when those blocks were _really_ happening, I've made the elemental deck but I haven't come across it in the wild.


    Kiora is frustrating since the AI will spam the first ability for a 12 mana swing, even if it has the option to use the second ability.  Players that stuff multiple gem converters build loyalty very quickly.

    It becomes a huge issue in enraged events, as being stalled for a turn or two can cost you the match.  It also hurts when trying to "Cast X or more creatures" because she can prevent you from getting that last creature down before winning the match.

  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
    hmm been doing tg with koth and you know what had a night not one match vs a koth too bad 3 of them were deploy decks, including the new white single color pw, and people whine about koth lol
  • Monkeynutts
    Monkeynutts Posts: 566 Critical Contributor
    edited September 2017
    yes bt deploy is a mythic and not everyone has it. i dont for example. Koth enables all strategies with red and dual red cards. 
  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
    i know i dont either and honestly hadnt seen it in ages but 3 decks based on it in one night based on it was a painful reminder to say the least.
  • Monkeynutts
    Monkeynutts Posts: 566 Critical Contributor
    Still awful playing against him. So OP
  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
    edited September 2017
    If you hate Koth, Nahiri is in the vault right now.  She's a super Koth killer. Or, get Koth himself and find out how often his magic doesn't work. He's in the vault now too.
  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
    and it is all back to where we started lol
  • ElfNeedsFood
    ElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    And he’s not OP (nor is Nahiri) they are just both friendly to the types of decks that’s greg the AI is programmed to run well. Lots of creatures and spam first ability.

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