Koth...Nerf him

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Comments

  • arNero
    arNero Posts: 358 Mover and Shaker
    I agree on one point about Koth's problem: His 1st ability is too cheap for such a self-sustaining effect, it makeshis red-only limitation a bit moot, even considering his low support count.

    That said, that's also just about the only major problem I see with Koth now; Just increase the cost of his 1st ability to 9, and I believe he'll be manageable, though indeed as others have said, Nahiri then becomes the next problem for having a 1st ability that is too good for the cost (especially when she can run those two 6-mana double striker at once)
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    wereotter said:
    Ohboy said:
    I'm pretty sure QB also pulled from only the played QB decks and not from the entire universe of player's decks. 
    I don't think that's accurate as I face a far greater percentage of the same planeswalkers in Training Grounds than I faced when Quick Battle was a thing since there was never a "node" to save a deck into. It seemed it just pulled from whatever was out there. Like I never see mono-blue Tezzeret  in Training Grounds, but I used to see him pretty often in Quick Battle. Same could be said for several other planeswalkers.

    There was a disproportionate amount of speed decks in QB if that was the case. 
  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
    I remember seeing a lot of Koth in QB as well.
  • Monkeynutts85
    Monkeynutts85 Posts: 46 Just Dropped In
    Quick Battle like Training Ground is just a grind.
    It should be something else, but it's not.
    People want their 4 wins and get out basically. Koth, although not the most consistent Planeswalker he is in fact the best one because of the cards he has access too.
    Elspeth is similar, but white doesn't have access to the powerful SOI cards that we all know and hate/love (depends on whether your playing with or against them).

    The easier method as I mentioned earlier is increase the 1st ability to 9 from 6.
    Other options include reducing his "Red influence" to +6/+7 from +9;
    or make Blue/White -2 or -3 also Green/Black -1 or -2 to weaken his resolve with other colours.
  • Furordraco
    Furordraco Posts: 142 Tile Toppler
    Na leave koth alone. Many times we common mortals fail to cascade with him even after using 4 times in a row his first ability. As for the AI i find no trouble simpy picking his reds before he does. And yes sometimes you get completely cascaded in the face, but its bad when it happens against any pw (except base liliana and jayce, they suck :smile: )
  • Sirchombli
    Sirchombli Posts: 322 Mover and Shaker
    We're on koth again. Yay. Koth is not scary if you're prepared for him. Blow up his gem converters and keep removal up. Also, you're gonna lose sometimes. I've taken random losses to some extra weird corner cases. Git Gud. Don't fear the koth. Murder the koth
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gunmix25 said:
    Gormhaus said:
    ElfNeedsFood said:
    hawkyh1 said:


    (people do care that cycling is overpowered)

    HH
    True, but not like the firestorm over Baral. That's the case where it truly broke the game because the AI could play too. If the AI could cycle, the heat would be as high as the Baral debate. 
    Higher. If the AI could cycle the complaining would hit these boards like the fist of an angry god. I loved the old Beral but when you were up against him the matches would take a long time and if you couldnt counter him you were probably going to lose. With cycling you would lose and it would probably be quicker.

    And the only counter would be to play solemnity
    Heh.

    The AI should be able to cycle _but_ not do the broken one turn kills. It should be able to follow the logic "None of these cards apply right now, I'll cycle this one instead." Or even "I have Faith of the Devoted out, therefore cycling now means I get life, I have nothing better to play, so I'll cycle this."

    I don't think the AI should be programmed to be the best it could be because the game would no longer be playable, but it should give the _pretense_ that it is trying. The very very stupid mistakes (like destroying it's own creatures for no reason) need to go, or at least have a "percentage chance" added rather than be automatic.
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yeah, anyone else really annoyed at how the AI actively avoids match-5's now? 
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sirchombli said:
    We're on koth again. Yay. Koth is not scary if you're prepared for him. Blow up his gem converters and keep removal up. Also, you're gonna lose sometimes. I've taken random losses to some extra weird corner cases. Git Gud. Don't fear the koth. Murder the koth

    It's not about not being able to play against him. It's not about him needing a nerf.

    It's about the environment being boring and not fulfilling it's purpose.

    Training Grounds should be where beginners get to practise against every possible little thing, they should get to fight against _every_ planeswalker and all kinds of strategies.

    Open it up from the "entered" decks to "all decks" would fix things pretty immediately and is probably the simplest thing to implement.


    I'd also suggest having the _opposite_ of normal prize scaling. At the moment everyone gets the same. I think you should get higher levels _less_ for playing TG. I know they'll moan and complain, but they have a ton of ways to get tuff, beginners don't.
    Increase the prizes for lower levels, especially Runes, don't just give them crystals, have a level where they get a Free Booster Pack.
    Gold should be what it currently is. Silver and lower should be _better_. Platinum should be _worse_. Reduce the motivations for Platinum to even enter it. (And I'm saying that as platinum because my life is better served if my wife and especially my kids get better access to stuff, I can win it in events, the kids especially cant yet.)

  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    What's with the underlines?? 
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mainloop25 said:
    What's with the underlines?? 
    Amusement. My communication skills hail from BBS times and Usenet. We used to _need_ them for emphasis. I still find them very useful.
  • Gormhaus
    Gormhaus Posts: 190 Tile Toppler
    Its not that koth is an unstoppable force, its just he is 80% of battle grounds opponents. You should really be able to pick your opponent. The way i have been playing BG is that i play whatever PW my opponent is. Have yet to use Chandra 2 or mono tezz.
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gormhaus said:
    Its not that koth is an unstoppable force, its just he is 80% of battle grounds opponents. You should really be able to pick your opponent. The way i have been playing BG is that i play whatever PW my opponent is. Have yet to use Chandra 2 or mono tezz.

    The percentage depends on what Mastery level you are in by the looks, which explains why earlier discussers didn't understand each other, they had very different experiences.
  • Gormhaus
    Gormhaus Posts: 190 Tile Toppler
    Gormhaus said:7
    Its not that koth is an unstoppable force, its just he is 80% of battle grounds opponents. You should really be able to pick your opponent. The way i have been playing BG is that i play whatever PW my opponent is. Have yet to use Chandra 2 or mono tezz.
    And ajani. Dont see ajani in bg much either.
  • Szamsziel
    Szamsziel Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
    edited September 2017
    Kinesia said:
    Gold should be what it currently is. Silver and lower should be _better_. Platinum should be _worse_. Reduce the motivations for Platinum to even enter it. (And I'm saying that as platinum because my life is better served if my wife and especially my kids get better access to stuff, I can win it in events, the kids especially cant yet.)
    Why so? Please remember that each tier play only within the tier. As so there is no interactions between tiers. Why to reduce rewards for particular tier then? Beginners play in Bronze/silver. If you have cards mastered for Plat you should be able to create anti-aggro deck Koth is using. (but adding as reward free booster would be nice.
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gormhaus said:
    Its not that koth is an unstoppable force, its just he is 80% of battle grounds opponents. You should really be able to pick your opponent. The way i have been playing BG is that i play whatever PW my opponent is. Have yet to use Chandra 2 or mono tezz.

    I've lost to chandra 2 in training grounds before, so I definitely know she makes an appearance. 
  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
    i play tg fairly consistently i usually 1 one maybe 2 koths out of 4 or 5 battles to finish it but a lot of kiorias also so that makes her bad too right? nerf them both out of existence i say

  • Furordraco
    Furordraco Posts: 142 Tile Toppler
    most of all i see base chandras gideons and nissa...some Koths, few Kioras and a good amount of Nahiris
  • Furordraco
    Furordraco Posts: 142 Tile Toppler
    edited September 2017
    its been almost 2 years since i played against a blue tezzeret. Anyways to stay on topic. Koth is good, nut not OP
  • MTG_Mage
    MTG_Mage Posts: 224 Tile Toppler
    Training grounds should allow you to select standard or legacy when you enter it ( @Brigby did say they were looking into making this possible)

    additionally it should go from 'first 4 wins gets you rewards' to being 5 nodes (one of each color) and first win in each node gets you prizing.

     Instead of using _this_ to emphasize, if you highlight text and hit ctrl+u it will underline that text (I dont know why they dont have U in the toolbar above beside B and I) 

    as for staying on topic, I have said it before and I will say it again, koths first ability needs to be changed from 6 to 9, he generates enough loyalty when using it to use it at 6 practically every turn which allows for explosive mana gains.

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