Is Carol the new OML?

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  • Rod5
    Rod5 Posts: 589 Critical Contributor
    And as a 5* player I definitely use her when boosted to climb/hop with Thano5. They are lethal.
  • sambrookjm
    sambrookjm Posts: 2,168 Chairperson of the Boards
    I've made the comment before that the vast majority of the teams I see in the Simulator are some variant of Medusa/Carol/Wasp/Peggy. The only difference I see now is that you could add 4-star Blade in that list as well, mostly in place of Peggy. The non-varied metagame was something that the Vaulting was supposed to fix...instead, it seems to have made it much, much worse. Maybe the un-vaulting will help shake things up?
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    BlackWidower said:
    veny said:
    OML was awesome on his own, no matter what teammates he had.
    Carol can be pretty broken with certain combos (my favourite is Wasp+5* Hawkeye, Loki+5*Hawkeye, Coulson, 3* Blade, or Punisher).
    But generally, she is slightly above average.
    She makes me hit the skip button faster than the snooze button on Monday mornings.
    Interesting, don't think I've ever seen someone say they're intimidated by Wasp. I mean, I loved her rework and all, but I feel like I've hardly played against her, even though she's in the team I tend to run the most in PvP season Simulator. @BlackWidower  Care to explain why she's an auto skip for you? 
  • D4Ni13
    D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    OML was not nerfed because he was in all matches alone. The real reason he was nerfed was that he saved a lot of health packs and because the best strategy to kill him was to let him last (to regenerate less) and in that time he could wreck you. C4rol is the other way around. You want to kill her first (an usually you can pretty easily, because she has no regen) and than take on the rest (even when paired with Medusa - I most often take Carol out and then Medusa). 

    I am also one of those players that enjoy pairing her with Medusa. And while they are very fun to play, they are not unbeatable on defense. Neither of them. Both of them are far less annoying to play against than the pre-nerf OML. I prefer playing against them any day, rather than playing against Iceman & Teen Jean. 

    Anyway, the idea here is that OML saved a lot of health packs and because of that you could essentially played a long time and reach a lot of points in PvP without be forced to stop & wait. That meant that you could reach from 0 to 1200 points in one go, and that's why he was nerfed. Carol & Medusa can be annoying to play against, but you run out of health packs the same as other teams. Like I said, I usually avoid Iceman & Teen Jean, rather than Carol & Medusa. Even Wasp is more annoying than the 2. 
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    D4Ni13 said:
     Like I said, I usually avoid Iceman & Teen Jean, rather than Carol & Medusa. Even Wasp is more annoying than the 2. 
    Even boosted, my 336 Jean hits like a wet blanket - something laughable like 14K team damage.
    Let's see how you enjoy all the 340+ Carols and Medusas next time their boost weeks come around.
  • D4Ni13
    D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    Bowgentle said:
    D4Ni13 said:
     Like I said, I usually avoid Iceman & Teen Jean, rather than Carol & Medusa. Even Wasp is more annoying than the 2. 
    Even boosted, my 336 Jean hits like a wet blanket - something laughable like 14K team damage.
    Let's see how you enjoy all the 340+ Carols and Medusas next time their boost weeks come around.
    14K team damage is laughable ? That one-shots most unboosted teams. Carol boosted is strong, but if you deny her the AP she needs, you kill her easily. Also if the enemy team makes a 5 match (everybody wants to make a 5 match - sadly the AI is not to good at it) you stun all the enemy team for 2 turns. And finally Teen Jean has 2 allies. 

    I play a lot of Carol (because she is my favorite hero in this game, and I also read her comics), and I played against her alot too. From 100 matches, I was one shot by Carol only 2 or 3 times. Teen Jean is a different story. I usually avoid her, but when I was forced to play against her, I lost almost half of the matches. It's true that I didn't had my 4* champed then, but still. I find her powerful & useful. 

    I just think it's in the human nature to crave to something they don't have. The ones that have more new 4*, probably want the older ones, and the other want the new ones. Overall, I think they are pretty balanced. At least at my level of play. 
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    D4Ni13 said:
    Bowgentle said:
    D4Ni13 said:
     Like I said, I usually avoid Iceman & Teen Jean, rather than Carol & Medusa. Even Wasp is more annoying than the 2. 
    Even boosted, my 336 Jean hits like a wet blanket - something laughable like 14K team damage.
    Let's see how you enjoy all the 340+ Carols and Medusas next time their boost weeks come around.
    14K team damage is laughable ? That one-shots most unboosted teams. Carol boosted is strong, but if you deny her the AP she needs, you kill her easily. Also if the enemy team makes a 5 match (everybody wants to make a 5 match - sadly the AI is not to good at it) you stun all the enemy team for 2 turns. And finally Teen Jean has 2 allies. 

    I play a lot of Carol (because she is my favorite hero in this game, and I also read her comics), and I played against her alot too. From 100 matches, I was one shot by Carol only 2 or 3 times. Teen Jean is a different story. I usually avoid her, but when I was forced to play against her, I lost almost half of the matches. It's true that I didn't had my 4* champed then, but still. I find her powerful & useful. 

    I just think it's in the human nature to crave to something they don't have. The ones that have more new 4*, probably want the older ones, and the other want the new ones. Overall, I think they are pretty balanced. At least at my level of play. 

    If you're in 5* MMR, yes, 14K team damage is laughable.
    Whereas I ran my 332 Carol all the way to 1200+ with Thanos when she was buffed two weeks ago, against dual champed 5s.
  • Rod5
    Rod5 Posts: 589 Critical Contributor
    Yeah, the only unboosted teams 5* rosters will see are worth 1-5 pts, so barely worth the effort unless farming.

    Jean is no longer top tier like she used to be sadly. I fought a lvl 479 Iceman a couple of events ago and that was a fairly frightening experience though. 
  • BlackWidower
    BlackWidower Posts: 250 Mover and Shaker
    DarthDeVo said:
    BlackWidower said:
    veny said:
    OML was awesome on his own, no matter what teammates he had.
    Carol can be pretty broken with certain combos (my favourite is Wasp+5* Hawkeye, Loki+5*Hawkeye, Coulson, 3* Blade, or Punisher).
    But generally, she is slightly above average.
    She makes me hit the skip button faster than the snooze button on Monday mornings.
    Interesting, don't think I've ever seen someone say they're intimidated by Wasp. I mean, I loved her rework and all, but I feel like I've hardly played against her, even though she's in the team I tend to run the most in PvP season Simulator. @BlackWidower  Care to explain why she's an auto skip for you? 
    I dunno, she just seems to really annoy me.  She always seems to have the best of luck (boards always on her side) and I cascade into her tiles and always seems to have a lot of damage from her for no good reason, and stolen AP.  She's a support character though, so it depends on who she's with.  
  • optimus2861
    optimus2861 Posts: 1,233 Chairperson of the Boards
    Wasp in 4* land seems akin to Scarlet Witch in 3* land. If you can deal with her quickly, no trouble at all, but the potential exists for the match to turn sideways on you in a hurry if things go bad (Wasp + Carol could be a disaster if even one special exists, for instance). I tend to auto-skip Witch more often than not because you just know you're going to eat one bad cascade (and resulting AI 'power! power! power!' turn) before it's over.
  • Black Duke
    Black Duke Posts: 694 Critical Contributor
    sambrookjm said:
    I've made the comment before that the vast majority of the teams I see in the Simulator are some variant of Medusa/Carol/Wasp/Peggy. The only difference I see now is that you could add 4-star Blade in that list as well, mostly in place of Peggy. The non-varied metagame was something that the Vaulting was supposed to fix...instead, it seems to have made it much, much worse. Maybe the un-vaulting will help shake things up?
    I hope so! I´ve really enjoyed playing Shield Sim before vaulting began since I could try out different teams. But nowadays every team I see consists of Carol, Medusa and/or Blade. It´s almost impossible to find teams without them! And for my part I´m sick and tired to fight these three characters over and over again.

  • sambrookjm
    sambrookjm Posts: 2,168 Chairperson of the Boards
    Black Duke said:
    sambrookjm said:
    Maybe the un-vaulting will help shake things up?
    I hope so! I´ve really enjoyed playing Shield Sim before vaulting began since I could try out different teams. But nowadays every team I see consists of Carol, Medusa and/or Blade. It´s almost impossible to find teams without them! And for my part I´m sick and tired to fight these three characters over and over again.

    I had a whole thread about it from about three months ago.
    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/64243/varied-metagame

    Everyone was using Wasp, Carol and Medusa.  Now you can sub in Blade for Wasp, as he seems to be a more common foe.  The mirror matches in that one are about 60-40 in your favor, depending on how much red you manage to get, and if you get more strike tiles than they do.

  • tchipley
    tchipley Posts: 63 Match Maker
    No. Carol is fine. I fight her a lot and she is tough but I like it to be a challenge.
    I don't want cakewalks and I sure don't want her changed when I finally get mine leveled up.

    She's a good threat and I hope to make her a good ally for my team.
  • mega ghost
    mega ghost Posts: 1,156 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think the best route to fixing this is to release new characters that are powerful in their own way and have a power or two that serve as antithesis to these very powerful, popular characters and teams. Sort of like how when Quake was released she helped undermine all of the team damage dealt by the likes of Jean and Rhulk.

    Better yet, also make them work really well with an existing character to breathe some life into an older character that doesn't need a rework but has fallen by the wayside.  
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    I jump on teams that run her unboosted in PVP, it means the match will go faster because I have at least 15k less health to destroy. She does not need any type of rework
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    Milk Jugz said:
    I jump on teams that run her unboosted in PVP, it means the match will go faster because I have at least 15k less health to destroy. She does not need any type of rework
    In fairness, OML was apparently a pretty popular target in PVP as well. So defensive strength is clearly not everything.
  • ZootSax
    ZootSax Posts: 1,819 Chairperson of the Boards

    After a week of unboosted Carol in PVP, I really can't see the comparison to OML.  When OML was released, I was a 2*-->3* transition player and pretty much every player in my MMR who had a yellow OML was using him every single match.  Not only can't I imaging a 1 or 2 cover Carol giving a 2* player a serious threat of defeat like OML could with a little luck, but I scarcely even saw her this past week in my current MMR when she wasn't boosted.  Maybe it's just because the rework of Riri was so good, but I honestly saw more teams using Gwenpool or Kate with a boosted 3* than Carol.  She's absolutely a really strong character, but she's a long, long way from defining the meta across parts of the transition from 2* all the way up to 5* like OML briefly was...

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