Update to Heroes for Hire (6/23/17) *Updated (6/26/17)

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Comments

  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    animaniactoo said:
    MissChinch said:
    @animaniactoo

    The best possible interpretation then involves a critical lack of foresight regarding this store they spent substantial time piloting.

    If they were the least bit concerned about the reaction to this it would have come with a better explaination.  Either that or perhaps they are so out of touch that they didn't think it would be poorly received.

    Clearly none of the tantrums the forumites have had made much of a difference to D3/Demi, so I don't see why they would care about taking a dump on em, it hasn't been a problem yet and they haven't exactly slow rolled the dumps ;)

    If it were a matter of competing priorities and stakeholders being different from users it doesn't preclude decent PR and tact...  We don't get it, either because we're not worth the time or because they're so out of touch as to not know if this is a positive or negative change for the users...

    (...there's a whole buttload of whitespace here in my reply on my phone...  Formatting could be just plain stupid, apologies in advance)
    Agreed on PR/tact/lack of foresight, etc. - all part of the need for a really good big picture person imo. Including the fact that I think that people would respect "This feature has had an unintended effect [describe bad effect], and we're pulling back from it because of that." a lot more than they respect some of what I would guess are cover explanations being given, trying to keep messaging "positive" in an attempt to always be positive with users and counter negawave.

    I enjoy the game, but I see a lot of forum dissatisfaction, and I see crisis points upcoming based on some of the changes they're making, and that says to me that they're just not weighing risks and effects well for something that is a complex situation.
    When users start seeing these implications before the company it dramatically undermines confidence...  Do that often enough and the time where honest explainations can help will quickly pass.

    They have some legitimately difficult problems that they don't get enough credit for solving, it's when they completely, devastatingly, whiff on the easy ones that really hurts.
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    orbitalint said:
    @MissChinch I agree that it's not a viable solution but they seem to need new lines of current user revenue and apparently have declining buying folks above SCL6. Otherwise, why bother doing this? If they can convert one in 1000 of these SCL5- people to a whale by doing it, maybe it buys them a few more weeks. That's how I'm thinking now.

    It's the only major marvel game that isn't on the top 200 grossing of the play store and it's been like that for many months. I remember when it was rivaling Contest for top twenty status each month.

    This thread would have been nine pages deep by now six months ago with this kind of bombshell change but people have moved on. I'm still here because I want to see what happens when they close up shop. Haven't played in six weeks. Stopped supporting the game (never a whale) over four months ago.
    My answer to why they would offer the same HfH store to all users is just to simplify the code base, why deal with two stores, people that are so roster slot starved aren't even pulling covers they've already acquired because they don't have enough spots to roster what they might pull...  Offering them more covers for massive (3+ slots at that level is a massive amount) of HP simply has never effect, upside or downside...   No one is gonna get suckered into buying a single cover for a crash, if they do it will only be one time.

    Anytime you can cut extraneous **** out, especially stuff that requires regular maintenance it's a win, it's pretty standard and sometimes it can be claimed on release notes as a feature ;).  

    I don't see anything at all nefarious with it imo.
  • tfcrazy1980
    tfcrazy1980 Posts: 132 Tile Toppler
    TheWerebison said:
    tfcrazy1980 said:
    If you really wanna see where direction is going, check the other 2 forums....have yourself a good laugh
    Oh wow. Look at all the angry comments in the MtG forum. Why does anyone still give these guys money? They don't exactly seem to work for the customer, do they? I don't know if it's them or their parent company, but either way, the time has come to show them the game isn't worth their miserly attitude.
    To me, this really does speak volumes about where this game is heading, its troublesome to see very eerie similarities in c.s. and their approach to issues.
  • orbitalint
    orbitalint Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    @MissChinch

    If consolidating code is the reason, then why offer HfH at all? It's barely been here two months and they took time to develop and even test two different price points with three different visual options in the code. This is about preserving artificial scarcity because it didn't provide enough revenue from those SCLs qualified to use it. Heck, if I had the 2500 hp option in the test, no way would I have ever spent on the final version. 

    They've shown that providing a benefit to all comes at a cost at this stage in their dev cycle. More progression prizes in PVE came with having to play an additional clear and back load it to have to play almost the entire event with all three required characters. HfH at a global scale had to be gutted to preserve the ridiculous notion that 4*s mean something for day one players. 
  • Frustrated1
    Frustrated1 Posts: 68 Match Maker
    So there's a large outcry on the other two forums? So they don't know what they're doing in ANY game. 
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    orbitalint said:
    @MissChinch

    If consolidating code is the reason, then why offer HfH at all?
    In its described state come Tuesday the new HfH store will be nearly functionally identical to a blank page...  
    a vestigial remnant of code that should be excised...

    Maintaining one turd is better than maintaining two turds, but maintaining zero turds is ideal...

    I got no answers as to why they choose to do what they do.
  • purplemur
    purplemur Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    -I think we will see a frequency increase to crash cycle. I hope daily
    -The actual devs are probably not the ones pushing this. They have other things they could/would/should be doing with their time than store changes.
    -Not the whales either. Why would whales want to play by themselves? Tthey wouldn't be complaining about fresh meat, this doubtfully came from them. They have "invested" in the game and they don't want the game to end.
    -The game is not losing money: $100,000,000!
    -the idea that someone thought of this is farfetched too, layers upon layers of mismanagement caused this to be. The ones who should be fired are whomever does such a dismal job of marketing/brand management/customer outreach. Even more terrible roll-out after incompetent bungle-up. Someone's nephew?(I don't even know how??) needs to get fired or promoted; but get them out of here with this tinykittyd up way of integrating product changes! 
    -Maybe this is some deep inception mind kitty; I bought Prof.X today cuz it will be 3 years and the rarity just shot up. how many people are gonna buy now only to have the price go down and it be colorless or something awesome next season? 
    What might help is taking the message beyond these forums. Leave product reviews on the app store, write emails to executives at the different companies involved(Sega,bandai,D#go!,Apple?,trade mags, submit C.S. tickets,etc. We need to be engaged consumers and demand quality and performance for OUR product. 

    So until Lego Spider-man is announced next week as the first 6*; make mine MPQ!!

    By: Leonel Castellani.

  • orbitalint
    orbitalint Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2017
    MissChinch said:
    orbitalint said:
    @MissChinch

    If consolidating code is the reason, then why offer HfH at all?

    I got no answers as to why they choose to do what they do.
    Hehe, no worries. I've appreciated the respectful back and forth. Reminded me of a time long past with fallen forumites. 

    Also @purplemur, whales are playing their own game anyways in 5* land. It's not like they are feasting on new players on their climb. PVE maybe a better argument for it but same deal if they want the top rewards.
  • Ayasugi-san
    Ayasugi-san Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
    orbitalint said:


    Also @purplemur, whales are playing their own game anyways in 5* land. It's not like they are feasting on new players on their climb. PVE maybe a better argument for it but same deal if they want the top rewards.
    Funny, there's a post on the game's subreddit from today that shows a likely whale feasting on a newer player for their PVP climb...
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    I can see some benefit in having the current Crash node accessible to anyone willing to spend 3600 HP (even though a single cover is unlikely to result in a win).  But that same argument works for giving someone access to the Behemoth Burito 4* character (which is also more likely to give an immediate benefit).

    Why not compromise, and just add an extra 4* to the existing H4H store?  Would adding an extra item for sale on the store that sticks around for 5 days be that big a deal?

    I don't buy that this is an attempt to preserve the value of buying 4* covers with CP: even if it is cheaper, each offer can only be taken up once and you were already looking at an average wait of 3 months for a specific cover to become available.  I'm sure there are still people who would spend the premium to get what they want right now.
  • Königsmacher
    Königsmacher Posts: 61 Match Maker
    On a side note: The picture @Brigby posted in the anouncement shows IMHB black and Medusa red as offers. So we're starting the new cycle with the second colour again?
  • DrDevilDinosaur
    DrDevilDinosaur Posts: 436 Mover and Shaker
    Ok, now I'm very confused. This decision is pretty bad for players - the store is going to take 5x longer to rotate around - but also bad for developers - players are less likely to spend, and more likely to acquire the cover for"free" via other options (rewards, token pulls, BH).

    I thought the goal was to tighten the screen and bleed a bit more money out of everyone before they finally turn off the servers, but I guess Demiurge doesn't need money.
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2017
    Soooo... everyone in the preview shows that their deal ends in 1 day, 19 hours, except for Invisible Woman, who is out of order and shows 2 days, 19 hours. Fury is the next one that starts in 19 hours.

    By my calculation, that leaves Gwenpool, Spider-Gwen and Kate Bishop to complete the rotation for the second color. 

    I have been waiting for Spider-Gwen red for MONTHS already. It's the only color of hers I don't have (you know, the one that makes her semi-useful) and my avenues for obtaining it are EXTREMELY limited. If that doesn't make it into the rotation just for some stupid, arbitrary deadline, I'm gonna lose it. 

    If you truly read these boards and seek feedback then AT LEAST INCLUDE GWENPOOL AND KATE BISHOP BLACK AND SPIDER-GWEN RED!

    I get that you want to go "clean slate" when Hulkbuster's Crash starts, but seriously, it's not going to hurt things if you offer these last few characters in the rotation, even if its only for 24 hours. 

    If this doesn't happen, I WILL give this a one star rating in the Google Play Store and Amazon Store and write a scathing review, telling no one to download this game. And I NEVER write reviews. 

    I'm generally a very easy going, accommodating person. Congratulations, y'all have managed to do what few others have managed: set me on the warpath. 
  • DaveR4470
    DaveR4470 Posts: 931 Critical Contributor
    Do not like.
  • TheBaku
    TheBaku Posts: 55 Match Maker
    I've read through this thread and haven't seen this idea yet... 

    I know that since the h4h store has come out, I have stopped gambling HP on daily tokens in vaults....  I wonder if I'm not alone? 

    Since the intro of H4h I have saved all HP and converted it into a 4star when I have enough.... Previously I was trading HP for 2stars, 500iso and 3 stars for champ levels.   Perhaps this change is a deliberate effort to devalue HP? 

    After all,  without the H4H store, I'm now going to see a massive surplus of HP,  with nowhere to spend it.  I only need so many roster slots...  

    TL:DR - this change will mean a lot of people exchange HP to gamble on dailies,  and will get ISO and 2stars instead of guaranteed 4 stars from the H4H store. 
  • SpringSoldier
    SpringSoldier Posts: 265 Mover and Shaker
    I know this is very selfish of me, but since I couldn't afford HfH anyway, I'm sort of glad this change occurred. As soon as this store dies out the devs might have some incentive to give players more access to vaulted 4*.


  • ZootSax
    ZootSax Posts: 1,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    Is there any reason the new HfH store couldn't just have three separate entries for each of the character's three colors?  Sure it would still be a longer rotation than currently, but I can't see how the option to spend between 3,600 to 10,800 for 1-3 covers of the same character would be anything but a neutral change from the dev's perspective while still being less bad from the player's perspective.


  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    SpringSoldier said:
    I know this is very selfish of me, but since I couldn't afford HfH anyway, I'm sort of glad this change occurred. As soon as this store dies out the devs might have some incentive to give players more access to vaulted 4*.


    If that were the case I'd gladly take one for the team...  

    Selfish or not, if you think that'll actually work I certainly can't blame you for being glad.  

    I hope you're right, but I'm way past betting on it with these guys ;)
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    ZootSax said:
    Is there any reason the new HfH store couldn't just have three separate entries for each of the character's three colors?  Sure it would still be a longer rotation than currently, but I can't see how the option to spend between 3,600 to 10,800 for 1-3 covers of the same character would be anything but a neutral change from the dev's perspective while still being less bad from the player's perspective.


    Whatever the reason, they are not comfortable selling specific 4* covers for 3600HP...  The current store is heavily time gated, the one that goes in effect in two days is laughable.

    I'm not saying they're doing it because they make more money only selling specific covers for 120CP, I'm saying I think they're doing it to keep their options open concerning what they can get outta the user base for these retired 4* covers...  

    The money grab would be to run the store more frequently, that's not what they're doing, this preserves a scarcity they can take time to figure out how best to exploit...  Seeing it drip away to the tune of 3600HP per cover obviously didn't sit well.

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