Finally made it to 5* land...and it's horrible.

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  • mpqr7
    mpqr7 Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I am a basically free player as well. I somehow jumped into have three championed 5*s: OML, PHX and Cap. It's become harder and a health-pack drain, but it's not so bad. I aim for 700+, I generally make it to 900+, and sometimes I make it to 1200+ if I have enough available time to do a few shield hops.

    The battles are tough and drain health packs like crazy, but they're generally worth 60+ points, which is nice.

    Black Suit Spidey unfortunately is pretty bad. He's pretty easy to defeat.

    I tend to use Cap/Phx... I'm, probably one of the only ones who does that! Just because I got to sick of using OML/Phx, and OML/Cap doesn't have great synergy. Cap/Phx is better vs BSS, because they have moves that circumvent BSS' strike tile defenses.

    I've been able to beat Thanos/BP sometimes, although it's tough and terrifying.

    Hawkeye/Coulson is a great team, but it's defeatable if you pull through. I think I usually kill Hawkeye first, I can't remember actually.
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,537 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I've had a very different experience with the transition to the 5* tier, but I'm also in a very different situation so it's not exactly comparable.  I started off with one champ 5* - Black Bolt.  Black Bolt pairs very well with many, many characters, so I ran BB and a boosted 4* (I had a pretty full 4* roster at the time, and it's only gotten better since.)  I played this way for a few months until I maxed out Black Widow.  BB and Widow pair together very well, so I champed her too.  I then fully covered Dr. Strange, but since Stephen doesn't play very well in PVP, I decided he wouldn't be a great 3rd 5*, and stopped pulling Latest as soon as he was fully covered.  I resumed pulling Latest after, as I wanted Thanos.  Once I got Thanos, I then fully leveled all my 5*s (in for a Penny, in for a Pound,) which at the time included OML and Strange.  I champed Strange, as his build wasn't great (4/5/4,) but have yet to champ OML since he's very usable at 4/5/4.  I'll get around to it when I can spare the extra 20k Iso.  I don't have an extra cover for either.

    So when I had one champ 5*, my scaling went up appreciably - I stopped seeing 4* teams with any regularity and generally just saw a 5* with one 4* or two 5*.  My PVE scaling went up too, but I expected that.  When I champed Widow, I saw a lot less 5/4 teams and saw pretty much just 5*s.  I didn't notice much difference if any in PVP when I got my 3rd 5*.  The PVE difference wasn't huge, either.

    As far as PVP climbing went, I could generally climb to around 900 (in S4) with a boosted 4* team before taking more than a few hits.  Adding Bolt increased that to around 1050ish, depending on the time and other things.  With Bolt/Widow I could make it to 1200 before shielding unless it was particularly "hot" out.  Thanos/Black Panther has impacted this a little - I now take more hits since BB/BW isn't as scary, but I still think I can do this (also, I now have Thanos/BP too, so I'll switch to them when I get high in points.)  I will definitely say it's helped my HP income a lot - I spend a lot less on shields, and have to hop less.  Also, I can get a much higher total though I've yet to score higher than T10 (well, I got T5 once in a fairly lazy bracket.)

    The downside of this is you wipe a lot more with 5* teams  - the match damage is so much higher that a bad cascade will destroy your team.  You also consume a lot more health packs.  I frequently climb to a good float point evening, then climb to shield the next morning.  Sometimes I dig into my Tacos.  If I don't have much time to play, I will climb as far as I can get and shield.

    In general, I would say you can play with 5*s as long as you don't level them past 390 or so - I noticed the PVP scaling kicking in at around 400.  My advice would be to be careful with the 5*s you champ, at least until you have two good ones.  You will want your first 5* to be one that plays well with others - Bolt, Thanos, even OML.  I believe Hawkeye is too squishy (don't have him yet,) and Strange definitely is (he rocks for PVE, though.)  Widow can be devastating, but she's too slow to be a good deterrent - she really needs a good accelerator (like Black Bolt.)  I'm honestly not sure who else - maybe 5* Cap and IM?  GG? PHX? 

    Anyway, your second 5* should play well with the first.  After that, you can do what you want, but unfortunately this is the best way to deal with the scaling and not have an awful time of PVP.


  • laughingMAN
    laughingMAN Posts: 65 Match Maker
    edited June 2017
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    I'm a free player that has more or less unoptimally backed himself into a corner as well.   :s

    Genuine question tho: If I've already got a single 5* at level 450, would it vault me into a new MMR if I just champed it?  I would like to be able to respec, but pvp just barely playable for me right now (I seem to be able to see both champed 5 teams and mixed 5/4 teams).  My other closest 5s are at 405.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'm a free player that has more or less unoptimally backed himself into a corner as well.   :s

    Genuine question tho: If I've already got a single 5* at level 450, would it vault me into a new MMR if I just champed it?  I would like to be able to respec, but pvp just barely playable for me right now (I seem to be able to see both champed 5 teams and mixed 5/4 teams).  My other closest 5s are at 405.
    Champing does nothing if the character is already at 450, no worries.
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,296 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2017
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    Yeah, I never planned on putting any iso into my 5*.  I just plan on collecting them for collection sake, maybe using them as I get more covers in PvE just for fun at times.  Might change that once they alter PvE but probably not because knowing the history of the game, they will change PvE scaling again at some point in the future since the SCL scaling system has obvious flaws as currently tested.  I have always been careful in this game when moving between transitions.  I know I would quit the game if I only played a few characters every time.
  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2017
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    For those posting that are wondering whether it's worth keeping 5s at all, you can level them up to 350 or so and they won't mess up your scaling/MMR at all if you've got championed 4s. The level where they seem to start causing a jump is 360ish - you can definitely use them at that point, though they won't be any better (and in many cases decidedly worse) than a boosted, champed 4*.
  • zodiac339
    zodiac339 Posts: 1,948 Chairperson of the Boards
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    It was refreshing to see the OP say that PVE wasn't the biggest problem. My viewpoint had been seeing Epics as about the only ones to make 1200 and top 5 in PVP, so what, I figured, was the big deal about enemy health pools in PVE? (Not being able to take out Muscles before a Threaten or 2 go off does do something to legitimize the dilemma. The 388 ones alone turn a single CD you couldn't control into Yelena doing 4K per match. And the 6K Pistol spam sure sucks too.) Managing PVP sounds like a social game that would put Big Brother to shame. I don't socialize particularly well, so that sounds like another nail in the 5* coffin for me.
  • Ducky
    Ducky Posts: 2,255 Community Moderator
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    ***Moving this over to Tips and Guides as it has become an advice thread on how to cope with 5* life***
  • zodiac339
    zodiac339 Posts: 1,948 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2017
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    Come on Ducky, this is neither a tip nor a guide, but a General Discussion about transitioning to the 5* tier.
    With the number of people talking about how to make it work, it's kind of become guide-ish, but it did legitimately start as opinion post. So, everyone's wrong? I want to sarcastically say "Sounds like MPQ to me," but it feels too much like truth.
  • dr tinykittylove
    dr tinykittylove Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Don't panic. 

    Keep calm and drink tea. 

    Etc etc. 

    When I have the time to join pvp early and play around, I enjoy taking out my buffed 4*s out to annoy my fellow 5* players. The good ones can do well enough against freshly champed 5*s from around 300 before buff, though they are definitely less vulnerable to bad cascades at 320+ with more health. Mix and match 4*s and 5*s when you're just playing on the first day and don't care about being hit, why not? 

    I also like to mix in 4*s with my 5*s in Shield Sim.

    The more champed/levelled characters you have, the more fun you can have! Getting hit by some random person in pvp isn't the end of the world. 

    Of course, if you're making a last hour rush with the rest of the zombie horde, well you're ruining someone else's day too and getting hit is just karma in action. :) 
  • DAC169
    DAC169 Posts: 122 Tile Toppler
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    Jarvind said:
    - Also, that easy-to-beat 4* team you miraculously found? Yeah, check that guy's roster: he's got megachamped 5*s! What gives? Ah, yes, he's trying to bait you into hitting him so he can get an easy retal later. So now you have to inspect everyone's roster because any easyish team could be a "trapcake."

    Oh my God, I didn't even know that was a thing...
    Ugh...see, this is why I haven't poured one single iso into any of my 5*s.


    Sad to say that I'm only a 4* player and I knew "trapcakes" were a thing. Every now and then I'll see teams of non-boosted 3*s and/or non-boosted level 220-250 4*s that are hiding teams of level 400+(even champed) 5*s waiting to come down on 4* teams hard.
  • zodiac339
    zodiac339 Posts: 1,948 Chairperson of the Boards
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    DAC169 said:
    Jarvind said:
    - Also, that easy-to-beat 4* team you miraculously found? Yeah, check that guy's roster: he's got megachamped 5*s! What gives? Ah, yes, he's trying to bait you into hitting him so he can get an easy retal later. So now you have to inspect everyone's roster because any easyish team could be a "trapcake."

    Oh my God, I didn't even know that was a thing...
    Ugh...see, this is why I haven't poured one single iso into any of my 5*s.


    Sad to say that I'm only a 4* player and I knew "trapcakes" were a thing. Every now and then I'll see teams of non-boosted 3*s and/or non-boosted level 220-250 4*s that are hiding teams of level 400+(even champed) 5*s waiting to come down on 4* teams hard.
    Guilty-ish. No Champ 5s. Highest champ is 286 Cyclops. But I try to start with 2* on the seed teams and use relatively appropriate heroes on retaliations. I prefer not to go all out against everyone until the last 24 hours or so.
  • Felonius
    Felonius Posts: 289 Mover and Shaker
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    @Jarvind, I recently champed 5* Black Panther, my first and only fully covered 5* at the time.  I knew it was foolish and I would regret doing it at the time, but I kept getting "lucky" and getting more of his covers that I hated selling, so I finally said F-it, and champed him.  My PvE scaling went up, and now I have all the same problems you describe in PvP. Only I don't yet have a second champ 5*.  My OML has 12 covers and my Thanos just got covered yesterday, so I'll try to get ISO into him as soon as I can, but it's surely been an adjustment. 

    I've never been big into PvP so it's not too bad, but I used to be able to get to 800-900 pretty easily, and that's where I'd contently stop.  Now I'm having trouble even hitting 575 without spending all my health packs.  It feels like I went to being a medium fish in a small pool to being a micro fish in a large ocean.

    I am on Line and I do use it to socially interact with my PvE alliance-mates and coordinate how we're doing Boss Events, that sort of thing.  While I'm not in any PvP channels, my mates have made arrangements in the past for me to merc out for PvP-end occasionally when I score high enough.  And even that is typically more than I like to do (sometimes I don't even bother).  I definitely have no interest in using Line to coordinate my blarglebarging as you described with your intergalactic game.  I feel ya.  No thanks.

    Anyway, totally agree with your posts here.  I'm another cautionary tale to anyone else.  DO NOT JOIN 5* LAND unless you really mean it.  LOL

  • Pongie
    Pongie Posts: 1,410 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Felonius Black Panther will be locked out next event, so you will get a temporary relief from 5* mmr. 

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,537 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Ok, Ducky made a good point regarding the thread devolving into a thread on advice on how to transition to the 5* tier... so I made it's own thread on that.  I copied what I had here, edited it a bit to be more general and gave it some nice tags.  Feel free to post your own experiences and advice there.

  • Jabrony_Geoff
    Jabrony_Geoff Posts: 378 Mover and Shaker
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    Great original post.