Let's talk about softcapping

System
System Posts: 1,032 Chairperson of the Boards
in Roster and Level Help
This discussion was created from comments split from: How to keep things interesting while hoarding.
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  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    msp2211 said:
    I have been working on champing my vaulted 4*s, while trying to also champ as many new, good current 4*.

    I pulled all of my cp and latest for Thanos. It was not much, but, 660 cp and 9 latest plus everything earned in the 18 weeks he was in latest should have left me with more than the 7 cover Thanos i have. What it did give me was many 4*s fully covered and iso poor as Warbringa mentioned.

    1240 cp and 29 LL in 2 1/2 seasons is where I'm  at now. I have 33 champ 4* with 3 more fully covered. Hawkguy and starlod 3*s to champ too. I can refill my 2*farm.

    My question is: Is it better to be a 5* player, or a 4* player? Do i want to have 3 champed 5* that I'm forced to use on everything? Or, do i pull classic legendaries and have a few 300+ 4* champs? For those who have made the transition to 5*, is it worth it? I play a hybrid style and enjoy both PVP and PVE. 
    Perhaps it's best, right now, to be a 5* softcap player.  Fully cover some 5*s, but softcap them somewhere between 360 and 380.  At the same time, try to get some 4*s up to 320 or so.  From everything I've heard, playing with 5* Champs isn't that great, and I believe their misery wants company (or at least a larger pool of players to fight). 
  • Fightmastermpq
    Fightmastermpq Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    bbigler said:
    Perhaps it's best, right now, to be a 5* softcap player.  
    Said no one ever.  Seriously, don't do that.  Have you seen the tests they are running?  Level your 5s and stop playing on the JV team.
  • BoyWonder1914
    BoyWonder1914 Posts: 884 Critical Contributor
    Fightmastermpq said:
    Said no one ever.  Seriously, don't do that.  Have you seen the tests they are running?  Level your 5s and stop playing on the JV team. 


    Says everyone that doesn't follow your "friends don't let friends softcap" philosophy.......so most people.  
  • Fightmastermpq
    Fightmastermpq Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    Fightmastermpq said:
    Said no one ever.  Seriously, don't do that.  Have you seen the tests they are running?  Level your 5s and stop playing on the JV team. 


    Says everyone that doesn't follow your "friends don't let friends softcap" philosophy.......so most people.  
    Uh huh.  And how is that working for them during the Sandman release, hmm???

    Keep softcapping, friend.
  • Calnexin
    Calnexin Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    Fightmastermpq said:
    Said no one ever.  Seriously, don't do that.  Have you seen the tests they are running?  Level your 5s and stop playing on the JV team. 


    Says everyone that doesn't follow your "friends don't let friends softcap" philosophy.......so most people.  
    Amen.  I've heard the 5* players complaining about their PvP climb.  I quite like what D3's been doing with the 4* tier and intend to stay there for the foreseeable future.
  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,010 Chairperson of the Boards
    Fightmastermpq said:
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    Fightmastermpq said:
    Said no one ever.  Seriously, don't do that.  Have you seen the tests they are running?  Level your 5s and stop playing on the JV team. 


    Says everyone that doesn't follow your "friends don't let friends softcap" philosophy.......so most people.  
    Uh huh.  And how is that working for them during the Sandman release, hmm???

    Keep softcapping, friend.
    Until they make the SCL tests permanent the soft capping crowd definitely has some solid arguments in their favor, both in PVP and PVE.  

    In PVP champing two 5*s instantly shrinks your pool of available targets in MMR to a guppy pool where the newcomer is the smallest of guppies swimming with the biggest of sharks until you hit 900 or so.  

    In PVE clears are so much faster in every event but the test events.  Once they become permanent then there will be a very solid argument for taking the leap but for now it is still one event out of three.  


  • Rodolfo78
    Rodolfo78 Posts: 70 Match Maker
    Fightmastermpq said:
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    Fightmastermpq said:
    Said no one ever.  Seriously, don't do that.  Have you seen the tests they are running?  Level your 5s and stop playing on the JV team. 


    Says everyone that doesn't follow your "friends don't let friends softcap" philosophy.......so most people.  
    Uh huh.  And how is that working for them during the Sandman release, hmm???

    Keep softcapping, friend.


    Fair point. I'm pretty much a 3* player, and I expect to be top 50 in SCL7, maybe t20 if I bust my butt. The 10 fastest clears are all champed 5* players.

    Still, you have to admit that those players are Courting Death almost exclusively. There's certainly a rush in trying to win, regardless of how repetitive it is, but there's equal enjoyment to be had from trying to win with a much wider variety of experiences along the way.

    When my 5* start to accumulate covers, I intend to grow them at the pace of my champ 4s, no faster. I guess that's softcapping, but I think that's OK. You'd rather ride Thanos to T1, I'd rather enjoy an interesting path to T20... that's why they make chocolate and vanilla.

  • Fightmastermpq
    Fightmastermpq Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    My boosted 4s are starting to clear tougher PvE nodes faster than my 5s which allow me to have PvP success.  Softcapping is dumb, you shouldn't recommend it to anyone that you respect.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2017
    Fightmastermpq said:
    My boosted 4s are starting to clear tougher PvE nodes faster than my 5s which allow me to have PvP success.  Softcapping is dumb, you shouldn't recommend it to anyone that you respect.
    Softcapping is smart to avoid level 440 PVE enemies and level 550 PVP opponents (and not using the same 3 characters for every battle).
  • Fightmastermpq
    Fightmastermpq Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    bbigler said:
    Fightmastermpq said:
    My boosted 4s are starting to clear tougher PvE nodes faster than my 5s which allow me to have PvP success.  Softcapping is dumb, you shouldn't recommend it to anyone that you respect.
    Softcapping is smart to avoid level 440 PVE enemies and level 550 PVP opponents (and not using the same 3 characters for every battle).
    Keep softcapping, friend.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    Softcapping was a way to exploit a broken system much like cupcakes were in PVP. D3 fixed the latter, and now it looks like they're going to fix the former. God bless.
    I would call softcapping a strategy and not an exploit, because there's nothing wrong with doing it.  Exploit is actually defined as a "bold or daring feat", so I think a lot of people use that word wrong.  Anyway, you both made the assumption that I was softcapping myself because I supported someone else doing it.  Well, I'm not softcapping because I don't have any fully covered 5*s.

    When I do though, I plan to softcap and see how my PVE & PVP experience goes.  If it gets easier, then great!  But I've heard many people say that it gets tougher playing PVP with champed 5*s, so why would I want to do that to myself?  If they fix PVE scaling for 5*s, then that's an incentive to champ them, but until then, softcapping is smart. 

    It's not like I have to keep them softcapped forever anyway.  I can champ them whenever I want.  Perhaps it's best to champ 5*s when I have a variety of them to use, not just 3.
  • spghttihead
    spghttihead Posts: 74 Match Maker
    edited June 2017
    I wish I hadn't champed my two 5*s. As people have mentioned, I'm stuck using them in every PVP as all my opponents are champed 5* teams. It's a bummer when there's a good boosted 4* week and I can't even use them. Luckily I can still use my 4* characters in PVE. If I could go back I would've left mine softcapped at 360.

    Because of this, I've been hoarding since I now HAVE to move into a way of being able to champ 5*s since I don't want to always be stuck using OML and PHX. At least if I have a few more 5*s that'll add some variety. I've always wanted a Green Goblin but since he's stuck in classics I'll have to hope a time comes where they make it reasonable to get covers of 5*s in the classics.

    In keeping with the post, to keep myself busy it's mostly just enjoying the 2* farm and watching LT and CP inventory grow. I can't wait to finally be able to pull. So much so that I'm sure I'll be stuck with a fully covered Star Lord and Doc Octopus as I don't know if I can wait until they rotate out.
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,496 Chairperson of the Boards
    bbigler said:

    When I do though, I plan to softcap and see how my PVE & PVP experience goes.  If it gets easier, then great!  But I've heard many people say that it gets tougher playing PVP with champed 5*s, so why would I want to do that to myself?  If they fix PVE scaling for 5*s, then that's an incentive to champ them, but until then, softcapping is smart. 

    LOL

    Literally 99% of the 5* population is already effectively softcapping some of their 5* because they can't afford the iso across the 19 5*.

    Once your past the 2nd 5* champ, the game becomes more about finding team synergies based on boosts and opponents and how you create color coverage for weaker chars to prolong play.

    weak 5* rosters have problems because they don't have a good base of 2*/3*/4* support feeding resources and don't have the ability to drop in a champed Antman, px  or blah blah based on the opponent and node format.

    We are definitely at the stage where not having a heavy champed 3* feature becomes a real liability in pvp, and the width of the 5* tier now demands that you have teams to do damage via strike, or through some non special tile nuke, or deal with CD based attacks.

  • Fightmastermpq
    Fightmastermpq Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    bbigler said:
     Exploit is actually defined as a "bold or daring feat"
    It can also mean "a software tool designed to take advantage of a flaw in a computer system, typically for malicious purposes".....I'll let you guess which definition we are using when we use the term "exploit" here.
  • vinsensual
    vinsensual Posts: 458 Mover and Shaker
    Also another reason why I'm hoarding.  Unless enemy scaling specific SCLs become the norm, I would hate to fight 45000 health Juggernauts and Moonstones with Starlord and Doc Oc, just because that's what RNG decided to give me.  
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Fightmastermpq said:
    bbigler said:
    Perhaps it's best, right now, to be a 5* softcap player.  
    Said no one ever.  Seriously, don't do that.  Have you seen the tests they are running?  Level your 5s and stop playing on the JV team.
     
    Said plenty of people, myself included.  I generally don't softcap now but with them working on the change to base PvE scaling to SCL level softcapping will be way more viable than ever before, which is a good thing for longterm of the game.  It will probably bust PvP scaling but it's up to the individual to decide if that's OK for them or not.

  • Fightmastermpq
    Fightmastermpq Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    broll said:
    Fightmastermpq said:
    bbigler said:
    Perhaps it's best, right now, to be a 5* softcap player.  
    Said no one ever.  Seriously, don't do that.  Have you seen the tests they are running?  Level your 5s and stop playing on the JV team.
     
    Said plenty of people, myself included.  I generally don't softcap now but with them working on the change to base PvE scaling to SCL level softcapping will be way more viable than ever before, which is a good thing for longterm of the game.  It will probably bust PvP scaling but it's up to the individual to decide if that's OK for them or not.

    Am I reading this right, how will fixed scaling make softcapping viable at all?  If the enemy levels don't change you would want the highest level roster possible to deal with them.  Which is how the game was meant to be played - they want you spending your ISO on the latest and greatest, not keeping them low to avoid a challenge.
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    Doesn't nearly everyone softcap, purposely or not? I roster nearly everyone and MPQ forces me to softcap some of them because I can't get enough ISO for everyone.

    I'm not a softcapper by choice. I would love to level up my level 86 1/4/3 Spider-Gwen to win her crash but then that just sets me back from champing level 172 Ant-Man and level 160 IW, both who could be champed currently. So its Ant-Man, then IW, and then I can look into bringing others into the mix.
  • Fightmastermpq
    Fightmastermpq Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    Beer40 said:
    Doesn't nearly everyone softcap, purposely or not? I roster nearly everyone and MPQ forces me to softcap some of them because I can't get enough ISO for everyone.

    I'm not a softcapper by choice. I would love to level up my level 86 1/4/3 Spider-Gwen to win her crash but then that just sets me back from champing level 172 Ant-Man and level 160 IW, both who could be champed currently. So its Ant-Man, then IW, and then I can look into bringing others into the mix.
    That's not what softcapping is.  Softcapping is not putting ISO into your best characters for fear of better characters making the game too hard for you.

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