Actual scaling levels in Thick as Thieves?

2

Comments

  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    Pla5yer99 said:
    Please fix the scaling for scl8, 3 star rosters can't deal with enemies at level 388. 1 goon power goes off and my entire team is dead. Please fix it!
    I was a little confused about them running the test the same again (except fixing an apparent bug in top levels) but really its a great idea. They probably need to run this same exact test 2 or 3 more times so people can really get an idea where they belong in the clearance levels. 

    The player I quoted above clearly does not belong in what MPQ wants SCL8 to be. I'm sure others are in the same spot. So run the test a few more times and let everyone find their sweet spot.

    Its very possible we don't need SCL9 and 10 yet, just a revamp to the existing rewards and a player base that can find a level that works the best for them consistently.

    Personally, since the "latest 12" are so easy to come by now, unless its one I very much want (doubtful) then I am going to be dropping down every test because I prefer the shorter clear times. If its a vaulted 4* then I will still play at SCL 8 and maximize rewards.
  • Pants1000
    Pants1000 Posts: 484 Mover and Shaker
    I agree 3* rosters don't belong in CL8, but the game doesn't make that clear.  Maybe the minimum shield rank should be 75 or 80, not 52 or whatever it is.

    FWIW my shield rank is 102, I have 30+ champed 4's, no champed 5's, and I'm playing in CL7 for this test.
  • zodiac339
    zodiac339 Posts: 1,948 Chairperson of the Boards
    This SCL-based thing, if it remains, just needs a fix of "scaled to a cap" to work more appropriately. Not fixed levels across the entire range of players, but a range of final difficulty that works within your roster scaling. Weaker rosters would still be burned in SCL8 early on by enemies maxing at, what, 300 minimum? But then enemies would still max at 400, so strong rosters reach a threshold where everything starts becoming much easier. I thought that's what it was going to be, and it made so much sense, but then they just determined "same level for everyone!" That really hurts any potential sense of growth a player might have when they randomly get hit by enemies easier by 20 levels one event, then 40 levels harder on another event.
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    Phumade said:
    Honestly,  the Devs really don't have a good way to individually scale difficulty and make it fair to all classes of players.  The damage health curves are too sensitive and even minor changes make the game lopsidedly easy or hard.

    I think they are giving up on trying to scale difficulty to your roster.  Rather,  they are setting the difficulty evenly across the entire shard.

    The onus is on the Player to determine the appropriate balance of reward, difficulty, and playtime.
    I agree with this. Maintaining, and tweaking, the code necessary to get roster based scaling to work at its best seems like a pretty tough task. I would rather they set a static scaling, let us decide whats best for us, and devote more of their time to improving other aspects of the game. 

    I think the difference is something that constantly has to be worked on (roster scaling) vs something they can put in place and leave alone to work on other projects (SCL scaling).
  • zodiac339
    zodiac339 Posts: 1,948 Chairperson of the Boards
    So, if static scaling, will anyone ever play SCL 10 with level 550 enemies?
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    zodiac339 said:
    So, if static scaling, will anyone ever play SCL 10 with level 550 enemies?
    Depends what the rewards are, obviously
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    @MarkersMake

    Hi Everyone. Just as an FYI, the Message of the Day actually contained a notice about the Thick as Thieves event having the adjusted difficulty levels. Here is that portion of the MOTD:

    "Thick as Thieves will also have difficulty based on S.H.I.E.L.D. Clearance Levels. Please select the enemy level range you wish to play against for this event."

    If you would like to view this message in-game, just go to the Settings button in the top-left corner, and select Today's News at the bottom of the pop-up menu.
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    zodiac339 said:
    So, if static scaling, will anyone ever play SCL 10 with level 550 enemies?
    As said above: Yes, if the rewards are right. And if they don't and MPQ has went to the effort to put out SCL10? Then you'll probably see the change to accessible SCL levels based on something (your level probably). But that is probably going to go both ways, lets not get confused about that. Sure the 5* rosters might not be able to go down to 7 anymore, but there generally is a balance to everything, so the 3* rosters probably won't be able to go up to 7 either. So instead of the wide freedom to chose your SCL we may end up with less choice than before.
  • gentgeen
    gentgeen Posts: 99 Match Maker
    Very sick of this to be honest .... Go look at my history, I don't complain much, but let me put this all together for D3/who ever reads....


    I am at SL 8 ... I am currently a "3* player" with most all 3* champed, but majority of my 4* undercovered. I tend to play with 3star teams. 

    So a few weeks ago you tell me that I have to play 5 rounds to make full progress ... since then you run two of these "fixed scaling" TRAIN WRECKS.  My ability to clear that 5th round on all these nodes are a luck of the board ... I am flying through health packs, using teamups and boasts like never before... and I am still working on the first round of thick of theives (Family Reunion) ... 

    THIS IS NOT FUN 

    I tried to play last scaling so you could have same valid data... I really want to play this one (and I am hoping to at least get a cover for my Iron Fist ... but I just don't see it happening 




  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,010 Chairperson of the Boards
    Starfury said:
    Yeah, same thing as last time. They didn't even bother to inform people before they had the chance to choose an SCL they never had a chance of completing.

    That's just damn sloppy.

    As for those enemy levels: No way I'm sending my 4* team up against several nodes of maxchamped 3* each day. SCL 7 all the way. So thanks for the saved time and the reward downgrade. And good luck to any 3* rosters.
    The sign up page had the levels listed on each tab for each SCL.  Told you exactly what the levels would be.  

    Having said that more of a warning is never a bad thing.  If only threads were still allowed in General Discussion without being immediately sent to die in other forums.  
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    gentgeen said:
    Very sick of this to be honest .... Go look at my history, I don't complain much, but let me put this all together for D3/who ever reads....


    I am at SL 8 ... I am currently a "3* player" with most all 3* champed, but majority of my 4* undercovered. I tend to play with 3star teams. 

    So a few weeks ago you tell me that I have to play 5 rounds to make full progress ... since then you run two of these "fixed scaling" TRAIN WRECKS.  My ability to clear that 5th round on all these nodes are a luck of the board ... I am flying through health packs, using teamups and boasts like never before... and I am still working on the first round of thick of theives (Family Reunion) ... 

    THIS IS NOT FUN 

    I tried to play last scaling so you could have same valid data... I really want to play this one (and I am hoping to at least get a cover for my Iron Fist ... but I just don't see it happening 




    As a 3* player you shouldn't select SCL8.  I'm a solid 4* player and I'm not willing to fight in SCL8 and risk level 400s.  They are giving you the choice to play with lighter scaling and you need to take it.  For reference in SCL7 my toughest battle was level 244 which should totally be doable for decent 3* roster.
  • Killians8
    Killians8 Posts: 134 Tile Toppler
    Phumade said:

    The onus is on the Player to determine the appropriate balance of reward, difficulty, and playtime.
    As it should be. Seems a much better system to match rewards to SCL levels and those who try without the right roster should struggle to get the high level rewards and drop down where they can make progress faster and then step up later when they're roster is ready for it.
  • gentgeen
    gentgeen Posts: 99 Match Maker
    broll said:
    gentgeen said:
    Very sick of this to be honest .... Go look at my history, I don't complain much, but let me put this all together for D3/who ever reads....


    I am at SL 8 ... I am currently a "3* player" with most all 3* champed, but majority of my 4* undercovered. I tend to play with 3star teams. 

    So a few weeks ago you tell me that I have to play 5 rounds to make full progress ... since then you run two of these "fixed scaling" TRAIN WRECKS.  My ability to clear that 5th round on all these nodes are a luck of the board ... I am flying through health packs, using teamups and boasts like never before... and I am still working on the first round of thick of theives (Family Reunion) ... 

    THIS IS NOT FUN 

    I tried to play last scaling so you could have same valid data... I really want to play this one (and I am hoping to at least get a cover for my Iron Fist ... but I just don't see it happening 




    As a 3* player you shouldn't select SCL8.  I'm a solid 4* player and I'm not willing to fight in SCL8 and risk level 400s.  They are giving you the choice to play with lighter scaling and you need to take it.  For reference in SCL7 my toughest battle was level 244 which should totally be doable for decent 3* roster.
    I agree that I am 'given the choice' but as has been made clear in this thread already ... the "notice" was actually tacked on the bottom of the "New Character" screen.... and it came out AFTER I had already chosen my normal level.  Since I don't check out the forums daily (like you said - quality of life choice) I don't always know about test "testing runs" until AFTER I have chosen the slice and level.

    I am also wondering (maybe I missed it also) ... but by browsing the different levels, do I get to see what the scaling is gonna be like.  Seems to me you only get an idea of the scaling once you have already joined OR if you wait until others have done it (ie check the forums).

    Do you NORMALLY play SL8 ?  or did you slide down just because of the test run?  I see a lot on the forum about that... so how does d3 even consider it a valid test if everyone changes their game play????

  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    gentgeen said:
    broll said:
    gentgeen said:
    Very sick of this to be honest .... Go look at my history, I don't complain much, but let me put this all together for D3/who ever reads....


    I am at SL 8 ... I am currently a "3* player" with most all 3* champed, but majority of my 4* undercovered. I tend to play with 3star teams. 

    So a few weeks ago you tell me that I have to play 5 rounds to make full progress ... since then you run two of these "fixed scaling" TRAIN WRECKS.  My ability to clear that 5th round on all these nodes are a luck of the board ... I am flying through health packs, using teamups and boasts like never before... and I am still working on the first round of thick of theives (Family Reunion) ... 

    THIS IS NOT FUN 

    I tried to play last scaling so you could have same valid data... I really want to play this one (and I am hoping to at least get a cover for my Iron Fist ... but I just don't see it happening 




    As a 3* player you shouldn't select SCL8.  I'm a solid 4* player and I'm not willing to fight in SCL8 and risk level 400s.  They are giving you the choice to play with lighter scaling and you need to take it.  For reference in SCL7 my toughest battle was level 244 which should totally be doable for decent 3* roster.
    I agree that I am 'given the choice' but as has been made clear in this thread already ... the "notice" was actually tacked on the bottom of the "New Character" screen.... and it came out AFTER I had already chosen my normal level.  Since I don't check out the forums daily (like you said - quality of life choice) I don't always know about test "testing runs" until AFTER I have chosen the slice and level.

    I am also wondering (maybe I missed it also) ... but by browsing the different levels, do I get to see what the scaling is gonna be like.  Seems to me you only get an idea of the scaling once you have already joined OR if you wait until others have done it (ie check the forums).

    Do you NORMALLY play SL8 ?  or did you slide down just because of the test run?  I see a lot on the forum about that... so how does d3 even consider it a valid test if everyone changes their game play????

    Yes they totally should have announced it better and you have every right to be angry about that.  That being said they are never good at communicating and expect more tests, be warned...

    Yes in the SCL selection screen it shows levels during these tests (one way to tell if they haven't announced it well)

    As for if I normally do SCL8 or if I jumped down because of the scaling the answer is sort of yes and sort of no.  Typically I do SCL8 for every event except release events where I drop down to SCL7 so I don't risk missing the new release character.  That being said even if this wasn't a new release I would have dropped down.  My normal roster based scaling tops out at around 320-340.  So topping out in the 385-400 range I could probably do but it would significantly slow me down/eat health packs (especially if there are lot of dark avengers in the final nodes, especially Juggernaut).
  • StarScream
    StarScream Posts: 147 Tile Toppler
    revskip said:
    The sign up page had the levels listed on each tab for each SCL.  Told you exactly what the levels would be. 
    No, it did not. On either of my accounts.
  • evade420
    evade420 Posts: 440 Mover and Shaker
    edited June 2017
    Ok for those wondering about the enemy level range...
    Scaling has always been higher for nodes with 2 enemies (ie mags and hood) or 1 ( hulk) and goons scale different and 4* required node scales different as well
    ,so when it says 260-400 you need to take this into account
    ie: in scl 8 the max level enemy will be level 400 , you'll only see this when you face a single or 2 enemy node. Hardest 3 enemy node will max out around level 390, and 4* required will max out around level 350.
    These are the same differences we've  always seen , the base levels range is now just capped by scl
  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,010 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2017
    StarScream said:
    revskip said:
    The sign up page had the levels listed on each tab for each SCL.  Told you exactly what the levels would be. 
    No, it did not. On either of my accounts.
    @StarScream
     
    See the screenshot Broll posted.  It absolutely did, you probably just didn't look at it since it usually doesn't have any extra info.  


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