PvP is beyond broken thanks to powered heroes

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  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2017
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    PVP, like life, is frequently unfair. Unless you have max-champed 5*s, there's always going to be someone with a bigger, badder roster than you that can effortlessly hit you. 

    Your options are:

    A: Spend eleventy hojillion dollars and get you a maxed Thanos/Black Bolt/Panther team (those would be my choices, anyway)

    B: Do what everyone else does and find a way to work within the (admittedly very poorly designed) system

    C: Don't play PVP
  • Spidurman27
    Spidurman27 Posts: 184 Tile Toppler
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    Like above - it's a grind to progress.  A couple seasons ago the wall for me was somewhere around 800, and I rarely tested it.  I'd float push late and shield out somewhere in the 700s.  In April, my roster started coming together and I've been champing at a high-end clip since then.  And now I can hit 900 any event that I want to, boosted or no boosted (I'll always have something boosted with 17+ champs).  I could probably push higher, but I'm stingy with HP in my own way.  

    If you have a dozen+ 4* champs and are hitting the wall that hard, you frankly probably aren't playing optimally.  I got lucky to have several good teachers along the way.  

    And I 100% agree that the boosted list is a good thing - it creates week-to-week variety, otherwise we'd just see the same two man (woman) teams that we get in sim.  Having one iteration affected and one not is good because it creates those two differing environments to play in, which I like.
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2017
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    FokaiHI said:
    Wow. Your arguments are that you don't have any powered 4*s so it shouldn't be in pvp. You don't have Ms. Marvel, therefore she is broken. 

    Btw, what good would any OML do you if your roster can't handle 380+? Your OML would only hurt you. 
    You miss my point, but never mind, i was expecting that kind of prejudice.
    In the end, i reached 575 pts i wanted... you know how? I was using Ms Marvel with Wasp - yes she is broken, despite i own her. Hard to compete against multiple of 3 000 strike tiles in 10th round :D
    Thats why i have her almost maxed and why she replaced OML (and other 4*s and 5*s, except for Hawkeye who is also broken - with chars like Wasp, Loki, Peggy -  and makes great synergy with her) along with Carnage + Medusa long time ago.
    And yes, even if i had powered 4*s, i would still complain - scalling is insane for 4*s, where powered 4* is twice as strong as non-powered 4*s with same level. Why should we have this kind of (dis)advantage?
    But to please you, i will make this thread AGAIN when PvP with powered up 4*s i own will appear.
  • beyonderbub
    beyonderbub Posts: 661 Critical Contributor
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    What is "broken" exactly with "Ms Marvel" (or is it 4* Captain Marvel or is it Wasp; not clear from your posts)? 
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,196 Chairperson of the Boards
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    veny said:
    Seriously, why do we need powered 4*s in Pvp - its a total tinykitty. I cant fight level 380 4*s with my 4*s or even 5*s.
    OML is super useless same as most of 5*s and thanks to you super smart vaulting, i cant get most of 4*s.
    Not mentioning some broken characters like 4* Ms Marvel...
    PS: I would place poll here, but this stupid new "better" forum have poll/no poll threads separated...

    I just wish the skip feature worked and didn't keep giving me the same match over and over and over again that I cant win.
  • xidragonxi
    xidragonxi Posts: 253 Mover and Shaker
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    veny said:

    And yes, even if i had powered 4*s, i would still complain - scalling is insane for 4*s, where powered 4* is twice as strong as non-powered 4*s with same level. Why should we have this kind of (dis)advantage?
    Haha, wait until you get to 5* scaling where the only teams you fight are other 5*s and because there's only 15 of them there's no variety and you can never use your unboosted 4*s ever again.
  • astrp3
    astrp3 Posts: 367 Mover and Shaker
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    I think there may be one legitimate criticism in there - the longstanding complaint that you sometimes get punished for improving your roster. That is, you level up your characters, only to find that you can no longer score as high as you used to in PvP. That has been my experience over the last four months, though the effect has been small and I suspect the situation is only temporary.

    Four seasons ago, I had a three-star roster (probably about half of them champed) and was able to reach 800 in PvP 5 or 6 times and top fifty every time. The next season, I only hit 800 once. The season after that I hit it twice an my average score was 742. Last season, I didn't hit it at all and my average was 678, despite the fact that I now had all the 3*s champed and a handful of 4*s leveled to 180 and fully covered (the problem was that my opponent strength was increasing at a much faster rate than my own roster) .

    A week ago, I champed my first three 4*s. Now most of the opponents I see once I get near the top fifty include two boosted 4*s. In Army of One, I was able to get top fifty and in No Good News, I think I'll be able to do the same, but that' s because I have 4* Cage. Next week, I will have six champed 4*s but suspect that none will be boosted and I'm worried that I won't be able to get top fifty. I think I will still be able to get to 575, but we'll see.

    So, as I've improved my roster from 3* to 4*, my PvP point totals and rewards have declined (if only slightly), which doesn't seem right.

    OTOH, as I said, I'm sure this is only temporary and once I get more 4* champs, I expect to be able to start reaching 800 again, and even 900 (which I've never done).

    For those in 4* land, was it the case for you that when you initially started champing 4*s, your PvP performance declined temporarily? If not,  maybe I just need to adjust my playing style (I don't really shield hop and only use one shield at 8 hours.

  • FokaiHI
    FokaiHI Posts: 272 Mover and Shaker
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    I wouldn't say M4rvel is broken. I would say that the new 4*s are much better now than the older ones. I think they are working as intended and have changed the game. Peggy/ 4thor/ Iceman matched with IM40 was the norm. At least now there is a little more variety. Not much, but some. 


  • Spidurman27
    Spidurman27 Posts: 184 Tile Toppler
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    @astrp3 I'm a couple months ahead of you, so similar situation.  You'll have to hop for the 900.  I can get to around 850 normally in a climb, and that's around one hop for the cover.  As you get more quality and more boosted 4s, you'll be able to float higher and play faster matches, which will lead to easier time in PVP.

    Also, you're always in a bad scaling spot early in a level transition I've noticed - my scaling has barely moved (maybe 4 or 5 PVE levels for the CP node) in the last dozen champs.  

    When I was in 3* and early 4* I played a similar style to you, I had to change it up ALOT to survive in 4* land.   I don't mind though, I'm not playing that much more....just spending HP on shields instead of vaults.
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
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    What is "broken" exactly with "Ms Marvel" (or is it 4* Captain Marvel or is it Wasp; not clear from your posts)? 
    Her ability to create extremely powerful special tiles with her yellow passive (insane synergy with Wasp, 5* Hawkeye, Loki, 3* Blade etc.). Also her green passive is very strong.
  • keitterman
    keitterman Posts: 127 Tile Toppler
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    I dislike the PvP system in that you can gain up to 1k points, and if you don't shield, you will drop down to 500 in a matter of hours, but that isn't what you are complaining about.

    Boosted 4*'s makes it so that there's some variety in the 5* tier. Without them, PvP at the 5* level would just be 2 of the the same 13-ish 5*'s plus a powered 3*. every event.
  • DesertTortoise
    DesertTortoise Posts: 392 Mover and Shaker
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    Weekly boosts is the absolute best thing this game has going for it when it comes to variety and testing roster depth. Without boosted heroes I would have burned out from using Peggy/Rulk on everything. 
  • BoyWonder1914
    BoyWonder1914 Posts: 884 Critical Contributor
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    PVP's design, and the boosted list, are separate issues. There's a boosted list every week, and there's PVP every week, the 2 just happen to coincide in that PVP lets you use the boosted list (Shield SIM does not, and PVE includes other "essentials"). 

    Like everyone else has pointed out, I don't think your issue is with having a boosted list period, but rather that your MMR plugs you up against the 2 boosted heavy-hitters, sometimes immediately after clearing the seed nodes. I jumped into Army of One with about 6 hours left, and there were no seeds. The first 3 nodes available to me all had C4ge/Ant-Man, for differing amounts of points. Luckily that combo was still beatable with my own C4ge/Medusa, but if I didn't have AT LEAST C4ge champed, I'd have been screwed from the get-go. After I got past 200 I started seeing more 3-star teams, so yeah something's wonky with MMR. You can hit skip 10 times and might still see the exact same team. 
  • granne
    granne Posts: 852 Critical Contributor
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    Cage is my only boosted 4* champ this week, and PvP's been fine. Boosts aren't the issue - finding teams with synergy is the issue. Cage plays well with a lot of others, so I was happy to take a variety of unboosted 4*s into fights. If you don't have Cage or Teen Jean then I imagine this week will suck. Other weeks will be better.
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,196 Chairperson of the Boards
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    People always get mad when Jean is boosted. She is pretty strong, albeit not too difficult to fight, just have to work around her blue ability.

    I've seen a lot of cage and jean parings, I use to skip them bc reasons, but they actually aren't too difficult to manage.

    A team that beats them pretty easily ( At least for me) is Antman(5-5-3)/HG/IM40 ( obviously) or Antman(5-3-5)/HG/Peggy and Antman(5-3-5)/HG/Gamora(5-5-3). Just keep them stunned and let antmans yellow do the work or grow punch them, it does over 20k. If you really wanna go super try-hard, Antman and Carol make a nasty combo, even my lvl188 carol does work. If all 6 of antman's yellow goes off, you will hit for over 5 k a turn if not more.

  • nonnel
    nonnel Posts: 128 Tile Toppler
    edited June 2017
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    PVP has been broken for 3 years...   and yet, here we all are.  Nothing to see here 
  • Celerial
    Celerial Posts: 15 Just Dropped In
    edited June 2017
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    veny said:
    FokaiHI said:
    Wow. Your arguments are that you don't have any powered 4*s so it shouldn't be in pvp. You don't have Ms. Marvel, therefore she is broken. 

    Btw, what good would any OML do you if your roster can't handle 380+? Your OML would only hurt you. 
    You miss my point, but never mind, i was expecting that kind of prejudice.
    In the end, i reached 575 pts i wanted... you know how? I was using Ms Marvel with Wasp - yes she is broken, despite i own her. Hard to compete against multiple of 3 000 strike tiles in 10th round :D
    Thats why i have her almost maxed and why she replaced OML (and other 4*s and 5*s, except for Hawkeye who is also broken - with chars like Wasp, Loki, Peggy -  and makes great synergy with her) along with Carnage + Medusa long time ago.
    And yes, even if i had powered 4*s, i would still complain - scalling is insane for 4*s, where powered 4* is twice as strong as non-powered 4*s with same level. Why should we have this kind of (dis)advantage?
    But to please you, i will make this thread AGAIN when PvP with powered up 4*s i own will appear.
    I'm still not sure I understand your criticisms.  There are many issues with PvP, but I don't think powered 4s is one of them.

    And seriously, 575 was your goal?  I hit that and I still have zero champed 4s.  I dont say that to brag, the point is even a champ 3 roster can reach that goal with regularity, so maybe the issue is more about strategy? I can't get much farther, but like others said, the game is a marathon.
  • edgewriter
    edgewriter Posts: 68 Match Maker
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    I just get bored fighting the same team so many times in a row. Especially in simulator where everything is some mix of Peggy IM40 and some other of the current twelve, often wasp or Captain M. So tired of those same characters.
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I just get bored fighting the same team so many times in a row. Especially in simulator where everything is some mix of Peggy IM40 and some other of the current twelve, often wasp or Captain M. So tired of those same characters.
    I wish I had your problem and could fight those teams. I'd be happy and not bored.
  • edgewriter
    edgewriter Posts: 68 Match Maker
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    I just get bored fighting the same team so many times in a row. Especially in simulator where everything is some mix of Peggy IM40 and some other of the current twelve, often wasp or Captain M. So tired of those same characters.
    I wish I had your problem and could fight those teams. I'd be happy and not bored.
    I've been playing three years to get to this point. I've been where you are too. Vailting four stars has led to a bunch of people being able to get usable 4 stars quicker. Only problem is that everyone has those same twelve frigging four stars.

    I currently have 24 champed four stars, twelve covered four stars that I am waiting for ISO for so and several more that are like 5-4-0, 5-1-1, or 5-1-5.  I guess I have gotten farther just to have a different set of annoyances, Lol.