Does vaulting cause meta lockout?

zaku

If vaulting is intended to help cover more recent characters faster, doesn't that also mean that those who aren't able to win rewards in the first place are getting shut out of competition climbing? 
For example, someone with older 4* that are well-covered have no way to compete with current meta. I've found that champed jeanbuster teams are almost no match for the newer friends like wasp, pegs, and medusa
Thoughts?

Borstock

Cover the new heroes is the answer. No part of the game is so impossible that you can't make reasonable progress "from this point forward" unless you don't have a required hero at all. Then, you're locked out of a node and boned. 

jredd

it does seem as though there's a changing of the guard so to speak. but what do you expect? under the old system it might be 6 months to cover a character. now it's 2 -4 weeks, if not quicker. everyone has the new characters champed. it really reduces the variety of teams you see in pvp, and certainly the variation in the levels of those characters. they want to promote diversity and a usefulness of having a complete roster, well they're going to have to move away from the current system because it does the opposite.

Bloody_Marvel

Well there's always Heroes for Hire...

(hides behind a rock from incoming comments)

revskip

Having the older characters isn't really a handicap.  Just means you have a bigger variety of teams to choose from.  

For instance I climbed all the way through Shield Sim using teams of 4*s that were unboosted for the weeks so I could use my boosted 4*s for PVE/PVP.  

MarkersMake

It's not vaulting - it's power inflation. New characters > old ones. 

Vaulting has just accelerated the acquisition rate of the new characters, so the power transition has been quicker. 

If you already have the old ones, you *should* be able to cover the new ones more quickly than newer players, unless you are a very casual player. If that's the case, then yes, you will be behind the curve. 

Fightmastermpq

Also, for the record JeanBuster was incredibly overrated.  Too good characters that the AI can't screw up, but they were slow on offense.  There are some much better synergies out there - especially among the newer characters.

Wumpushunter

Having the older characters is a boon. They are essential, you have them and newer people dont! You now can get better placement in both PVE and PVP.  And there is nothing stopping you from rostering and champing more characters. The people vaulting hurts most is new players with less then 200 days before it started, they cant get hulkbuster to play in a PVE essential node and has less points then those that do have him.

GoldenArm

Rulk and Iceman are still better than almost all new 4*s

Fightmastermpq

Wumpushunter said:

Having the older characters is a boon. They are essential, you have them and newer people dont! You now can get better placement in both PVE and PVP.  And there is nothing stopping you from rostering and champing more characters. The people vaulting hurts most is new players with less then 200 days before it started, they cant get hulkbuster to play in a PVE essential node and has less points then those that do have him.

Don't be ridiculous.  Where would newer players get the ISO to level all those old characters if they DID have them?  Older players have an advantage because they have had the time to collect the ISO to level so many characters in general - both old and new.  This is not a problem, it's the reward you get for playing the game for a really long time.

And you don't need 13 covers of a character to play a PvE essential node - you need one.  And you can always earn it as a reward from the previous event, or during the current one.

optimus2861

jredd said:

it does seem as though there's a changing of the guard so to speak. but what do you expect? under the old system it might be 6 months to cover a character. now it's 2 -4 weeks, if not quicker. everyone has the new characters champed.

Every now & then, you do see a reminder of just how crazy serious some people play this game. I, a sometimes sorta-serious, mostly sorta-casual player of 2+ years, just got my 7th 13-cover 4* total last week, and that was Spider-Woman (i.e. hardly on the top of anyone's list). And here's a casually dropped comment about having a new character champed in 2 weeks. I can't even conceive of the time & $$$ commitment to earn the covers & ISO necessary to do that.

*shrugs* It is what it is.

Magic

GoldenArm said:

Rulk and Iceman are still better than almost all new 4*s

That is only true when they are on the same level. But when your Rhulk is lvl 276 and Medusa 290 they will not compare as favorably. And when she gets to 300 or 330 or... you see when I am going with it. There is literally no way to level Rhulk or Iceman that high anymore. Sure - if you have them max championed they remain top of the line. Otherwise the power creep and the extra levels will soon push them down. 



@optimus2861 - 2 weeks is reasonable if you play PvE to max progression (now you get more ISO out of it as you need to grind a bit more), PvP to 575+, DDQ everyday (and you have all the toons to get max rewards everyday). Throw in some Lightning rounds or simulator and you are good. It was easier done when the intercepts were around so this might now take 14-15 days but I could max 4* in 10-12 with just the above + intercepts... not any more as I refuse to pay. This is not hardcore play (never green light all in PvE, I don't push high in PvP). It is for sure a hair above casual. 

Fightmastermpq

optimus2861 said:

jredd said:

it does seem as though there's a changing of the guard so to speak. but what do you expect? under the old system it might be 6 months to cover a character. now it's 2 -4 weeks, if not quicker. everyone has the new characters champed.

Every now & then, you do see a reminder of just how crazy serious some people play this game. I, a sometimes sorta-serious, mostly sorta-casual player of 2+ years, just got my 7th 13-cover 4* total last week, and that was Spider-Woman (i.e. hardly on the top of anyone's list). And here's a casually dropped comment about having a new character champed in 2 weeks. I can't even conceive of the time & $$$ commitment to earn the covers & ISO necessary to do that.

*shrugs* It is what it is.

Just to be clear, when we talk about champing a new character every two weeks we are only talking about making enough ISO to champ characters at that rate.  Earning all 13 covers needed for a brand new character within their first two weeks is incredibly difficult and would require a good bit of spending/luck/hoarding/etc.

Wumpushunter

Fightmastermpq said:

Wumpushunter said:

Having the older characters is a boon. They are essential, you have them and newer people dont! You now can get better placement in both PVE and PVP.  And there is nothing stopping you from rostering and champing more characters. The people vaulting hurts most is new players with less then 200 days before it started, they cant get hulkbuster to play in a PVE essential node and has less points then those that do have him.

Don't be ridiculous.  Where would newer players get the ISO to level all those old characters if they DID have them?  Older players have an advantage because they have had the time to collect the ISO to level so many characters in general - both old and new.  This is not a problem, it's the reward you get for playing the game for a really long time.

And you don't need 13 covers of a character to play a PvE essential node - you need one.  And you can always earn it as a reward from the previous event, or during the current one



1.  You go into a 6th node clear with one cover 4 star vs say 233 carnage, 232 doctor doom, and 232 ultranationalist prime and you are going to have a very bad day or you will if you aren't running 2 other fully covered champed 5s or 4s.

2. So basically mpq should pull their app because new players can never catch up or compete. Really good advertising strategy, play our game, be a second class player for all time.

revskip

Wumpushunter said:

1.  You go into a 6th node clear with one cover 4 star vs say 233 carnage, 232 doctor doom, and 232 ultranationalist prime and you are going to have a very bad day or you will if you aren't running 2 other fully covered champed 5s or 4s.

2. So basically mpq should pull their app because new players can never catch up or compete. Really good advertising strategy, play our game, be a second class player for all time.

1.  Sure 5th and 6th clears require a bit more synergy between the characters you bring when you have a poorly covered essential.  That is true whether it is the 2*, 3*, or 4*.  But even with a one cover Hulkbuster if you bring two other characters with synergy you can clear it.  It might take a couple extra minutes over someone who has him cover-maxed but it is definitely doable.  


2.  This is beyond hyperbolic.  This game, like most f2p games, requires one of two things to "catch up" to players.  Time invested or money invested.  If you spend you catch up more quickly.  If you play for free you can still catch up to casual players by investing more time than them.  

If you do both you can move really quickly, I am at 20+ 4* champs at 500 days.  The OP of this thread got his first 4* champ in 89 days!

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/63875/after-89-days-of-playing#latest

byc

The situation is to disillusion enough of the older players that they'll stop playing and then the problem will solve itself

Ducky

People aren't locked out of the meta, the meta simply shifts...just like it has over and over after every other change to game.

Punisher5784

Sure the new characters are better but now a majority of the players don't have older 4*s that are boosted. This gives me a huge advantage.. for instance, during Gamora PvP, sure everyone had Medusa but barely anyone had Cyke, whose boosted and awesome. I tore up this event to 900pts with no losses and a few defense wins. 

Dauthi

All the more reason for 4 star pvp. Most of the older 4 stars are just trophies now.

MaxxPowerz

It's a little annoying when you consider that you painstakingly took the time to level up these characters. The focus has definitely shifted towards newer characters; older characters feel like they are just there to compliment.

Fightmastermpq

revskip said:

Wumpushunter said:

1.  You go into a 6th node clear with one cover 4 star vs say 233 carnage, 232 doctor doom, and 232 ultranationalist prime and you are going to have a very bad day or you will if you aren't running 2 other fully covered champed 5s or 4s.

2. So basically mpq should pull their app because new players can never catch up or compete. Really good advertising strategy, play our game, be a second class player for all time.

1.  Sure 5th and 6th clears require a bit more synergy between the characters you bring when you have a poorly covered essential.  That is true whether it is the 2*, 3*, or 4*.  But even with a one cover Hulkbuster if you bring two other characters with synergy you can clear it.  It might take a couple extra minutes over someone who has him cover-maxed but it is definitely doable.  


2.  This is beyond hyperbolic.  This game, like most f2p games, requires one of two things to "catch up" to players.  Time invested or money invested.  If you spend you catch up more quickly.  If you play for free you can still catch up to casual players by investing more time than them.  

If you do both you can move really quickly, I am at 20+ 4* champs at 500 days.  The OP of this thread got his first 4* champ in 89 days!

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/63875/after-89-days-of-playing#latest

Exactly this.  I've been playing for over 2 years and I still haven't "caught up"  Several of the older vaulted 4*s are still underleveled but when they are essential I still manage to finish their nodes quickly enough to take a T10 finish if I put in the time throughout the event.  Sure it's a little tougher than if I had them champed,but to act like not having a well leveled essential character somehow makes me completely unable to compete is just ludicrous.