Fix for Arlinn Kord

Ekkias

@Brigby @Hibernum_JC
Since there are 0 werewolf creatures in Standard, please could you fix Arlinn Kord's third ability to function similar to Liliana 3's third ability.

Instead of targeting a werewolf,  have it add the werewolf subtype and +4/4 to any creature, and transform Arlinn Kord.

Should be a simple change, since you have the code resolved already. Thank you. 

wereotter

This has been discussed a lot, and people generally agree that this plus her second ability are unusable in standard because of the creature type restrictions. She's completely unable to tutor up a werewolf creature for you using her second ability considering how you can't add any to her deck.

My personal thoughts were to add to the creature types she can buff wolves and humans. There are only two wolves in standard right now, which would making adding only that type pretty limited, and is why I suggested humans as well. Humans are the most common creature type in the entire game meaning if it were expanded to include that, her abilities would not have to be adjusted again for future releases.

I like your idea too, though, and would be interesting to see that implemented.

Brigby

@Ekkias @wereotter

Hmm those are certainly interesting solutions that don't deviate too far from the original ability.

I'm not sure how difficult development-wise to change that ability, but I will certainly pass those suggestions along to them.

Laeuftbeidir

Brigby said:

@Ekkias @wereotter

Hmm those are certainly interesting solutions that don't deviate too far from the original ability.

I'm not sure how difficult development-wise to change that ability, but I will certainly pass those suggestions along to them.

Plus, it would actually make sense that she, as a werewolf infects others.
Actually, a lot of planeswalkers could need a redesign or slight buffs. Normally, these ideas seem to be ignored, so I'm positively surprised that this particular one is answered.

If they consider this change, I'm sure the community can come up with a lot of good ideas like this one!

Ekkias

Thank you @Brigby! We'd really appreciate green/red decks being a viable combination again. ❤

wereotter

Laeuftbeidir said:

Brigby said:

@Ekkias @wereotter

Hmm those are certainly interesting solutions that don't deviate too far from the original ability.

I'm not sure how difficult development-wise to change that ability, but I will certainly pass those suggestions along to them.

Plus, it would actually make sense that she, as a werewolf infects others.
Actually, a lot of planeswalkers could need a redesign or slight buffs. Normally, these ideas seem to be ignored, so I'm positively surprised that this particular one is answered.

If they consider this change, I'm sure the community can come up with a lot of good ideas like this one!

Agreed, both for the response, and the sentiment that other planeswalkers will need to have their abilities looked at in future releases. Chandra, Torch of Defiance comes to mind as one that will need her abilities looked at again once Kaladesh is no longer playable as her abilities will largely be even more difficult to play if possible at all once you are no longer able to generate your own energy consistently.

Brigby

@Laeuftbeidir

While I don't necessarily comment on every idea players have suggested, I do take note of them and relay the ones that have garnered a decent amount of player support. 

The reason I wanted to highlight this one in particular was because I can see how "Standard" format would negatively impact her performance in-game, whereas other Planeswalkers are still able to remain viable within it.  

wickedwitch74

Hmmm... It's a slippery slope.

We will be having this same conversation in a year when all of these energy based walkers see their arsenal's rotate out.

If rotation is the new world order, it should take effect for previous sets and planeswalkers alike.

It may be the unpopular view, but I think Arlinn should lose her viability when werewolves rotate out.

That said, I'm cool with adding wolves, since it's within the flavor of the Planeswalker. Humans would be too broad of a sub-type for me.

Laeuftbeidir

@Brigby
 That's actually a good reason. Thanks!

Sadly, I'm convinced it won't be happening : this would set up an example, and more demands will be coming.. The only possible solution I see would be an upgrade for crystal.

Ekkias

wickedwitch74 said:

Hmmm... It's a slippery slope.
We will be having this same conversation in a year when all of these energy based walkers see their arsenal's rotate out.

If rotation is the new world order, it should take effect for previous sets and planeswalkers alike.

It may be the unpopular view, but I think Arlinn should lose her viability when werewolves rotate out.

That said, I'm cool with adding wolves, since it's within the flavor of the Planeswalker. Humans is a little too broad of a subtype for me.

With the exception of Chandra 2, I think the other KLD Planeswalkers have an ability that generates energy.

Granted it creates frustrating speed bumps to using their abilities, but at least it will be possible. Right now in Standard, only one of Arlinn's abilities (out of six) can be used. And more importantly, she's lost all thematic flavor.

I don't think that will be the case with the KLD Planeswalkers (beside C2) even once that set rotates out.

wickedwitch74

C2 generates energy.

Some (Dovin, Ajani 2) will remain viable because of their color combination, which is why Arlinn will continue to see play.

Tezzeret will remain strong since there will always be supports.

But the rest? Meh... I won't be playing Chandra 2 or Nissa 2 because I can't energize the board effectively. They will be sub-optimal PWs because the environment doesn't play to their strength.

And... I'm ok with that. By then I'll be playing Chandra 4 or Tezz 3. The game evolves... let the cards rotate, and let the PWs that support them fade into antiquity.

ElfNeedsFood

wickedwitch74 said:

C2 generates energy.

Some (Dovin, Ajani 2) will remain viable because of their color combination, which is why Arlinn will continue to see play.

Tezzeret will remain strong since there will always be supports.

But the rest? Meh... I won't be playing Chandra 2 or Nissa 2 because I can't energize the board effectively. They will be sub-optimal PWs because the environment doesn't play to their strength.

And... I'm ok with that. By then I'll be playing Chandra 4 or Tezz 3. The game evolves... let the cards rotate, and let the PWs that support them fade into antiquity.

Dovin can also natively generate the energy for his abilities (1st generated, 2nd generates and uses, 3rd just uses).

 Tezz is self-contained in a similar way.

 Nissa 2's third power will similarly work with no added cards. +20/20 to all creatures for one turn?  Good enough. Even her first can generate some mana in a pinch. 

Laeuftbeidir

But without further use, the energy is pointless. There I see only dovin Baan being able to produce and use it.. Maybe ajani, but not that well.
Vehicles.. Hm.. Sahiri.. At least Thopters and constructs will remain.
Apart from the colors, and only regarding abilities I only see Tezzeret 2 and maybe Saheeli remaining important after the set rotates out(from kld).

ElfNeedsFood

Yeah mono colors (Nissa) don't even get much play when they are in cycle. The question is which are crippled beyond use when thier sets rotate out...  

Szamsziel

Saheeli fix can be really easy - vehicle -> constructs 

exosect

Personally, given the switch to standard, I'd like to see future PW's that are released be far less set specific.....arlin being the perfect example of one whose abilities were made so specific she didn't even see huge amounts of play when we could have werewolves....but sorin, released in the same set I think, has broad enough abilities to always be viable. The PW'S I have always seen used the most when playing, before and after the switch, were ones like Gideon, kiora, and koth, whose abilities work for a wide variety of strategies. Just my thoughts for the game going forward 

wereotter

Szamsziel said:

Saheeli fix can be really easy - vehicle -> constructs 

We haven't seen the last of vehicles. Wizards said there were chariots and other things of that style planned as vehicles for Amonkhet. They were cut in development, but the fact that they were considered means there's a good chance we may see them as regular card types in future sets. If so, that will keep Saheeli's third ability relevant.

From the article, linked here:

• Chariot and Funeral Barge—At one point, we had Vehicles in the set, so, of course, we made some cool top-down Egyptian Vehicles. We later realized we were making the set a bit too complex, so we were looking for things to cut, and as we only had a few Vehicles, we chose to cut those.

madwren

The question to ask is not "what changes should the devs make", but "why would the devs be motivated to change planeswalkers to make them less set-dependent".

wickedwitch74

madwren said:

The question to ask is not "what changes should the devs make", but "why would the devs be motivated to change planeswalkers to make them less set-dependent".

Exactly. Why should they change Arlinn? She's a werewolf PW that makes little sense to play when werewolves rotate out.

Play the new stuff, and enjoy playing Arlinn in Legacy tournaments or when werewolves appear again.

wereotter

madwren said:

The question to ask is not "what changes should the devs make", but "why would the devs be motivated to change planeswalkers to make them less set-dependent".

It's fair to note that when Arlinn was designed, a standard rotation cycle wasn't a thing, so there's her now, and in the future I can see Chandra, Torch of Defiance, and Ajani Unyielding needing adjustments to untie them from set mechanics.

I think when you look at the Gideon, Liliana, and Nissa from this current set, they're not tied to tightly to block mechanics. It's fair to assume that set tie in will be loosened going forward. 

exosect

madwren said:

The question to ask is not "what changes should the devs make", but "why would the devs be motivated to change planeswalkers to make them less set-dependent".

That's a good question,  my answer to that one is another question, going forward in the game, now having a rotation, each player will now be asking "why should I buy this pw and use the time and resources to lvl it, when this other pw I have will run the deck well, is already lvled, and won't be useless in the next rotation " my answer to that question would always be....well no, I shouldn't get this pw then