Fix for Arlinn Kord

2

Comments

  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
    wereotter said:
    madwren said:
    The question to ask is not "what changes should the devs make", but "why would the devs be motivated to change planeswalkers to make them less set-dependent".
    It's fair to note that when Arlinn was designed, a standard rotation cycle wasn't a thing, so there's her now, and in the future I can see Chandra, Torch of Defiance, and Ajani Unyielding needing adjustments to untie them from set mechanics.

    I think when you look at the Gideon, Liliana, and Nissa from this current set, they're not tied to tightly to block mechanics. It's fair to assume that set tie in will be loosened going forward. 
    Nissa is tied as tightly as a planeswalker could be to block mechanics. All of her abilities involve cycling. =p

    That being said, G3 and L3 are a bit looser, but that's because embalm and zombies are far more flexible mechanics than energize and werewolves.  It'd be hard to enforce a set dependency on embalm.

    Anyway, I'm on Ekkias' side, I just don't think the devs are motivated to make these changes.  One might remember how fervently I argued against the narrowing of Saheeli's ultimate, for example. 

    There's a rather large assumption here that the devs would be displeased that a planeswalker would decrease in usefulness in Standard as his or her set rotates out. However, I've seen no evidence that's actually the case.

    Based on the changes we've seen since the start of the year, it seems apparent that their primary motivation is getting people to spend money by virtue of limiting both currency and rewards while increasing the time on the hamster wheel needed to accrue both.  If your favorite red/green planeswalker isn't as good as it once was, then you'll be motivated to buy a new one when it's released with New! Set! Abilities!
  • Ekkias
    Ekkias Posts: 42 Just Dropped In
    The important difference between Arlinn and other planeswalkers with set specific mechanics is that their abilities are still usable, just weak.

    Currently I cannot activate Arlinn's 2nd or 3rd ability in Standard, no matter how I tweek my deck or how long the match goes.

    This isn't a complaint to make abilities useful, it's a request to make them usable. I think my suggestion achieves that, without adding and power creep to an already solid Planeswalker.
  • PersonMan
    PersonMan Posts: 28 Just Dropped In
    An easy fix Is to just add a few dozen or so Werewolves and Allies to the second half of the Amonket block when they release it in a few months.  Most can be retreds of previous cards - there is no danger in releasing a bunch of Commons and Uncommons that are similar to those in previous blocks.  And you'd only need 2ish Rare and Mythics of each tribe, which isn't a tall order. 
  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    madwren said:
    wereotter said:
    madwren said:
    The question to ask is not "what changes should the devs make", but "why would the devs be motivated to change planeswalkers to make them less set-dependent".
    It's fair to note that when Arlinn was designed, a standard rotation cycle wasn't a thing, so there's her now, and in the future I can see Chandra, Torch of Defiance, and Ajani Unyielding needing adjustments to untie them from set mechanics.

    I think when you look at the Gideon, Liliana, and Nissa from this current set, they're not tied to tightly to block mechanics. It's fair to assume that set tie in will be loosened going forward. 
    Nissa is tied as tightly as a planeswalker could be to block mechanics. All of her abilities involve cycling. =p

    That being said, G3 and L3 are a bit looser, but that's because embalm and zombies are far more flexible mechanics than energize and werewolves.  It'd be hard to enforce a set dependency on embalm.

    Anyway, I'm on Ekkias' side, I just don't think the devs are motivated to make these changes.  One might remember how fervently I argued against the narrowing of Saheeli's ultimate, for example. 

    There's a rather large assumption here that the devs would be displeased that a planeswalker would decrease in usefulness in Standard as his or her set rotates out. However, I've seen no evidence that's actually the case.

    Based on the changes we've seen since the start of the year, it seems apparent that their primary motivation is getting people to spend money by virtue of limiting both currency and rewards while increasing the time on the hamster wheel needed to accrue both.  If your favorite red/green planeswalker isn't as good as it once was, then you'll be motivated to buy a new one when it's released with New! Set! Abilities!
     Nissa is tied to cycling, but also gives cards cycling, and gives mana to cards without cycling. She will be slower if there aren't cards with cycling in standard, but her abilities will still be usable. The problem, as mentioned, is Arlinn's abilities are completely unusable because no werewolves can be put in the deck. 
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    PersonMan said:
    An easy fix Is to just add a few dozen or so Werewolves and Allies to the second half of the Amonket block when they release it in a few months.  Most can be retreds of previous cards - there is no danger in releasing a bunch of Commons and Uncommons that are similar to those in previous blocks.  And you'd only need 2ish Rare and Mythics of each tribe, which isn't a tall order. 
    Werewolves and allies are not part of amonkhet and don't fit the flavor of the set. This won't be happening ..They might have a come back later - sorin's story doesn't need to have ended yet,for example. Or maybe a new world will come, including werewolves!
  • ElfNeedsFood
    ElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    Ekkias said:

    Currently I cannot activate Arlinn's 2nd or 3rd ability in Standard, no matter how I tweek my deck or how long the match goes.


    Greatly weakened, but won't the third ability still transform her, giving fresh HP and the "make a werewolf" ability?
  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    ElfNeedsFood said:
    Ekkias said:

    Currently I cannot activate Arlinn's 2nd or 3rd ability in Standard, no matter how I tweek my deck or how long the match goes.


    Greatly weakened, but won't the third ability still transform her, giving fresh HP and the "make a werewolf" ability?
    No. You cannot activate her third ability at all if you have no werewolves in play. Also her HP doesn't refresh when she transforms. 
  • ElfNeedsFood
    ElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    wereotter said:
    ElfNeedsFood said:
    Ekkias said:

    Currently I cannot activate Arlinn's 2nd or 3rd ability in Standard, no matter how I tweek my deck or how long the match goes.


    Greatly weakened, but won't the third ability still transform her, giving fresh HP and the "make a werewolf" ability?
    No. You cannot activate her third ability at all if you have no werewolves in play. Also her HP doesn't refresh when she transforms. 
    Wow. That effect doesn't say "target". I never bought her and probably never will now. 
  • Infested
    Infested Posts: 98 Match Maker
    ElfNeedsFood said:
    wereotter said:
    ElfNeedsFood said:
    Ekkias said:

    Currently I cannot activate Arlinn's 2nd or 3rd ability in Standard, no matter how I tweek my deck or how long the match goes.


    Greatly weakened, but won't the third ability still transform her, giving fresh HP and the "make a werewolf" ability?
    No. You cannot activate her third ability at all if you have no werewolves in play. Also her HP doesn't refresh when she transforms. 
    Wow. That effect doesn't say "target". I never bought her and probably never will now. 
    They will just make and event that requires her in a node so that people will buy her. people will rage...they wont care as long as someone spends money to grab her.
  • tfg76
    tfg76 Posts: 258 Mover and Shaker
    @madwren Where have you seen this cycling-Nissa described? I can´t see any official announcement anywhere.
  • Szamsziel
    Szamsziel Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
    Go to planeswalker section. Mark show all. Relax and enjoy reading:)
  • Kyphonis
    Kyphonis Posts: 36 Just Dropped In
    That cycling Nissa feels a lot like Dovin baan. She will always have a use cause mana gain but is weakened a bit once out of native block. However...the first 2 abilities are pretty much all you need usually.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Match Maker
    What about Gideon, Ally of Zendikar?
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    Drycha said:
    What about Gideon, Ally of Zendikar?
    That's a white Planeswalker. He spawns creatures.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Match Maker
    Laeuftbeidir said:
    Drycha said:
    What about Gideon, Ally of Zendikar?
    That's a white Planeswalker. He spawns creatures.
    Yes I know that.
    My point is; he's a Planeswalker built around the non-standard Ally mechanic.
  • Damien
    Damien Posts: 24 Just Dropped In
    Gideon 2 isn't a total waste in standard if your lucky enough to get anointed procession. I have gotten the white knight token up to 64/64 in a couple battles. 
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    Drycha said:
    Laeuftbeidir said:
    Drycha said:
    What about Gideon, Ally of Zendikar?
    That's a white Planeswalker. He spawns creatures.
    Yes I know that.
    My point is; he's a Planeswalker built around the non-standard Ally mechanic.

    I always was disappointed that Arlinn's ability to create werewolf tokens wasn't on the day side. Creating creatures helps pws remain relevant.
  • gruntface
    gruntface Posts: 161 Tile Toppler
    It was nice to see Brigby comment but honestly they have no incentive to address pw abilities. In fact it's a disincentive if you have more functional pw as you are less likely to want to buy the new ones.

    By tying pw to sets more and more directly they force people to invest scarcer resources into buying/building the new pw without having to introduce power creep.

    I still use arlinn in standard pvp. The color combo is great and her first is viable. I miss my solo grb deck though. That was fun.
  • ElfNeedsFood
    ElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    Kyphonis said:
    That cycling Nissa feels a lot like Dovin baan. She will always have a use cause mana gain but is weakened a bit once out of native block. However...the first 2 abilities are pretty much all you need usually.
    Dovin is the key to my cycling deck right now. It's 9 AKH cards plus Sphinx's Tutilidge. Yes, I picked Dovin for color combo, but I'm often able to trigger both the second and third powers. The second can fuel the third with no KLD cards in the deck. Granted, a turn or two after the third trigger, it's usually game over for the AI. 
  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
    Here's my proposal.  

    Change her level threes so that all creatures get +n/+n and werewolves get +n/+n again.  Maybe skip a level for non werewolves?  That way level 1 unflipped is good all around, 1 flipped is good for werewolves.  Level 2 is good for werewolves, 2 flipped is good all around and 3 is good all around but better for werewolves.

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