Please comment on the decision to backload pve cp progression rewards.

Vhailorx
Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
edited May 2017 in MPQ General Discussion
This decision was slipped into a much larger announcement about pve rewards.  It undoes one of of the more popular reward changes implemented with clearance levels in late 2016, and has basically been made without any comment from demi or d3.
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Comments

  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    Does this surprise you?  It's classic Demiurge, give with one hand take with the other
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor

    The annoying part is how simple it would have been to just put an 8CP reward 20% beyond what the old max prog was and call it a day...  


    They had to go out of their way to do more work to make sure they stick it to people that could only do 4 clears.  Literally extra work and the opportunity cost of fixing something to make sure people doing 4 clears get less...  Just puzzling decision making that ends up ruining what could have been a refreshingly positive announcement...


    As usual, if the motivator is to get people to pay more money much confusion can be avoided if they just come out and say it...  I *think* everyone is aware that generating money is a legitimate goal here...

  • Wonko33
    Wonko33 Posts: 985 Critical Contributor
    yeah , I rarely have time to get full progression unless I am going for it to win a new 4* on the release PvE.

    It sucks but for me but I guess it is good for a lot of people , "win some,  lose some" should be the company motto
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    fmftint said:
    Does this surprise you?  It's classic Demiurge, give with one hand take with the other
    Maybe this is another attempt to fix dilution. Take away complaints by raising requirements to achieve CP, thus reducing the amount of people & number of pulls that will be pulling these tokens. Can't complain about low odds if you're never drawing from the packs?
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Beer40 said:
    fmftint said:
    Does this surprise you?  It's classic Demiurge, give with one hand take with the other
    Maybe this is another attempt to fix dilution. Take away complaints by raising requirements to achieve CP, thus reducing the amount of people & number of pulls that will be pulling these tokens. Can't complain about low odds if you're never drawing from the packs?
    I'd buy that if they didn't also have vaulting.  The combination just makes so it's near impossible to max out 4*s before they rotate out unless you hit the higher max progress in PvE and/or the impossible for casuals PvP max progress.
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    broll said:
    Beer40 said:
    fmftint said:
    Does this surprise you?  It's classic Demiurge, give with one hand take with the other
    Maybe this is another attempt to fix dilution. Take away complaints by raising requirements to achieve CP, thus reducing the amount of people & number of pulls that will be pulling these tokens. Can't complain about low odds if you're never drawing from the packs?
    I'd buy that if they didn't also have vaulting.  The combination just makes so it's near impossible to max out 4*s before they rotate out unless you hit the higher max progress in PvE and/or the impossible for casuals PvP max progress.

    Gotta give it to you, it looks a lot more sinister when viewed in conjunction with vaulting...
  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
    MissChinch said:
    broll said:
    Beer40 said:
    fmftint said:
    Does this surprise you?  It's classic Demiurge, give with one hand take with the other
    Maybe this is another attempt to fix dilution. Take away complaints by raising requirements to achieve CP, thus reducing the amount of people & number of pulls that will be pulling these tokens. Can't complain about low odds if you're never drawing from the packs?
    I'd buy that if they didn't also have vaulting.  The combination just makes so it's near impossible to max out 4*s before they rotate out unless you hit the higher max progress in PvE and/or the impossible for casuals PvP max progress.

    Gotta give it to you, it looks a lot more sinister when viewed in conjunction with vaulting...
    Gotta get those engagement metrics up, y'all
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    broll said:
    Beer40 said:
    fmftint said:
    Does this surprise you?  It's classic Demiurge, give with one hand take with the other
    Maybe this is another attempt to fix dilution. Take away complaints by raising requirements to achieve CP, thus reducing the amount of people & number of pulls that will be pulling these tokens. Can't complain about low odds if you're never drawing from the packs?
    I'd buy that if they didn't also have vaulting.  The combination just makes so it's near impossible to max out 4*s before they rotate out unless you hit the higher max progress in PvE and/or the impossible for casuals PvP max progress.
    Lots of people don't think Vaulting works (for various reasons). One of the reasons given is that newer characters are covered so quickly that people don't have the ISO for them or they keep pulling 5+ of a color and the covers go to waste. Less CP = less pulls = less covers going to waste. 

    You think they care if less people champ the new 4*s as a result? Nope. New problem, new topic to keep people talking.

    Not saying I'm right, but its a thought.


  • Arix90
    Arix90 Posts: 244 Tile Toppler
    edited May 2017
    They need to keep the old cp rewards and just put the newly added cp on the 5 clears Now i am likely to skip pve entirely if i am not interested in 4* cover rather than playing for 10 cp
  • Ducky
    Ducky Posts: 2,255 Community Moderator
    It's a carrot to keep players playing and engaged in the game.
  • mohio
    mohio Posts: 1,690 Chairperson of the Boards
    udonomefoo said:
    There's a line between "constantly engaged" and "burned out" this game burns enough already.  

    I don't understand the need for constant engagement in this game anyway.  If the game's revenue was ad-based then yes, you want people playing as much as possible.  As it is, I don't understand how it matters.  Yes, you want people to play, but why do you need them to play 2-3+ hours every day?
    I don't disagree with you, but I think what they're doing is trying to incentivize people to joining early as opposed to bracket shopping or waiting to snipe a late bracket. Maybe they considered other alternatives, or didn't even try to think of other ways to do this, but there's little question that turning up the max progression and giving higher rewards will get people to join events earlier than they may have under the old system. It is a side-effect that people now have to clear nodes one extra time, but they (probably correctly) assume that most people that were hitting 4 times before are "hard-core" enough to hit that 5th time too to ensure the best rewards. 

    I suggested once upon a time that they should do this by giving out tokens for each sub, similar to the Strange Sights event after beating Kaecilius (that was before this event existed). If you collect the token for each sub, that can unlock a special store with just 1 reward and they can make it whatever they want, CP, LT, 4* cover, etc.). That way, they ensure that only people that started at the beginning and played each sub to its fullest (whatever that means...points progression or a node reward somewhere?) can receive this ultimate progression reward. 

    Back to the OP - this doesn't personally effect me, as I tend to hit most nodes 6 times for the xp, and when I don't I can make it up easily in later subs. I am surprised by the change though. I expected them to insert the extra 8 cp (or whatever the case may be for other CL), into an earlier progression value, or maybe even tack it on at the end. I didn't expect such a huge sum to be all the way at the end.
  • zodiac339
    zodiac339 Posts: 1,948 Chairperson of the Boards
    The backloading of CP would have been more acceptable if the highest amount had been left at 15 at the end and merged one of the chunks of ISO with one or two other spots to make an opening for a 10 CP reward within the "4clears" zone. Casual players would still be annoyed at losing out on 7 CP, but would probably be more understanding, as the final reward should be the largest.
    Then again, the largest reward in missions is at 4 clears. No! I don't mean that the 4 clear reward should be moved to 5 clears! I just mean, spread out the progress bar a little more please.
    As a whole, I can appreciate players who do more than the minimum see some more rewards. I have a pretty heavy need for the ISO (naturally), so it's certainly welcome. I'll complete my Champions within my lifetime. I think.
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor

    Just sticking 8CP 20% further out from the old max would have gotten anyone interested in doing 5 clears for more rewards to do it...  


    They wanted to create more of a CP shortage for those that are OK with 4 clears but not 5 clears, I'm guessing the results they're interested in will show up in sales metrics not forum rants.

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,805 Chairperson of the Boards
    I max clear, so I'm clearly biased, but I would guess that they make most of their money from the players who max clear. For those players, this is more CPs. For those players, this is a positive.
  • mohio
    mohio Posts: 1,690 Chairperson of the Boards
    I wanted to add another comment - part of this change (I think) has to do with equalizing rewards between PvP and PvE. You can tell from how much they added to the week-long events that they want things to be roughly static as far as what is being rewarded. If you look at PvP you have 25 cp per event with 1 3* and 1 4* in progression (at cl7 and 8 at least) as the maximum possible rewards. There are 3 events per week, which comes out to 75 cp , 3 3* and 3 4* per week. The extra 8 cp per event for 3/4 day events makes there be 66 cp per week, which isn't quite to 75, but it's quite a bit closer than 50. In fact - add in the 2 per day in the node rewards and now you've got 80 which is actually more. As I mentioned before I was surprised it was backloaded, but it makes sense to a certain extent and I don't really mind it so much (no slaps in the face for me!)

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