Questions for Devs: Future for PvP

cyineedsn

Megdar said:

acescracked said:

There would be zero challenge. Gotta have some risk to be fun.

Quite a number of players hit 900, 1200, and much higher 3k, 4k points. That's with risk of getting hit. Matches take 2 to 6 mins. If players were insulated while playing, my gosh scores would be insane and those that could play 48 hrs straight would always kill it.

Nitefox, the problem is you want to be top dog with not a lot of time invested or money. Pay your dues with either of those. Be patient and you'll see the PvP game mode benefits.

This is already like that, people that climb to 3 or 4k points do it without risk. Except that they gamble the game. They are a minority that exploit a stupid pvp system on the back of the rest of the PVP player mass.

They are in outside the game chat room and the coordinate shield hop. They queue people when these people tell in the chat they are unshielded, and then they say when they unshield so other don't hit them. Normally, you can finish one fight before being hit by random dude, then they shield back.

They do 1 fight, shield, 1 fight, shield. Yes they pay money to the compagny, but they take no risk at all.

//Removed Insult From Quote -Brigby

It's one thing to speculate, but please don't try to spread it as fact. People who score 3-4k points absolutely still play with risk, and can and do take multiple hits and have negative hops at times. It just happens far less often to them due to numerous reasons, among them, play experience, and yes, general roster strength. And no, they definitely do not do 1 fight shield hops to 3-4k points either.

Pants1000

Lots of bad ideas in this thread!

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the current system.  I don't like how effective outside communication and coordination is.  It should be every man for himself, not people climbing off each other while shielded.  But I get that some people like the system and selling shields is a significant revenue source so they won't remove that.

That said I still play most events to 575 and rarely shield.  A couple seasons I did go for 900+ and hit the 10k season progression, but I have more fun playing PVE.

I would like to see some more variety in the events.  Have some 4* essentials instead of almost all season events with a 3*.  I like the Deadpool one where you can use either the 3* or 4*.

bbigler

For some reason, the overall rewards of PVP are not even near the rewards of PVE, and I'm not talking about progression or placement rewards.  Story events have good rewards for each node and then you get bonus rewards on top of that.  It's as simple as this: I play PVE for an hour and get around 10K ISO, plus tokens, plus HP, plus CP, plus XP.  I play PVP for an hour climbing and only get about 25% of that.  It's so unbalanced that 75% of my rewards come from PVE events.  This same reward imbalance exists between DDQ and LRs. 

So, if they want to fix PVP, they should first look at the rewards. 

Fightmastermpq

bbigler said:

For some reason, the overall rewards of PVP are not even near the rewards of PVE, and I'm not talking about progression or placement rewards.  Story events have good rewards for each node and then you get bonus rewards on top of that.  It's as simple as this: I play PVE for an hour and get around 10K ISO, plus tokens, plus HP, plus CP, plus XP.  I play PVP for an hour climbing and only get about 25% of that.  It's so unbalanced that 75% of my rewards come from PVE events.  This same reward imbalance exists between DDQ and LRs. 

So, if they want to fix PVP, they should first look at the rewards. 

This x1000.  I really think this is a big part of why SCLs are kind of broken in that someone with a pretty weak roster can earn tons of rewards and xp playing PvE yet still be completely unequipped for success in PvP at the same SCL.

Orion

Fightmastermpq said:

bbigler said:

For some reason, the overall rewards of PVP are not even near the rewards of PVE, and I'm not talking about progression or placement rewards.  Story events have good rewards for each node and then you get bonus rewards on top of that.  It's as simple as this: I play PVE for an hour and get around 10K ISO, plus tokens, plus HP, plus CP, plus XP.  I play PVP for an hour climbing and only get about 25% of that.  It's so unbalanced that 75% of my rewards come from PVE events.  This same reward imbalance exists between DDQ and LRs. 

So, if they want to fix PVP, they should first look at the rewards. 

This x1000.  I really think this is a big part of why SCLs are kind of broken in that someone with a pretty weak roster can earn tons of rewards and xp playing PvE yet still be completely unequipped for success in PvP at the same SCL.

The season rewards are trash too.  After the 10-pack at 4k, you have to go all the way to 10k to earn something useful?  You can do better than that to reward a month's worth of high-end PvP work.

bbigler

Fightmastermpq said:

bbigler said:

For some reason, the overall rewards of PVP are not even near the rewards of PVE, and I'm not talking about progression or placement rewards.  Story events have good rewards for each node and then you get bonus rewards on top of that.  It's as simple as this: I play PVE for an hour and get around 10K ISO, plus tokens, plus HP, plus CP, plus XP.  I play PVP for an hour climbing and only get about 25% of that.  It's so unbalanced that 75% of my rewards come from PVE events.  This same reward imbalance exists between DDQ and LRs. 

So, if they want to fix PVP, they should first look at the rewards. 

This x1000.  I really think this is a big part of why SCLs are kind of broken in that someone with a pretty weak roster can earn tons of rewards and xp playing PvE yet still be completely unequipped for success in PvP at the same SCL.

In addition to this argument, I can place top 5 in a SCL8 PVE event, but only top 25 in a SCL7 PVP event.  I can far exceed the points for max progression rewards in PVE but only barely get 900 points in PVP.  Why is PVP so stingy with rewards!

bbigler

Orion said:

Fightmastermpq said:

bbigler said:

For some reason, the overall rewards of PVP are not even near the rewards of PVE, and I'm not talking about progression or placement rewards.  Story events have good rewards for each node and then you get bonus rewards on top of that.  It's as simple as this: I play PVE for an hour and get around 10K ISO, plus tokens, plus HP, plus CP, plus XP.  I play PVP for an hour climbing and only get about 25% of that.  It's so unbalanced that 75% of my rewards come from PVE events.  This same reward imbalance exists between DDQ and LRs. 

So, if they want to fix PVP, they should first look at the rewards. 

This x1000.  I really think this is a big part of why SCLs are kind of broken in that someone with a pretty weak roster can earn tons of rewards and xp playing PvE yet still be completely unequipped for success in PvP at the same SCL.

The season rewards are trash too.  After the 10-pack at 4k, you have to go all the way to 10k to earn something useful?  You can do better than that to reward a month's worth of high-end PvP work.

Yes, even more examples!  Season rewards are insulting compared to the work it takes to get them.  Even Shield Simulator is stingy.  Lots of people have trouble getting to 2000 points and all you get is a 4* cover.  Well, I get those almost everyday.  I don't know how some people survive playing only PVP events.

elvy75

So this is going to be little reminder of MPQ PVP history:

At the beginning, there were NO shields, (no slices either) and everyone played only last few hrs for as long as their 3 healthpacks could take them. Granted leveling up your character gave you max health but that was soon removed, and total healthpacks increased to 5. We did have some true healing back then, mainly spidey and OBW, but it was a terrible grindfest of who is going to place in that last hr of playing. And the moment you are the person with the most points EVERYONE was on you....

...which brought introduction of shields. once you were shielded you could still be queued by entire playerbase, which brought to insane points inflation, so devs decided to remove shielded players from the queues, ....

....which brought us current phase of shield hopping, that had its own adjustments over time, but basic system is still in place.

In conclusion: you can't expect that devs will ever allow for massive points inflation, as they proved times and times again that whenever points go over some threshold they will change something to get it back to reasonable levels, whichever they are for them. Most of the ideas given here are in favor of points inflation, so there is no chance that devs will ever accept them

Fightmastermpq

Orion said:

Fightmastermpq said:

bbigler said:

For some reason, the overall rewards of PVP are not even near the rewards of PVE, and I'm not talking about progression or placement rewards.  Story events have good rewards for each node and then you get bonus rewards on top of that.  It's as simple as this: I play PVE for an hour and get around 10K ISO, plus tokens, plus HP, plus CP, plus XP.  I play PVP for an hour climbing and only get about 25% of that.  It's so unbalanced that 75% of my rewards come from PVE events.  This same reward imbalance exists between DDQ and LRs. 

So, if they want to fix PVP, they should first look at the rewards. 

This x1000.  I really think this is a big part of why SCLs are kind of broken in that someone with a pretty weak roster can earn tons of rewards and xp playing PvE yet still be completely unequipped for success in PvP at the same SCL.

The season rewards are trash too.  After the 10-pack at 4k, you have to go all the way to 10k to earn something useful?  You can do better than that to reward a month's worth of high-end PvP work.

I agree, but at the same time you've already been rewarded for your performance in those previous events.  The season rewards are for consistency, not total effort, so I do kind of get why they are on the low side.

nitefox1337

elvy75 said:

So this is going to be little reminder of MPQ PVP history:

At the beginning, there were NO shields, (no slices either) and everyone played only last few hrs for as long as their 3 healthpacks could take them. Granted leveling up your character gave you max health but that was soon removed, and total healthpacks increased to 5. We did have some true healing back then, mainly spidey and OBW, but it was a terrible grindfest of who is going to place in that last hr of playing. And the moment you are the person with the most points EVERYONE was on you....

...which brought introduction of shields. once you were shielded you could still be queued by entire playerbase, which brought to insane points inflation, so devs decided to remove shielded players from the queues, ....

....which brought us current phase of shield hopping, that had its own adjustments over time, but basic system is still in place.

In conclusion: you can't expect that devs will ever allow for massive points inflation, as they proved times and times again that whenever points go over some threshold they will change something to get it back to reasonable levels, whichever they are for them. Most of the ideas given here are in favor of points inflation, so there is no chance that devs will ever accept them

- First problem could have been fixed easily by implementing fixed scores and separating  "pvp" with mandatory ranking.

Their "solution" is not a fix. It's a way to earn money. The faucet is leaking, so instead of replacing it with a better one they sell you a 8 hour bandaid.

- Points Inflation? lol. You're talking like ranking points are listed in Wall Street and they can't temper it! xD

It's just points. They can VERY easily replace their scoring system in 10 minutes, (yes in 10 minute), with a way better algorithm that will not only remove inflation but also remove the need for shields, etc...

Conclusion: You got it all wrong. They will favor suggestions that will bring more money period. Luckily for everyone, the suggestions I posted in my posts above also take care of that. Better gameplay, more players, more competition, more money.

Justice Jacks

nitefox1337 said:

Conclusion: You got it all wrong. They will favor suggestions that will bring more money period. Luckily for everyone, the suggestions I posted in my posts above also take care of that. Better gameplay, more players, more competition, more money.

So in spite of dozens of high-paying players telling you they dispise your idea(s) and wouldn't want to operate in the participation-ribbon environment you are recommending, you still want to stick to arguing your solution would lead to "better gameplay" and "more money?"

You're hopeless, it appears, with a skull too dense to crack through.  It's not worth trying at this point.  But perhaps others might enjoy reading more examples of your "easy" fixes and algorithmic knowledge.  As you were.   

Milk Jugz

@nitefox1337

When I had a low-level ROSTER as you do now I avoided pvp for many of the reasons you stated. You need to accept the fact that your ROSTER is not up to the challenge of getting past a certain point threshold and just wait. After about a year to a year and a half I built my ROSTER to the point that I can always get to 900. I'm happy there for now, it's what my ROSTER strength will allow. As soon as I hit 925-1000 I get beat back down. Eventually my ROSTER will allow me to get to 1.2k and beyond. Just need to keep building!! 

nitefox1337

Milk Jugz said:

@nitefox1337

When I had a low-level ROSTER as you do now I avoided pvp for many of the reasons you stated. You need to accept the fact that your ROSTER is not up to the challenge of getting past a certain point threshold and just wait. After about a year to a year and a half I built my ROSTER to the point that I can always get to 900. I'm happy there for now, it's what my ROSTER strength will allow. As soon as I hit 925-1000 I get beat back down. Eventually my ROSTER will allow me to get to 1.2k and beyond. Just need to keep building!! 

Am I the only one seeing that players avoiding a section of the game for more than a year is bad for the game and the revenue of the game?

Don't get me wrong, thank you for sharing your experience. But others also insinuated that I am complaining cause my Roster is not as strong as someone's Roster who invested years in the game. Which is silly.

@Justice Jacks

No one has to like my ideas. But I can see that they disturb players who invested much while they are supported by new players, and maybe players who already left the game.

Maybe instead of listening to dozens of veterans, you should take into consideration the voice of thousands who do not invest in the game: It's very simple. It doesn't matter if you're level 10 or 1000 or have 100 5 stars or just one. If PvP is not fun at level 1, it will still not be fun at level 1000. If you think it's fun like it is, good for you. But Players stay out of PvP? Well...

...that's what they need to fix. I don't care if my Roster will be top of the world one day and will get an Olympic medal if I keep persisting for years xD. I don't like PvP now, and PvE is starting to get boring, I wonder if I will even be playing this game in a week.


FYI: This will be my last post in this thread cause some posters are starting to take it personal.

gl hf!

Milk Jugz

nitefox1337 said:

Milk Jugz said:

@nitefox1337

When I had a low-level ROSTER as you do now I avoided pvp for many of the reasons you stated. You need to accept the fact that your ROSTER is not up to the challenge of getting past a certain point threshold and just wait. After about a year to a year and a half I built my ROSTER to the point that I can always get to 900. I'm happy there for now, it's what my ROSTER strength will allow. As soon as I hit 925-1000 I get beat back down. Eventually my ROSTER will allow me to get to 1.2k and beyond. Just need to keep building!! 

Am I the only one seeing that players avoiding a section of the game for more than a year is bad for the game and the revenue of the game?

Don't get me wrong, thank you for sharing your experience. But others also insinuated that I am complaining cause my Roster is not as strong as someone's Roster who invested years in the game. Which is silly.

@Justice Jacks

No one has to like my ideas. But I can see that they disturb players who invested much while they are supported by new players, and maybe players who already left the game.

Maybe instead of listening to dozens of veterans, you should take into consideration the voice of thousands who do not invest in the game: It's very simple. It doesn't matter if you're level 10 or 1000 or have 100 5 stars or just one. If PvP is not fun at level 1, it will still not be fun at level 1000. If you think it's fun like it is, good for you. But Players stay out of PvP? Well...

...that's what they need to fix. I don't care if my Roster will be top of the world one day and will get an Olympic medal if I keep persisting for years xD. I don't like PvP now, and PvE is starting to get boring, I wonder if I will even be playing this game in a week.


FYI: This will be my last post in this thread cause some posters are starting to take it personal.

gl hf!

@nitefox1337

I'm not sure if others are taking your posts personally or not, but I am not and I hope you are not taking what I'm saying personally.

The fundamental flaw in your thinking is that you think you should be able to compete with people who have been playing this game since it's inception 3 years or so ago. You can't unless you whale it and spend lots of $$$$$$. All I'm trying to tell you is to keep building your roster through pve for awhile and the pvp experience WILL get better, please trust me on that. I'm telling you this from experience and so are the other veteran players here. We all went through what you are going through after all!!!!

This game is meant to be played over the long haul to build a competitive roster, if that's not what you are looking for in a game I suggest candy crush or one of it's umpteen spin offs......


EDIT: Forgot to ping nitefox....

Skrofa

Even if lower rosters only fight with same level rosters the crux of the matter is that the competition for placement is still with the big guns.
Almost every pvp bracket has a t10 rank of multiple 5* champs.

This is what makes it disheartening for most players who do want to feel competitive in pvp.

So, while I like playing competitively in pve (even though there shouldn't be competition there) I don't do so in pvp. I play for an hour or so, climb as high as I can and then shield. T25? Cool. T50? Oh well, thems the cakes.

Don't know how to "fix" pvp or even if it needs fixing. It's just something that for me at least, is there. If I feel like it, I'll go for it. If not, meh