Update Thoughts and Trial of Zeal

Ohboy

Corn Noodles said:

Ohboy said:

Let's look back and see what happened in the last 2 events. 

They underestimated the amount of hp required.

Clearly this is an overreaction to the other side. 

Is it? It could be that the health is the same and they've lost a large number of players. Or it could be that with the difficulty of 3.x, there isn't much damage being done to the boss. Probably a combination of both of those.

If we compare directly with ratc, we see that the same reaction was had for node 3. "Tezz is impossible, I give up" was a thing. People were complaining about 3.1 and 3.2 too. 

The more consistent answer is that they screwed up the boss hp, as they have consistently done every pve event. 

Steeme

Ok I've almost reached full progression in this event.

My major issue right now is that for all 3.x nodes my matches take up to 20 minutes each.

Granted, I have that "cliffhanger" type feeling while working my way into deadlocking the AI, but after that it is just time consuming.

If I were to acquire Drake Haven, of course this entire block will be trivialized, so it's quite obvious which key cards the entire event was balanced against.

madwren

Nah, it isn't Drake Haven by itself. It's a combination of cards and the cycling ability. Drake Haven is awesomely powerful, but eventually you run out of mana to cycle with unless you have Monitor or New Perspectives.

Laeuftbeidir

.. Or Kiora.

gillkonam

Maybe allow people in the third node to play previous contests in the third node instead of being stuck at the god?
And I'm meta because maybe I don't want to start a flame war with particular people because hey I'm actually consistent and want constructive discussions.

morgue427

have to admit that would be a good idea, lot like the pve challenges once you unlock it it stays open. Perhaps make them little different values,like 30 for 1st 40 for second and 50 for last boss, then people can play at least if the get stuck.

wereotter

gillkonam said:

Maybe allow people in the third node to play previous contests in the third node instead of being stuck at the god?
And I'm meta because maybe I don't want to start a flame war with particular people because hey I'm actually consistent and want constructive discussions.

People were asking for this with Tezzeret before, but it was never implemented. So I wouldn't expect that to be an option any time soon  

morgue427 said:

have to admit that would be a good idea, lot like the pve challenges once you unlock it it stays open. Perhaps make them little different values,like 30 for 1st 40 for second and 50 for last boss, then people can play at least if the get stuck.

The number of ribbons for the third fight on the third node is already more than the first.

Ohboy

madwren said:

Nah, it isn't Drake Haven by itself. It's a combination of cards and the cycling ability. Drake Haven is awesomely powerful, but eventually you run out of mana to cycle with unless you have Monitor or New Perspectives.

I have neither of those cards and drake Haven is still crazy Op. 

But you're right, the problem isn't so much drake Haven, but overly cheap/efficient cycling cards. 

madwren

Ohboy said:

madwren said:

Nah, it isn't Drake Haven by itself. It's a combination of cards and the cycling ability. Drake Haven is awesomely powerful, but eventually you run out of mana to cycle with unless you have Monitor or New Perspectives.

I have neither of those cards and drake Haven is still crazy Op. 

But you're right, the problem isn't so much drake Haven, but overly cheap/efficient cycling cards. 

Yes, I definitely agree that Drake Haven is ridiculous. Summoning 4/4 flyers for 1 mana multiple times a turn just shouldn't happen. It just doesn't trivialize the block all on its own.

ElfNeedsFood

Steeme said:

Ok I've almost reached full progression in this event.

My major issue right now is that for all 3.x nodes my matches take up to 20 minutes each.

Granted, I have that "cliffhanger" type feeling while working my way into deadlocking the AI, but after that it is just time consuming.

If I were to acquire Drake Haven, of course this entire block will be trivialized, so it's quite obvious which key cards the entire event was balanced against.

I made it work with New Perspectives (Rare) and Shadowstorm Vizier (Uncommon), so while the Drake Haven would be nicer, there are other cycle cards that work.  Right now I'd actually prefer Renewed Faith than Drake Haven as an enhancement to the deck (but I'd take both!)

UweTellkampf

With Kiora I could already make infinite loops after less than a week of the release and beat everything that comes in my way in the least fun manner - just by basically swiping the cards in the trash can. The issue is not how to do this and if one should do it, the issue is that we are given the means to do it by design. And this comes just after nerfing a card that was creating infinite loops (Baral) because it was creating infinite loops. The majority of the community had problems with Baral, even many that were using him. So why on earth would you give us means to create infinite loops again, when it is obvious that hardly anyone is enjoying it? Even many of us who are using it find it boring end tedious.

I don't want to be hypocritical: I honestly was hyped to discover the cycling's OP ability for my advantage and will continue using it in crucial battles until it is taken away from me (which probably is just a question of time after they maybe change the background color again). But i persistently keep wondering who the hell makes these weird decisions for the game mechanics, and why are they not discussed with the player base beforehand? For Baral, of course, they knew that people will spend money for the broken card, so they offered it and people spent money. But here, what is there to be gained except some frustration from our side? Do they honestly believe people will throw out money for boosters and the tiny chance to get the key cards? I just don't get it. 

Steeme

ElfNeedsFood said:

Steeme said:

Ok I've almost reached full progression in this event.

My major issue right now is that for all 3.x nodes my matches take up to 20 minutes each.

Granted, I have that "cliffhanger" type feeling while working my way into deadlocking the AI, but after that it is just time consuming.

If I were to acquire Drake Haven, of course this entire block will be trivialized, so it's quite obvious which key cards the entire event was balanced against.

I made it work with New Perspectives (Rare) and Shadowstorm Vizier (Uncommon), so while the Drake Haven would be nicer, there are other cycle cards that work.  Right now I'd actually prefer Renewed Faith than Drake Haven as an enhancement to the deck (but I'd take both!)

Perhaps I should be more specific:

I have New Perspectives, Cast Out, a bunch of cycle cards, Kefnet, and Baral.  Matches in 3.x take up to 20 minutes.

If I were to acquire Drake Haven - the entire block is literally trivialized.

morgue427

it is an long cycle but only because of those cards 3 total to make it work i believe, which can be gotten on some games the round after you die, 2 even 3 cards combo/cycles can be rotten to get consistently. Most importantly though the ai can't won't cycle so only live players can so not sure if they will nerf it too much.

Hefty

morgue427 said:

it is an long cycle but only because of those cards 3 total to make it work i believe, which can be gotten on some games the round after you die, 2 even 3 cards combo/cycles can be rotten to get consistently. Most importantly though the ai can't won't cycle so only live players can so not sure if they will nerf it too much.

It would be hard, if it is not a cycling deck.
But bare in mind we only have 40 cards; 37 after starting. New Perspective is a "draw 3" on it´s own and even if it misses you get near infinite (10+) Cyclings out of it. One of Your cyclers is a Draw 2 for 4 mana (1 if you have NP).
It is really a none issue to get the combo rolling.

Tilwin90

I can beat any deck with the combination of New Perspectives + Archive + Faith of the Devoted + any cycling cards with cycling cost < 3. Is it super slow and painful? Tinnykitty yes!

babar3355

Only the top 2 coalitions are averaging progression... that's a bit nuts. 

And when you get progression you get... a measly pack?  Gee thanks!

The fights I founds pretty fun, except for 2.1's objectives which are fun 1-2 times and will be like torture for the next 2 months.  I got crushed by 3.3 three times in a row which was a strangely refreshing experience (in retrospect)

Anyway, Im in the "I like the event camp"... I have no idea what they will do next week though.  If they lower the life total dramatically perhaps no one will get progression?

madwren

As Babar points out, it's ridiculous that only the top two coalitions in the game (us and yh1j) had an average score that was able to meet progression. What the hell was so wrong with the 450-point level? What amazing rewards were being given out that made the devs say, "You know, this basic booster is really too much, we should set progression to 850?"  Any chance you can interrogate them on our behalf, @brigby?

ElfNeedsFood

madwren said:

As Babar points out, it's ridiculous that only the top two coalitions in the game (us and yh1j) had an average score that was able to meet progression. What the hell was so wrong with the 450-point level? What amazing rewards were being given out that made the devs say, "You know, this basic booster is really too much, we should set progression to 850?"  Any chance you can interrogate them on our behalf, @brigby?

I think part of the issue is the Revolt Against the Update, so it's not just the difficulty of the challenges and the increased point scale.  In my (mostly casual, not a top coalition), I was the only 850, but the others that usually play along simply chose not to play...  Usually 4-5 make it pretty far and play actively, this time around, there was only one other person even trying...  The comments in my group are more about being disgruntled over the Standard format, although the difficultly of node 3.1 did factor into the conversation (if they showed up at all)...

babar3355

That's true Elf, but even coalitions that are typically in the top 10 didn't average progression.  That's pretty clearly a sign that the event was mis-structured.

Stormcrow

I would love to see statistics as to what percentage of the playerbase was able to beat 3.1 without spending crystals to open some extra Amonkhet packs. (And possibly what percentage of those people did it without Hixus.) That was not a reasonably F2P-doable node.

I'd also love to hear any kind of explanation from d3 about what their thinking was with the design of this event, from boss hp to progression tiers to difficulty, but they seem to be a lot more reticent about explaining their thinking these days.