Update Thoughts and Trial of Zeal

Tigerpawz

I'm just going to start with this in that apparently I do not read very well. I think I read where Trial of Zeal was "Standard" yet it didn't hit me until I tried to play in the event. So I had a few thoughts total.

I love Standard for PvP which is where the game feels very fresh and there is incentive to continue to collect cards. I rather enjoy not running into Olivia and Decimator of the Provinces etc etc...

I also love, absolutely love the functionality changes. Tweaking decks is so much easier it makes me hate it when I used to have to go out of whatever I was doing, into the planeswalkers tab, edit my walker etc etc for every event. Doing it from the current event you are playing is awesome and the ability to build a shell to tweak every match is also quite awesome.

So that's where my praise for the game just about ends.

Trial of Zeal is borderline unplayable and ruins the game in several different ways.

First of all you want us to buy the new cards. I totally get that and have done just that. However you want us buy mana crystals and I have not done that, nor will I probably ever unless the economy of the game changes.

Seriously guys with the last major update you devalued our currency by a significant amount and added a brand new one that is eating up the opportunities to get the crystals. On top of that the drop rates are still garbage. I should not be getting 2x /anything/ in the same exact pack...ever.
So having pointed that out again the only real solution is to spend I dunno $100 for enough crystals in order to get enough variety to play some of the events.

How do you expect anyone to have fun with your game when the AI has every single tool in a set and you are struggling to get by? The only way to get more resources is to get past this particular challenge which is impossible partly due to frustrating currency manipulation and scarcity of resources being the drop rates of the cards themselves?

My suggestion to you is for someone in development to play the village newb. Have someone reset their account to 0 anything every 3 months and try to build it up. Let them join a coalition etc...experience the game.

For experienced people personally I feel like this is just one big nightmare. I've been playing since the game launched. The fact we can not use our entire collection against the most difficult challenges the AI has in store for us is an insult. I enjoy those challenges as a way for you to show me the power of the new cards. That's my incentive to keep grinding to get the new cards. But let me ask this. Why the heck do I want those cards, or would I spend lets say $200 to get them just for you to make them obsolete in a year? All the work and crystals put into BFZ and SOI just meaningless, and that was frustrating as heck because of the drop rate still!

 Which side note I feel like half of my coalition has quit now, 11 of them aren't registered for Trial of Zeal and we are 19th on the leader board.

Also Training Grounds is no longer a suitable place to test decks. I was testing G/W Ajani "Standard" for the Trial and getting wrecked by a Garruk with Ulvenwald Hydra and Season's Past.

So that's really the end of my ranting more or less, tried to keep it PG and probably missed a ton of things. I am however typing this right after my game crashed playing Samut. Thank Rhonas I got by Temmet, literally.

Steeme

Some thoughts:

1. I hope Trial of Zeal "Standard" is a bug.  Seriously.

2. Agree 100% with Training Grounds.  It is a terrible place to test out your decks.  You need to test decks out with Standard format since those are usable in PVP, yet your opponents are still using all cards.  If they don't want to play Standard, you shouldn't have to play against them.

3. I blew 3000 crystals opening new Amonkhet cards.  Yes, I acquired some cards, but not enough to "compete" in this new Trials event.  New players don't stand a chance.

madwren

Boss health after 10 hours and 3 nodes: 96%

Sigh.

Ohboy

Ah I see we've started the cycle of complaining its too challenging , then complaining it's too boring again. 

Like clockwork.

Tigerpawz

I don't mind the challenge at all, and never really felt the other events were boring. It's still hard to obtain good cards, the problem now is it's just too hard when all prior effort and or monies spent is useless/invalidated etc.

I can't use a prior investment to advance I need to reinvest. I get the business decision but it's way too slanted in one direction right now.

gruntface

The good (and bad thing) about training ground is you only need 4 wins to hit the crystals and results don't carry. Without having to worry about those, I honestly found TG useful to try out standard decks against much stronger opponents. If a deck works against Olivia, battle bacon etc it stands a better chance in PvP and pve.

It may take more attempts to get the 4 wins but I've learned a lot more about deck construction in standard as a result.

Totally agree about the steep learning curve for newer players. Pve has always presented a challenge for them but in standard it is worse.

Given the extremely poor communication (even by d3h standards which is abysmally low) around standard rules for the current event my new norm is that any event with reasonable prizes will be standard and everything else will be open library. 

Final note: a lot of people are on the verge of quitting and for those that won't be able to beat, or even get to, 3.3, I think this event will be the final straw especially for those accustomed to being able to beat each node (even if it takes a couple of tries). I also don't think this conflicts in any way with the goals of d3h, sad to say.

madwren

Who said it was boring? The OP was complaining about the difficulty of the event coupled with the Standard restrictions.

The fact it's at 96%, however, indicates we're in for a long event, and seems markedly lower than previous ones.

UweTellkampf

Absolutely best part about Trial of Zeal – by far – and I mean by interstellar far, no, let me rephrase it: There has not been a single happier moment in my gaming life of 30 years than the moment I got a

B A S I C B O O S T E R

as the 3rd progression reward.
In Platinum. 

I jumped around happily like a chicken which for a first time in its life listens to Bon Jovi from the mouth of a Japanese Karaoke star on LSD by being on LSD itself.

But that is not all. When I thought it could not get any better, I opened a bottle of whiskey and opened the 

B A S I C B O O S T E R

and do you want to know what I got? No? I'll show it to you anyway:



Because, you know, probabilitieees. 

YAAAAY! 

Ohboy

Let's look back and see what happened in the last 2 events. 

They underestimated the amount of hp required.

Clearly this is an overreaction to the other side. 

Steeme

Ohboy said:

Let's look back and see what happened in the last 2 events. 

They underestimated the amount of hp required.

Clearly this is an overreaction to the other side. 

Ahoy there!  The issue is that we have been blindsided with the Standard restriction in a PVE event.  This actually has nothing to do with the event itself.  Challenges are always welcome.

Took me 5 tries and some deck ideas from Bianca in order to down Tezz 3.3 with my full library.  I considered that a challenge.

Fast forward to this new event.  It is a cruel joke if you cannot rely on low cost control and lifelink, both of which are missing in Standard.  Unless of course you already have the required cards from Amonkhet.

If the solution to these events is New Perspectives, Cast Out, and cycling, this is going to be a long, painful grind.

speakupaskanswer

People. You are overreacting. I really wish the devs don't take all of this hysteria too seriously and focus on the real bugs instead. After months of boredom this is fun and challenging again.

Don't get me wrong, the communication is still terrible, the bugs are embarrassing and the obvious lack of playtesting is more worrying than ever before, but the game is still/again fun and that's what counts.

Ohboy

Steeme said:

Ohboy said:

Let's look back and see what happened in the last 2 events. 

They underestimated the amount of hp required.

Clearly this is an overreaction to the other side. 

Ahoy there!  The issue is that we have been blindsided with the Standard restriction in a PVE event.  This actually has nothing to do with the event itself.  Challenges are always welcome.

Took me 5 tries and some deck ideas from Bianca in order to down Tezz 3.3 with my full library.  I considered that a challenge.

Fast forward to this new event.  It is a cruel joke if you cannot rely on low cost control and lifelink, both of which are missing in Standard.  Unless of course you already have the required cards from Amonkhet.

If the solution to these events is New Perspectives, Cast Out, and cycling, this is going to be a long, painful grind.

You realize this is what was said about tezz 2.

wereotter

Ohboy said:

Ah I see we've started the cycle of complaining its too challenging , then complaining it's too boring again. 

Like clockwork.

I seem to recall previous PvE events tweaked to be made harder over time. Especially as the number of cards available to is to use has been dramatically cut, it seems to me only sensible that the difficulty of the nodes on release is reduced, and then as time goes on, and more players have had more opportunities to get cards, increase the difficulty.

its apparent many cards we need aren't even in the game yet as we can see our opponent's playing them. One can use a variant of Exert Influence, another has another kind of Campaign of Vengeance. The cards for Temmet and Sammut (the actual cards, not their decks as a whole) are ridiculously powerful, and none of us can even try to get them as they're not in boosters yet.

its not just that half our library has been slashed, it's also that a bunch of resources have been denied us to try to rise to this challenge. 

Szamsziel

Hmm I have mixed feelings.  It's a challenge to cook new decks which is nice. Lack of Olivia caused me to redesign approach - any idea how to get lifelink in red? however the problem I see is amount of grind needed to get last reward (seriously 850???) and the bugs in game itself. 

BTW: kudos to developer for designing description for 2.3 Names ability!!!! 

mournfen

I like the new event. I do think the level of cards the AI has are way too powerful this early, Having already purchased 10 premium packs of AKH I am left with a paltry 9 rares (most of which are red, big no, no against 3.2.) I am having an incredibly difficult time playing because I don't have enough good standard cards and I only need 1 KLD rare. It is not about complaining it is too difficult, difficult would be the AI playing cards how they are intended,ie mirrorpool after a creature = not good. This as it stands is completely unfair to 1. new players and 2 anyone not willing to drop at least $200 in crystals (exception is everyone lucky enough to get good RNG pulls, getting 3 mythics in 1 PP)

morgue427

my biggest complaint is the gods, cant kill them, just exile is the only way to deal with them? 3.1 most everything they cast is a god and just keep growing so unless you have a perfect building game it seem impossible, and yes i have tried on a baral deck with kirin and even drake retreat. with all of them still couldnt keep anything alive long enough to get past him

Froggy

I'm happy with the event. I do agree that it may be overwhelming for new players. But I'm not sure how that could be "fixed". I started playing when SOI was already out. I had nothing to go with. Avacyn was OVERWHELMING. However, by the time EMN was out, I was able to beat Avacyn. Mind you, success rate was at around 20% - or less. But I was able to. I worked my way up. Eventually going on to being undefeated in RaTC events. Now, we have Zeal. It is a serious challenge. However! I really actually took the time to rethink my decks, figure out loops and ways to beat my opponent. And the rest? One lost game so far. That was to 3.3. And so I perfected my deck and took him out without a single scratch. So while I TOTALLY understand it if NEW players complain. I think some of us may be a little spoiled by the advantages we've had with stacked decks and forgot that Magic has always been, and will always be, DECK BUILDING. Even the dumbest cards in the right combo can be overwhelming.

I don't mean to knock anyone. Just pointing out that this is the game we chose to play and I think this is refreshing. It is a new start. Yes, frustrating at times. But still refreshing.

Ohboy

Thinking and changing your decks, froggy? 

The players in this game are super smart and don't need such silly things like thinking. The correct approach is to complain enough till the devs make the event easier, then complain it lasts too long and is too boring. 

Froggy

Ohboy said:

Thinking and changing your decks, froggy? 

The players in this game are super smart and don't need such silly things like thinking. The correct approach is to complain enough till the devs make the event easier, then complain it lasts too long and is too boring. 

I almost missed the sarcasm in that.

madwren

Certainly, there are those of us with the resources with which to adapt to various challenges--and yes, some players need to take a breath, pause, and re-examine their alternatives.

Many lower-tier or newish players have not amassed a stable of cards and planeswalkers, or haven't been sitting on a hoard of increasingly-hard-to-obtain currency.  Meanwhile, all the cards they worked hard to acquire are now null and void.  I support the existence of the Standard format, and think it's necessary for the game long-term

However, dismissing the concerns and complaints of those without those resources, or snidely insulting their frustration, is hitting below the belt. These people are wondering how they can compete in an increasingly whale-centric game. Have some **** empathy instead of smugly looking down on them.

shteev

Ohboy said:

Ah I see we've started the cycle of complaining its too challenging , then complaining it's too boring again. 

Like clockwork.

buscemi said:

Public Service Announcement: You can't just bolt two people with opposing views together and call it a hypocrite.

Who is this buscemi guy? Dude sure says some sensible things.