Bugs in the Update

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124

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  • Avacyn
    Avacyn Posts: 89 Match Maker
    edited May 2017
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    @Brigby @julianus

    I'm starting to believe Trample is what causing First and Double Strike to cancel out. Not Berserker.
    Many believe that Berserker is canceling out First Strike because we use spells to give First Striking creatures Berserker. not Trample, which is often accompanied with Berserker.

    Its why Phet-Crop Spearmaster and Brawler's Plate work properly. and not Giant Spectacle, Decimator of the province or Arlin's first ability. Because they also give Trample.

    So I went and tested another card that only gives Berserker. Stone Haven Outfitter (rare creature). First Strikes work just fine with him. But if you were to add haunted Cloak (which gives Trample). It well cancel.

    Many use Haunted Cloak for Vigilance and Giant Spectacle for Berserker. So when First Strike cancels with those cards. It's easy to assume it the Berserker or Vigilance canceling First Strike and overlook Trample (Myself included).

  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Avacyn
    Good job figuring this out! I tested a bit, and this would explain why a first striker with berserker and trample receives damage when attacking, but not when defending! The double strike, berserker and trample interaction is a bit more weird, but might have the same reason
  • rafalele
    rafalele Posts: 876 Critical Contributor
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    Ok, trample is the problem with first strike bug. My lone rider died (my planeswalker too) because of this and it has no berserker.
  • mournfen
    mournfen Posts: 89 Match Maker
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    Is scrapeheap scrounger suppose to trigger copies of itself?
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
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    mournfen said:
    Is scrapeheap scrounger suppose to trigger copies of itself?
    What do you mean exactly?
  • Szamsziel
    Szamsziel Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
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    Yes it is. As long any creature die all copies of scrapheap returns. If you have one scrapheap in graveyard and second on battlefield then they create pseudo - loop.  On death of one second is returned. 
  • Dropspot
    Dropspot Posts: 200 Tile Toppler
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    Szamsziel said:
    Yes it is. As long any creature die all copies of scrapheap returns. If you have one scrapheap in graveyard and second on battlefield then they create pseudo - loop.  On death of one second is returned. 
    I saw that for the first time yesterday. Not sure if it is by design or a bug. I thought it was by design.
  • Szamsziel
    Szamsziel Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
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    By design. As there are ways to counter it - I do not think it's going to be modified.
  • Modest_Supreme
    Modest_Supreme Posts: 26 Just Dropped In
    edited May 2017
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    I do not draw a card after cycling Oketra's Attendant.
    Also, the embalm ability does not activate even though Oketra's Attendant specifically says it goes in the graveyard instead of being exiled.  
    I don't think this card is working as intended whatsoever.
    The only thing that works is that it DOES count as being cycled if you have enough mana and exile it from your hand.

    Edit:  Added separate thread.  Sorry for double post, just thought it might be easier to find.
  • mournfen
    mournfen Posts: 89 Match Maker
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    Szamsziel said:
    Yes it is. As long any creature die all copies of scrapheap returns. If you have one scrapheap in graveyard and second on battlefield then they create pseudo - loop.  On death of one second is returned. 
    Thank you  this answered my question.......it needs to be fixed I played like a 30 minute match because of this. As for ways around please tell me the way around it in mono black. No sarcasm I can't figure it out. 

    Also the double strike berserk issue was that only for creatures that have first strike? I ran into an issue in training grounds I gave Olivia double strike and trample they had an Oblivion Sower and it dealt me damage twice and it had zero buffs.
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
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    mournfen said:
    Szamsziel said:
    Yes it is. As long any creature die all copies of scrapheap returns. If you have one scrapheap in graveyard and second on battlefield then they create pseudo - loop.  On death of one second is returned. 
    Thank you  this answered my question.......it needs to be fixed I played like a 30 minute match because of this. As for ways around please tell me the way around it in mono black. No sarcasm I can't figure it out. 

    Also the double strike berserk issue was that only for creatures that have first strike? I ran into an issue in training grounds I gave Olivia double strike and trample they had an Oblivion Sower and it dealt me damage twice and it had zero buffs.
    It's a feature, not a bug : no need to fix something that isn't broken.
    A way around it?
    Don't waste your spells to kill it. You need to kill another creature of him, to trigger all copies in the graveyard to the battlefield, then you can kill it. After all copies are in the graveyard : don't kill any of his creatures, unless you have two charged killing spells in the hand.
    Play the black God of AMK (well, that might be only possible if you had a lucky draw), that will make the Scrounger useless.

    The bug with the first- and double strike is activated by trample. Avoid giving trample, and first strike works fine!
  • mournfen
    mournfen Posts: 89 Match Maker
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    Laeuftbeidir said:
    mournfen said:
    Szamsziel said:
    Yes it is. As long any creature die all copies of scrapheap returns. If you have one scrapheap in graveyard and second on battlefield then they create pseudo - loop.  On death of one second is returned. 
    Thank you  this answered my question.......it needs to be fixed I played like a 30 minute match because of this. As for ways around please tell me the way around it in mono black. No sarcasm I can't figure it out. 

    Also the double strike berserk issue was that only for creatures that have first strike? I ran into an issue in training grounds I gave Olivia double strike and trample they had an Oblivion Sower and it dealt me damage twice and it had zero buffs.
    It's a feature, not a bug : no need to fix something that isn't broken.
    A way around it?
    Don't waste your spells to kill it. You need to kill another creature of him, to trigger all copies in the graveyard to the battlefield, then you can kill it. After all copies are in the graveyard : don't kill any of his creatures, unless you have two charged killing spells in the hand.
    Play the black God of AMK (well, that might be only possible if you had a lucky draw), that will make the Scrounger useless.

    The bug with the first- and double strike is activated by trample. Avoid giving trample, and first strike works fine!
    So there is not an efficient way to deal with a particular card if playing a particular color? Also I killed the first creature triggering all instances of SHS. When I killed SHS it cameback minus 1 instance. I had no issue dumping multiple kill spells, I had a hand of them. It just would not stay dead, even if killed after another creature.

    trample is the issue, thank you now I must rebuild my Koth deck.
  • hawkyh1
    hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2017
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    mournfen said:
    Laeuftbeidir said:
    mournfen said:
    Szamsziel said:
    Yes it is. As long any creature die all copies of scrapheap returns. If you have one scrapheap in graveyard and second on battlefield then they create pseudo - loop.  On death of one second is returned. 
    Thank you  this answered my question.......it needs to be fixed I played like a 30 minute match because of this. As for ways around please tell me the way around it in mono black. No sarcasm I can't figure it out. 

    Also the double strike berserk issue was that only for creatures that have first strike? I ran into an issue in training grounds I gave Olivia double strike and trample they had an Oblivion Sower and it dealt me damage twice and it had zero buffs.
    It's a feature, not a bug : no need to fix something that isn't broken.
    A way around it?
    Don't waste your spells to kill it. You need to kill another creature of him, to trigger all copies in the graveyard to the battlefield, then you can kill it. After all copies are in the graveyard : don't kill any of his creatures, unless you have two charged killing spells in the hand.
    Play the black God of AMK (well, that might be only possible if you had a lucky draw), that will make the Scrounger useless.

    The bug with the first- and double strike is activated by trample. Avoid giving trample, and first strike works fine!
    So there is not an efficient way to deal with a particular card if playing a particular color? Also I killed the first creature triggering all instances of SHS. When I killed SHS it cameback minus 1 instance. I had no issue dumping multiple kill spells, I had a hand of them. It just would not stay dead, even if killed after another creature.

    trample is the issue, thank you now I must rebuild my Koth deck.

    try prized amalgam + graf harvest? if it doesn't get
    trample or flying then ignore it. maybe it'll help grow
    your zombie. 

    HH
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @mournfen
    Yes, there is. Like I said - you have to get all of them on the board before killing them, so it won't trigger a copy in the graveyard. And to do so, you need to kill any other creature. It's simple. Also, since he doesn't have trample, every creature you play will prevent damage from the Planeswalker - and black has enough returning options.

    And yes, PA etc are also options, but not standard legal.
    By the way, that totally sounds like you faced something like my gather the Scraphead - Kiora!
  • mournfen
    mournfen Posts: 89 Match Maker
    edited May 2017
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    I the killed none scrapheap, nothing entered FoP. I kill Scrapheap it returns; triggering off itself. I know about killing other creatures first, I had killed nothing additional at this point. After killing both creatures first none scrapheap then scrapheap it still returned. It was against the new gideon.

  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
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    mournfen said:
    I the killed none scrapheap, nothing entered FoP. I kill Scrapheap it returns; triggering off itself. I know about killing other creatures first, I had killed nothing additional at this point. After killing both creatures first none scrapheap then scrapheap it still returned.
    This actually doesn't sound right. You killed both creatures - not scrap and scrap - in one turn? Not two? If so, it actually might be somehow bugged.
  • Modest_Supreme
    Modest_Supreme Posts: 26 Just Dropped In
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    Laeuftbeidir said:
    mournfen said:
    I the killed none scrapheap, nothing entered FoP. I kill Scrapheap it returns; triggering off itself. I know about killing other creatures first, I had killed nothing additional at this point. After killing both creatures first none scrapheap then scrapheap it still returned.
    This actually doesn't sound right. You killed both creatures - not scrap and scrap - in one turn? Not two? If so, it actually might be somehow bugged.
    A Scrapheap dying can trigger a separate Scrapheap that is in the GY.  Unless they reinforce, they are 2 separate cards.
  • mournfen
    mournfen Posts: 89 Match Maker
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    Yes it can trigger a second, but in the same turn I killed both creatures. Nothing entered on the first creature destroyed. 
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
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    ewvyx said:
    Laeuftbeidir said:
    mournfen said:
    I the killed none scrapheap, nothing entered FoP. I kill Scrapheap it returns; triggering off itself. I know about killing other creatures first, I had killed nothing additional at this point. After killing both creatures first none scrapheap then scrapheap it still returned.
    This actually doesn't sound right. You killed both creatures - not scrap and scrap - in one turn? Not two? If so, it actually might be somehow bugged.
    A Scrapheap dying can trigger a separate Scrapheap that is in the GY.  Unless they reinforce, they are 2 separate cards.
    Yes, that was my original point.
    That's why I asked if he killed a creature that wasn't the scrap first, in the same turn. That would trigger every copy in the graveyard, making it possible to clear the board.
  • julianus
    julianus Posts: 188 Tile Toppler
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    mournfen said:
    I the killed none scrapheap, nothing entered FoP. I kill Scrapheap it returns; triggering off itself. I know about killing other creatures first, I had killed nothing additional at this point. After killing both creatures first none scrapheap then scrapheap it still returned. It was against the new gideon.


    You were playing black - had you used a discard effect on your opponent? There might have been one in the graveyard in that case, without it first entering the battlefield.


    Also, bugs. I've seen a few bugs with Scrapheap over the last few months.

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