Conspiracy time - The dark avengers.

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Wumpushunter
Wumpushunter Posts: 627 Critical Contributor
in MPQ General Discussion
The powers given to many of the dark avengers and the fact that 1/2 the time we are fighting dark avengers leads me to believe they are specifically designed to rack up health packs from players. Cheap powers that self damage which people always say are bad, defense tiles all over to lengthen fights, easy strike tile generation all scream significant damage that requires healing.

What is your conspiracy theory for mpq?
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  • aa25
    aa25 Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
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    My counter arguments.
    • Cheap powers: Jugg (red&green), daken (blue - without strike tiles, it does very low damage though), Rag (red - quite low damage still), Ares (green, maybe his yellow too, but 8 ap is an average, imo)
    • Expensive powers: Moonie's red(11 ap), Venom's black(11 ap), 2*Bullseye (green 11 ap and black 16ap!! ), Yelena (13&19 AP powers!!), Rag (Green 14 ap)
    I don't think they are biased toward cheap power as you claimed.
    • Protect tiles: From 2* bullseye ? I think the real time-consuming part is the banners that flash every single time a purple-match is made. His tiles are pretty weak.
    • Strike tiles: From 2* daken ? Again, his tiles are very weak (Well, the bug that let him double dips the tiles are indeed annoying.)
    I think what you see is actually having goon feeding AP into those DA.
  • mpqr7
    mpqr7 Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
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    It's just because it takes a lot of effort to make new PVEs. Development, licensing, writing, graphics, etc. I appreciate all new content when they are able to push it out.
  • orbitalint
    orbitalint Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
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    Counter point... (Fires up Pepperidge Farm meme). 

    They toned down scaling for powers for 1* and 2* at higher levels. Even 3*. All DA are in those tiers.

    Ares used to do 500+/AP at a time that 10k was a lot of health. They don't do that level of damage anymore proportionate to health pools today. Those were the days this was a better theory. Taking a 3k hit from Ares is laughable now and that's at my max scaling.
  • Wumpushunter
    Wumpushunter Posts: 627 Critical Contributor
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    Didn't say the dark avengers  were player killers or even hard, I said if you can face 230 Ares, Jug and Rag (or daken/moonstone)and not have to use at least two health packs you are running a true healing team or a 4/5 team. 
  • MojoWild
    MojoWild Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
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    No, they're just holdovers from the original versions of the game when it used to be MPQ: Dark Reign and many events centered around fighting Dark Avengers, mainly because there wasn't a lot else to fight against.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
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    It IS true that Bullseye, Daken, and Moonstone (especially Moonstone) have more health when scaled up than you would expect given their hit points at levels 15-94.

    For example, 2* Magneto's HP at 144 is 7548, 57.4% higher than his HP at level 94 (4998). (This is, give or take, true of all 3*s and 4*s between those two levels).

    Moonstone's HP at 144 is 10123, 88.9% higher than her HP at 94, which is 5586. At 94 she has 11.7% more HP than Magneto, at 144 she has 34.1% more. 

    So, yeah.
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
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    Wumpushunter said:
    Didn't say the dark avengers  were player killers or even hard, I said if you can face 230 Ares, Jug and Rag (or daken/moonstone)and not have to use at least two health packs you are running a true healing team or a 4/5 team. 

    If you have a well developed 3 star roster you can avoid this to. But yeah, I remember the early days and I loathed the dark avengers for the longest time. 
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,115 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Wumpushunter said:
    ...... I said if you can face 230 Ares, Jug and Rag (or daken/moonstone)and not have to use at least two health packs you are running a true healing team or a 4/5 team. 
    Really?  Level 230 is no big deal.  Ares, Jug and Rag all share red and green, so it's easy to color deny.  You could play IM40, Kamala, 3*Rogers to beat them easily with no health packs needed, and that's all 3*s.  In 4* land, I play IM40, Rhulk, Peggy.  No true healing or 5* needed, and that's against level 320 Dark Avengers.

    The quicker you kill them, the less health you lose.  As Wolverine once said, "the best defense is a good offense".
  • Orion
    Orion Posts: 1,295 Chairperson of the Boards
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    They didn't nerf Venom twice because he was on 10% of all PvE teams.  They did it so he'd be easier to beat like all of the other DA.  1*s and 2*s don't scale like they used to.  Remember when Jugs was on all of the BoP teams?  Now he's pretty laughable in that event except for his health.  Dark Avengers are purposedly weaker than most.
  • aa25
    aa25 Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
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    Wumpushunter said:
    Didn't say the dark avengers  were player killers or even hard, I said if you can face 230 Ares, Jug and Rag (or daken/moonstone)and not have to use at least two health packs you are running a true healing team or a 4/5 team. 
    I don't know how your roster looks like, but if you have to deal with lv230 DA, it sounds like you are being punished by 5* scaling. No one knows exactly how the scaling work, but the best theory I heard so far is it is based on the average of the 4 highest level characters in your roster (not included boosted level).
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Orion said:
    They didn't nerf Venom twice because he was on 10% of all PvE teams.  They did it so he'd be easier to beat like all of the other DA.  1*s and 2*s don't scale like they used to.  Remember when Jugs was on all of the BoP teams?  Now he's pretty laughable in that event except for his health.  Dark Avengers are purposedly weaker than most.
    His team ups might have been on 10% of all teams ;) 100% of teams with Miles Morales, certainly.
  • Punisher5784
    Punisher5784 Posts: 3,837 Chairperson of the Boards
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    The Dark Avengers were a huge pain back when we didn't have as many characters to choose from. Now there's so many counters to them that they're easy. I would agree they àre very difficult for new players but this inspires you to improve your roster. Improving your roster either takes alot of time or alot of money but it's all doable.
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Wumpushunter said:
    The powers given to many of the dark avengers and the fact that 1/2 the time we are fighting dark avengers leads me to believe they are specifically designed to rack up health packs from players. Cheap powers that self damage which people always say are bad, defense tiles all over to lengthen fights, easy strike tile generation all scream significant damage that requires healing.

    What is your conspiracy theory for mpq?
    This was exactly my theory for original Carnage. Not designed to use, but designed to be fought.

    I seem to remember thinking similar things when Ares suddenly showed up, a new 2* after a long while when I was creeping into 3* land.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
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    To everyone saying "oh, Dark Avengers are easy now": Go play against level 440 versions.

    Ares does about 7K on green, 10K on yellow, 8K on red.
    Juggs headbutts for 18K.
    Moonstone 7K on purple.
    Daken does a combined 7-8K on blue with 2 strikes out.

    Have fun entering 5* land with the broken scaling above level 350.

  • Daiches
    Daiches Posts: 1,252 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
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    I would love to fight level 230 Dark Avengers. Much easier than level 420. Easy node Dark Avengers go to level 176 or so..

    i would even be happy with the level cap of 395 returning. Even that would be muc much easier because scaling is exponential.
  • Phillipes
    Phillipes Posts: 431 Mover and Shaker
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    I agree with OP. We need to realize that DA toons were buffed some time ago. For example devs added green power for 2* Bullseye, they reworked Rags - he is more dangerous than before, an don´t forget they reworked Moonstones black. From utterly uselles to dangerous, because players have many special tiles creators now. Or 2* Daken, devs add his blue ability.
    So yes.
    I agree.
    When these buff were made, I suppose major part of community weren´t using 2* anymore, but we are all forced to play against them from whole beggining. And these fights are much more difficult.
  • mpqr7
    mpqr7 Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
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    High level DAs can be pretty bad. But the worst high level PVE enemies are the Muscles. They always make me want to throw my phone in the sink.
  • JackTenrec
    JackTenrec Posts: 808 Critical Contributor
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    mpqr7 said:
    High level DAs can be pretty bad. But the worst high level PVE enemies are the Muscles. They always make me want to throw my phone in the sink.
    Ahem. 2 * Muscle + Bullseye.

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