40 Card Deck?

deletedgone

In March of last year, @Hibernum_JC explained the way decks are supposed to work in game in mtgpq:

Four copies of each card are used to form a virtual 40 card deck.  When the deck is depleted, another 40 cards are appended.  Likewise, when a card fetches a fifth instance of a card (i.e. Deploy is looking for three creatures in a mono-creature deck after two have been cast) another 40 cards are appended.

There have been a few instances recently of this not being the case.  Noted have been:

Koth drawing 5 Olivias in first 7 cards with no fetching.

Saheeli drawing 5 Talent of the Telepath by turn 3 (each time, fetching a different card).

@Hibernum_JC @Brigby @LakeStone

 Would you mind checking as to whether something has changed in how the game is intended to function?

Thank you.

shteev

Thanks for starting this thread

I've been noticing for a while now that it's possible to draw 5 copies of a card before having drawn 4 copies of all the others, even without any searching of decks going on to possibly confuse the numbers.

My hypothesis at the moment would be that the deck works exactly the same as before, but now has 60 cards (Always best, when trying to guess the inner workings of Hibernum, to assume they've done as little work as possible. I call it 'Hibernum's Razor').

Getting some official word on this would be nice.

Steeme

shteev said:

I call it 'Hibernum's Razor'

Brilliant!

Mburn7

I've been noticing this as well, although usually when I draw 5 mirrorpools in 6 turns

deletedgone

@Hibernum_JC

Since you are around today, any chance you could take a look at this?

jetnoctis

I have noticed this too. 5 Metalwork Colossi (pl?) by turn 7. Multiple other instances, too. How does this happen if the deck is meant to be 40 cards? Honestly, I really don't think it's been 40 for quite a while now.

deletedgone

@Brigby @LakeStone @Hibernum_JC

Bump

Does Aven Mindcensor mean that something in the library mechanic is changing?  Is there still (was there ever) a 40 card deck?  Inquiring minds...

Brigby

@spesler

Hi Everyone. Yes. Decks are in fact maxed out at 40. There was a bug with Saheeli causing it to go to 50, but it should be fixed in 2.1

When it comes to any other Planeswalkers, the development team will be sure to investigate.

toastie

Brigby said:

@spesler

Hi Everyone. Yes. Decks are in fact maxed out at 40. There was a bug with Saheeli causing it to go to 50, but it should be fixed in 2.1

When it comes to any other Planeswalkers, the development team will be sure to investigate.

Can we get further details on how this is supposed to work, and what wasn't working?

Specifcially:
- What happens when you get to the end of your deck? 
- How does fetching the next X from your deck work if you go past the end of the deck?
- What about destroying cards out of your deck (i.e. Gather the Pack)?
-  What is the point of Aven Mindcensor / Compelling Argument?

deletedgone

@Brigby

Thank you for responding!

I understand that the dev team is very busy right now, but in the same vein as @toastie's post, do you think someone might be able to go into a bit more detail in the next week or so?

Brigby

@toastie @spesler

Great questions! Not sure when they'll have time to answer in depth, but I can pass it along to them, and I'll relay their responses when they do get the chance to answer.

EDHdad

@Brigby - I'm also interested in the points @toastie brings up.  Also, is the exile which is done with Aven Mindcensor different from the exile which you do when you pitch cards from your hand?  Do cycle cards go to the graveyard or the exile zone?  Thanks!

blacklotus

all these basic game mechanics should be explained in an official faq page. Is there one on mtgpq official facebook page? If there isn't, i think it is about time for the developer to write one. 

Brigby

@EDHdad To my knowledge, Cycling and Aven Mindcensor utilize the same Exile mechanic, just in different scenarios. Having said that though, the final release notes will have much more of a detailed explanation of how Cycling, and the Exile stack, works.

@blacklotus We actually do have a list explaining all of the in-game abilities, here: MTGPQ Abilities Gallery

Once 2.1 is live, and the final release notes are revealed, we'll be sure to update this to include Embalm, Exert, and Cycling

Thuran

@Brigby But the page does not seem to explain why aven mindcensor would be at all playable. Exiling the top card of a deck is completely worthless in a game where you have endless copies of a card (since extra copies are simply generated if you have run out previously).

Can we please get an explanation for this? It seems baffling that the dev team made a rare that is a 3/2 flier for 10 mana WITH NO ABILITIES. Why on earth would you ever care about exiling cards from the enemy library, if they simply get 4 new copies whenever they have run out of previous copies? 

Also, regarding game mechanics, are there any plans to ever make the graveyard visible? And how about letting us see the exile zone while at it? 

It seems like certain parts of Amonkhet were designed by people who have no idea how the game works, so it would be nice to get some clarifications on what they were thinking when they made those cards  

Brigby

@Thuran

The developers confirmed that decks are maxed out at 40 cards, therefore players do not receive endless copies of a card; only 4. The way I see it, the purpose of exile cards that target the opponent's library is to act as a way of milling/denying the opponent.

When it comes to making the graveyard and/or exile stack visible, I have passed that inquiry along to the developers. I will relay their response when I hear back from them.

Laeuftbeidir

@Brigby
That is some very interesting news!
Is it a change in the upcoming update? Today I was able to play at least 12 copies of the same creature in one match, so it's either *fake news* or a new feature.. In this case it needs to be announced, since it has a vital impact on a lot of deck strategies.

deletedgone

Brigby said:

@Thuran

The developers confirmed that decks are maxed out at 40 cards, therefore players do not receive endless copies of a card; only 4. The way I see it, the purpose of exile cards that target the opponent's library is to act as a way of milling/denying the opponent.

When it comes to making the graveyard and/or exile stack visible, I have passed that inquiry along to the developers. I will relay their response when I hear back from them.

@Brigby is this real?  This would be a major change - probably the biggest ever.

Brigby

@Laeuftbeidir @spesler

Decks are confirmed to max out at 40 cards, however I will double check about the number of card copies players are able to summon. If the intent was never to have players summon more than 4 copies of a card, then it would in fact be a bug, and I agree it would be quite a significant change.

I will be sure to relay the developers' responses once I hear back from them about it.

deletedgone

Thank you @Brigby

blacklotus

yes, Brigby. please clarify with the dev if indeed v2.1 will be hardcoded with 40 cards per player per battle and no more. Exiles and discards will definitely play a very big role and new strategies will have to be thought up. Milling to win will be a new and possible strategy. 

Currently, we have a new 40 card deck randomly generated and added to the initial 40 cards if we need to draw or fetch more than 4 copies of a single card. And the supply is endless. Hence milling as a winning strategy does not work.