Maybe it's time to expand rewards again

TheDobot

In this Meet Rocket and Groot event I played clearance lvl 8, with the last ending time.  I've played as close to optimal as one can with a job.  I reached the 15 cp reward and was still only ranked at place 185.  I had to grind another 11K of points just to crack the top 100.  I understand this is a character release event, but I find it very stale and unrewarding to just grind away for nothing.  

Why can't rewards continue?  The vaults or the token odds are not in the players favor, so why can't we get event tokens after the final 15cp.  Honestly, at that point, we should be earning event tokens every 1K in points past the cp reward for that much work and effort.   

 If not then its time for clearance lvl 9 because its getting ridiculous to not even be close to the top 100 once you hit the final cp reward.  

acescracked

I joined s5 cl8 also and hardly played optimal.  Final sub I didn't even start timers until 7 hours after start (fell asleep after prior sub final grind). I finished 30th.

When you joined the event how full was the bracket? Did you join after a sub flip where others had played previous sub?

Edit: finished with 47,609 points. I obviously late joined.

Bowgentle

Surprise! People are going hard for new releases!

There's a reason alliance minimums for T100 are about 1.5 max prog.

Just plan your clears accordingly and you'll be fine - everyone else is doing it.

Quebbster

Bowgentle said:

Surprise! People are going hard for new releases!

There's a reason alliance minimums for T100 are about 1.5 max prog.

Just plan your clears accordingly and you'll be fine - everyone else is doing it.

Yeah, new releases are crazy. I tend to take a zen approach and will be content as long as I get top 100 and a single cover for the new character so I can unlock the essential nodes next PvE. With my playing habits, it's not that difficult.

This was probably the first release in a while where I actually put in a lot of effort but still didn't get top 20. Could be because interest in Grocket is unusually high, could also be that I played in Another slice than I usually do. Or both.

spectator

No need to grind, with vaulting you will be drowning in rocket and groot covers soon enough

WEBGAS

acescracked said:

I joined s5 cl8 also and hardly played optimal.  Final sub I didn't even start timers until 7 hours after start (fell asleep after prior sub final grind). I finished 30th.

When you joined the event how full was the bracket? Did you join after a sub flip where others had played previous sub?

Edit: finished with 47,609 points. I obviously late joined.

I AM happy for you, but this is defenitely a big fail in this game. Every PVE is not only a matter of right timing and grinding, because people who are lucky enough to find an easy bracket are able to gain the top prizes with half the hard work that the majority of players have to do.
This is not fair. My 66500 points net me a rank 4 in my bracket, but in my alliance, players with 54k got the top 3. And I know players that manage to get in top100 with 34k points.

PROGRESSION REWARDS ONLY could be the solution : if you manage to get the points required, you will get the rewards. No tricks, no Luck involved. Just play at your own time and peace, as much as you want, whenever you want.
Fair and simple

Magic

It's not just a new realease. It's a release for a character that might challenge the top. That's why it's so tough. I normally don't do release events anymore (well not fighting for more than top100). In this one I was grinding as hard as I could. Still - only got top20 (good for 3 covers with the alliance, 4th in the next progression and 5th in PvP - good start). There was no such competition for Riri or Cloak. But for a potential top dog - you need to grind to get him.

DrDevilDinosaur

I played in cl7, did 4/6 clears and finished 22 or 23. I would have done a few extra clears if I had known I was that close.

I guess it's pretty weird that I can basically cruise through an event without really paying attention and get nearly the same reward as someone grinding thousands of points.

JamieMadrox

The official line about why rewards are not expanded up is because f you set a reward at X progression then people will feel compelled to hit that progression. It's the same reason why there are no PVP rewards beyond 1200.

Gmax101

Except that people are already forced to go way above that for placement... which seems counter intuitive.

On one hand, they claim that setting progression at a certain limit shows that they don't want people to grind above that... I could accept that....

but at the same time setting all the perceived value of an event, especially on release events, behind placement creates competition that forces scores up...

They simply cant have it both ways...

All the current process engenders is bracket sniping or excessive grinding with no benefit.... neither of which represent a healthy game structure or happy player base.

Where as if you got a new release Cover at Progression +10% and then another at Progression +25% and then the third at Progression +50% you would have the same players and alliances getting the full rewards, a few more players getting a bit more for the same effort and avoid the bitterness when you grind to +30% or higher and not hit top 100, or find out that a player that didn't even achieve full progression got a Top 10 cos they lucked out on a new bracket by joining late.

Same is true of PVP. The gap between 900 and 1200 points is huge and I never even try to bridge it... but that doesn't stop the competitive players hitting 2K plus for that additional 4* cover from placement.

Placement forces scores higher. Claiming that low Progression targets shows that the game is not designed for over-grinding is just false.

It is also no surprise that the Thanos event as a new release was well received as basically any one in even a casual alliance got all 3 covers of the new 3* with minimal effort.

Why the protectionism on a 4*?

WEBGAS

They say that don't want us to grind too much but with the actual placement rewards it s a bloodbath.
With progression rewards, players will get what they wanted.
Do you want 1 cover? Just aim for the progression +10%
Want 2 covers? aim for progression +25%
If you want all 3 covers, well you know that you will have to play for progression +50%.

But you  know that if you will manage to reach that goal, you will receive the prize.

Actually, many players hit progression + 50% and don't get the top 10 so they miss the 3 covers, while others with progression only got all three because they found an easier bracket...this is complitely unfair! 

Bowgentle

WEBGAS said:

Actually, many players hit progression + 50% and don't get the top 10 so they miss the 3 covers, while others with progression only got all three because they found an easier bracket...this is complitely unfair! 

It's not unfair.
Bracket sniping in PVE can backfire horribly, and some time slices NEVER flip after day 1 - good luck trying to get an easy bracket in slice 2.

Some people gamble and get lucky because they can't be bothered with playing a full PVE.
A lot of people do NOT get lucky and lose out on progression AND covers because they started on the last day.

It's like saying it's unfair that people can start PVP on the last day and still get 1200 and T5.

rossmon

I hit progression+ 50% and didn't get T50.  I'm still not complaining... I could have done better by sniping a late bracket, but then would have guaranteed that I didn't get the alliance cover.  I also would have missed out on tokens and ISO and the competitive nature of the game.... R&G won't be usable for awhile, so the extra cover doesn't make that much difference. 

WEBGAS

I tried once the late bracket lottery (on Carol Denvers release) joining after 18 hours, but I was unlucky so it's not for me. But I feel that people commited with this game, that play well over the full progression, should be awardered with better rewards than those who only get lucky and play less.... Just my opinion, anyway 

Megdar

It is not luck at all...

People watch sheet like this one and join when they see it flip:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1g24uo61ITTveZrUGx4ZY5nMoJp-n1NCxq5r4WMhAJU0/edit#gid=0

I always do that, awlays.

granne

WEBGAS said:

acescracked said:

I joined s5 cl8 also and hardly played optimal.  Final sub I didn't even start timers until 7 hours after start (fell asleep after prior sub final grind). I finished 30th.

When you joined the event how full was the bracket? Did you join after a sub flip where others had played previous sub?

Edit: finished with 47,609 points. I obviously late joined.

I AM happy for you, but this is defenitely a big fail in this game. Every PVE is not only a matter of right timing and grinding, because people who are lucky enough to find an easy bracket are able to gain the top prizes with half the hard work that the majority of players have to do.
This is not fair. My 66500 points net me a rank 4 in my bracket, but in my alliance, players with 54k got the top 3. And I know players that manage to get in top100 with 34k points.

PROGRESSION REWARDS ONLY could be the solution : if you manage to get the points required, you will get the rewards. No tricks, no Luck involved. Just play at your own time and peace, as much as you want, whenever you want.
Fair and simple

Everyone in the T20 in my bracket (slice 2, SCL 8) finished with 66k+ points. I got 39th with 64k+, and I'm okay with that because I don't have the time or energy to try for more than one cover. Looking at that, though, it does seem crazy that I hit 1.6x maximum progression for the sake of a single cover. One of my alliance-mates was 102nd in his bracket with 57k+, which is maddening.

I like the idea of progression only, but it would need to be done carefully. I think an argument could be made that it makes the most sense in new release situations, because people are more likely to play harder, and will be more inclined to invest time (and/or money) in a new character if they can earn more covers sooner.

mpqr7

Jamie Madrox said:

The official line about why rewards are not expanded up is because f you set a reward at X progression then people will feel compelled to hit that progression. It's the same reason why there are no PVP rewards beyond 1200.

I have heard that official line many times, but like others on this thread, I don't buy it. If that were the case, then doing max progression would entitle you to top 100, so you'd get the new release.

As it is, in order to make a high enough placement for the prizes you want, you often need to grind lots of nodes past their green check marks, so you're not receiving node rewards or shield intercepts. You're just basically spending your own free time in hopes that your placement will be high enough.

So it becomes a lot of work just to get one single cover (that you will easily be able to get plenty of a week or so later).



And it's not like having max pvp reward at 1200 has stopped certain people from scoring 2000, 3000 and even 4000 or more points in a single PVP. I get excited for a possible top 10 prize, and then I see I'll need to break 2000, and I'm all like "hey, save some points for the rest of us!"


So basically to that company-lined response, I say.... we need to score higher to get more placement anyway, so we might as well get some sort of progression reward for it... instead of just the possibility of winning a certain placement prize (which is not at all guaranteed if others grind harder than we do).

MadScientist

You could also gain 1 ISO per 10 points above max progression or something like that. This does not gove the incentive to grind to a particular goal but gives some rewards for keeping playing.

Nepenthe

mpqr7 said:

Jamie Madrox said:

The official line about why rewards are not expanded up is because f you set a reward at X progression then people will feel compelled to hit that progression. It's the same reason why there are no PVP rewards beyond 1200.

I have heard that official line many times, but like others on this thread, I don't buy it. If that were the case, then doing max progression would entitle you to top 100, so you'd get the new release.

As it is, in order to make a high enough placement for the prizes you want, you often need to grind lots of nodes past their green check marks, so you're not receiving node rewards or shield intercepts. You're just basically spending your own free time in hopes that your placement will be high enough.

So it becomes a lot of work just to get one single cover (that you will easily be able to get plenty of a week or so later).



And it's not like having max pvp reward at 1200 has stopped certain people from scoring 2000, 3000 and even 4000 or more points in a single PVP. I get excited for a possible top 10 prize, and then I see I'll need to break 2000, and I'm all like "hey, save some points for the rest of us!"


So basically to that company-lined response, I say.... we need to score higher to get more placement anyway, so we might as well get some sort of progression reward for it... instead of just the possibility of winning a certain placement prize (which is not at all guaranteed if others grind harder than we do).

I would personally like more progression rewards after the current 15 CP reward, because I green-check every node even when not grinding extra for placement.  But I do buy the official line there, because I've also seen people on this forum asking for top progression reward to be lowered to only needing 3 clears to reach instead of 4. So there are people who probably wouldn't like to see a reward you have to do 6 or 7 full clears to reach.

Maybe if rewards after the 15 CP were iso-only, it would give us a bonus if you want to go for it, but wouldn't be as vital as covers or CP, so the more casual players wouldn't get as upset? 

Orion

So Clearance Level 8 is supposed to be the game's top players. I mean you can't go any higher right now, so this is currently the top.

So why the tinykitty is the game so stingy that it gives a single 4* cover to only 10% of the CL8 players?  I don't care about progression, I'm talking about placement. CL8 should be giving out a new release 4*s to at least the top 300. These are your vets!  These are the ones that need 4*s right now. 4*s aren't even the top characters in the game!  Stop being so ridiculous, D3.

Straycat

I would be happy for more rewards, but I only grind this much for new releases. Placement and progression are completely different games. I don't even bother trying for top 10. I usually get top 100 for new releases, but that generally just means 6 clears each.
 
We complain already that 4 clears for full progression is a grind. If they pushed full progression to something else, then people would still try to get full progression. The rewards taper off so much after the 4* cover for 2 clears each already.

Placement is for people really dedicated, I kinda like that they test our dedication by giving nothing after 6 clears.