I feel it's an inevitability....

DyingLegend

How long until they nerf Ironman Model 40. I mean think about it, they nerfed OML because he was overused, I'm willing to bet that IM40 is one of the most used 3* in the game currently. I'm not saying he needs to be nerfed, I think he is just fine, but due to there recent justification on OML for being overused, will other characters see the same treatment?

Thoughts? I'm a bit bored waiting for my Thanos nodes to reset.......

Dragon_Nexus

They don't need to nerf him so much as maybe tweak him just a little.
If they increased the cost of his yellow to 7, maybe, so you'd need 3 yellow matches. I think that's literally all it would take to make him just slightly less powerful.

The buff they gave him was perfect for making him viable rather than the bottom tier 3* he was previously. However it also made him a little *too* viable. Really it's down to his yellow, his red and blue are absolutely fine exactly how they are.

And the only thing potentially wrong with his yellow is the cost. I just hope they don't say "We've changed the cost, it's now 12AP regardless of how many covers you have" because that would simply ruin him completely.

It would be like if Scarlet Witch's passive no longer affected team up tiles. Can you imagine if they did that!?

nyck1118

I agree.  when we had that "Bug" that made his Yellow cost 8 AP he felt fine. if anything maybe shave 1 AP off red and Blue. at the most.

DyingLegend

After the change to team up tiles, I barely use Switch anymore. She became too unreliable in my opinion. He blue for me always got placed between team up tiles, or if I had a 5 combo for my next turn ready, her passive blue would always ruin it somehow. 

zodiac339

nyck1118 said:

I agree.  when we had that "Bug" that made his Yellow cost 8 AP he felt fine. if anything maybe shave 1 AP off red and Blue. at the most.

Red doesn't need its cost reduced. The damage it deals for a 3 star is high enough to justify its cost. Blue, on the other hand, costs more that Whales, Whales, Whales and Embiggened Bash. More than Call the Storm as well. The AP drain could be removed from blue without it being overpowered.

bluewolf

One difference between IM40 and OML is that OML could have won a match on his own/last man standing.  IM is in big trouble, usually, if everyone else is down.  He needs to be paired with someone else to be top-tier - aka part of a team.  Plus, he gives 3* players a chance at competing with higher rosters (to a limited degree).  Once you are solidly in 4* land, he gets a lot less use, other than a climbing buddy in PVP for Peggy/Bobby/4Thor/etc.

Phumade

zodiac339 said:

nyck1118 said:

I agree.  when we had that "Bug" that made his Yellow cost 8 AP he felt fine. if anything maybe shave 1 AP off red and Blue. at the most.

Red doesn't need its cost reduced. The damage it deals for a 3 star is high enough to justify its cost. Blue, on the other hand, costs more that Whales, Whales, Whales and Embiggened Bash. More than Call the Storm as well. The AP drain could be removed from blue without it being overpowered.

I think nyck means shave 1 red and 1 blue ap off the what im recharge generates per countdown.  With 3 countdown tiles,  he's effectively advocating for 3 less red and 3 less blue ap

BatteryHorse

zodiac339 said:

nyck1118 said:

I agree.  when we had that "Bug" that made his Yellow cost 8 AP he felt fine. if anything maybe shave 1 AP off red and Blue. at the most.

Red doesn't need its cost reduced. The damage it deals for a 3 star is high enough to justify its cost. Blue, on the other hand, costs more that Whales, Whales, Whales and Embiggened Bash. More than Call the Storm as well. The AP drain could be removed from blue without it being overpowered.

That's true, but that's not at all uncommon in the 3* tier.  You'll often see two solid powers and one that's weak, situational or expensive.  Just like how most powers in the 3* tier that involve special tiles put them in random places, and then you get to 4 and 5* and you more often get to choose your location, or they have two functions, etc.

I agree that IM40's blue power is his weakest, and it doesn't hold up to the other powerful 3* AoEs, but it's still better than any power a lot of other weak 3's have, and giving IM40 3 well-balanced powers would just exacerbate the problem.  I'm fine with him having a strong red, an AP generating yellow and a too-expensive blue.  That sounds like a solid 3* to me.

StreetPreacher

Don't need to nerf Iron Man, just need to give the players other options for AP batteries. Reduce Mystique's purple to 6. Give AP generation to a bottom tier hero like Beast. His blue animation is perfect for an AP battery. If he was the first character to give yellow, he'd be playable.

sandalsnopants

Since I champed Strange and Thanos, I've almost completely stopped using IM40, so I kind of hope he does get nerfed to make PVP easier for me.  

DyingLegend

BatteryHorse said:

zodiac339 said:

nyck1118 said:

I agree.  when we had that "Bug" that made his Yellow cost 8 AP he felt fine. if anything maybe shave 1 AP off red and Blue. at the most.

Red doesn't need its cost reduced. The damage it deals for a 3 star is high enough to justify its cost. Blue, on the other hand, costs more that Whales, Whales, Whales and Embiggened Bash. More than Call the Storm as well. The AP drain could be removed from blue without it being overpowered.

That's true, but that's not at all uncommon in the 3* tier.  You'll often see two solid powers and one that's weak, situational or expensive.  Just like how most powers in the 3* tier that involve special tiles put them in random places, and then you get to 4 and 5* and you more often get to choose your location, or they have two functions, etc.

I agree that IM40's blue power is his weakest, and it doesn't hold up to the other powerful 3* AoEs, but it's still better than any power a lot of other weak 3's have, and giving IM40 3 well-balanced powers would just exacerbate the problem.  I'm fine with him having a strong red, an AP generating yellow and a too-expensive blue.  That sounds like a solid 3* to me.

I'm not saying he is broken or not a solid 3. I think he is one of the best. I fear his overuse will lead to a nerf if they follow the same ideology as OML.

DyingLegend

StreetPreacher said:

Don't need to nerf Iron Man, just need to give the players other options for AP batteries. Reduce Mystique's purple to 6. Give AP generation to a bottom tier hero like Beast. His blue animation is perfect for an AP battery. If he was the first character to give yellow, he'd be playable.

I like the idea of buffing other characters to have a more defined utility so we don't have to rely on one character to do everything.

DyingLegend

zodiac339 said:

nyck1118 said:

I agree.  when we had that "Bug" that made his Yellow cost 8 AP he felt fine. if anything maybe shave 1 AP off red and Blue. at the most.

Red doesn't need its cost reduced. The damage it deals for a 3 star is high enough to justify its cost. Blue, on the other hand, costs more that Whales, Whales, Whales and Embiggened Bash. More than Call the Storm as well. The AP drain could be removed from blue without it being overpowered.

I agree that the blue is pricey and his worse ability. I mean look at GSBW. Her green destroys the whole board at a 19 AP cost and does more damage. Although what can be said about those two is there other abilities fuel they high cost rate of their powerful abilities. The only difference is you want to use Sniper rifle and you don't want to use salvo

Vhailorx

It might happen, but i feel that im40 is already past his prime for 4* play.  So a nerf would be rather wasted on him now.

9 months ago im40 + a couple of of good red/blue 4*s and you could hit 1k in every pvp without trouble (and crush pve).

But the increase in Iso and 4* distribution rates last fall have really had an effect on the player base.  Many many more players have champ 4*s, and mmr has many more viable targets in the 4* champ range.  So im40 + a unboosted 4* champ is now very risky at 700+ in pvp, and even im40 + a good boosted 4* champ is getting a bit dangerous in the 750-900 range.

I find that i can hit 900 without shielding more reliably now using 2x boosted 4* champs, even if 1 of the champs isn't especially good.

And while im40 still crushes pve, there are lots of other great pve crutches out there too (if for black, switch for purple, strange etc) diluting the pool, so i don't use him all the time.  

All that said, trust demi to roll out a nerf right AFTER the problem has already solved itself (*cough*OML*cough).  

Straycat

They should add more batteries for sure, especially in the 3* tier. Hawkguy is pretty good purple/blue battery, could go well with 3* Starlord's purple ap steal. But its not mutually exclusive, IM40 maybe should be rebalanced.
8 cost recharge, if nothing else
When I need a quick pvp win I might use IM40 with +2 r/y and +2 all ap for a one match recharge. Moving to 8 at least requires 2 matches.
I definitely don't want them to nerf him that bad, but he could lose a lot and still be a viable battery.

DyingLegend

Straycat said:

They should add more batteries for sure, especially in the 3* tier. Hawkguy is pretty good purple/blue battery, could go well with 3* Starlord's purple ap steal. But its not mutually exclusive, IM40 maybe should be rebalanced.
8 cost recharge, if nothing else
When I need a quick pvp win I might use IM40 with +2 r/y and +2 all ap for a one match recharge. Moving to 8 at least requires 2 matches.
I definitely don't want them to nerf him that bad, but he could lose a lot and still be a viable battery.

I'm all for building up other batteries or characters that are underused. I'd love for D3 to put out a usage report to see which characters are used the most and which are never used. A nice chart would be cool.

broll

I don't understand why people are trying to suggest new nerfs to the devs.  "Please sir, could I have some more?"

Punisher5784

Why is the IM40 nerf always a topic?! It makes no sense. IM40 is easy to defeat in PvP and is a target. While in PvE, we all know scaling is unfair and time consuming, so why nerf the one character that helps alleviate some of the scaling problems? Let me gather 2 more yellow AP while 1* Juggs headbutts me and Ares grabs the yellow I need.. no.. it's stupid.. keep it at 6AP.

Enough with the topics of player depression of "oh my poor OML was nerfed so now ____ will be nerfed". With alot of solid new characters (e.g. Carol, Medusa, Blade) and great rebalanced (e.g. Wasp, SL, IW), you have many other choices. Heck I replaced IM40 for SL for alot of teams. Therefore if players are worried about this "10%" then try using other teams.Then if your character does get nerfed at least you've already had a backup team. 

~ Thoughts from a 2+ year player whose experienced a majority of the previous nerfs

MissChinch

IIRC they never gave usage stats relative to other characters for OML...  I saw WAY more im40s than I did OML, so while I think adding the notion in about his usage stats was good supporting evidence to change OML, it wasn't the driver.

I don't think its too tin foil-y to suspect it was OML's correlation to health pack usage that got him the nerf, not usage statistics...  and certainly not for being an overpowered 5*. 

If these kind of reasons were stated plainly "for game economics reasons" or some other reference to needing to keep the game afloat and free for most people it would provide clarity and justification...  seemingly inexplicable changes or logically inconsistent changes are SO MUCH WORSE than just saying it was a change so that the game stays in a state that it can still be provided as free to us.  The truth would cause people to grumble, but it would be so much easier on them in the long run.

DyingLegend

  

 Punisher5784 said:

Why is the IM40 nerf always a topic?! It makes no sense. IM40 is easy to defeat in PvP and is a target. While in PvE, we all know scaling is unfair and time consuming, so why nerf the one character that helps alleviate some of the scaling problems? Let me gather 2 more yellow AP while 1* Juggs headbutts me and Ares grabs the yellow I need.. no.. it's stupid.. keep it at 6AP.

Enough with the topics of player depression of "oh my poor OML was nerfed so now ____ will be nerfed". With alot of solid new characters (e.g. Carol, Medusa, Blade) and great rebalanced (e.g. Wasp, SL, IW), you have many other choices. Heck I replaced IM40 for SL for alot of teams. Therefore if players are worried about this "10%" then try using other teams.Then if your character does get nerfed at least you've already had a backup team. 

~ Thoughts from a 2+ year player whose experienced a majority of the previous nerfs

I've been around for a while and I have seen all the nerfs and buffs. I was just concerned that the reason they nerf OML was overuse. IM40 may be easy to beat and overcome, same went for OML, but it doesn't take away from the fact if they are going to nerf characters for overuse they it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to nerf other overused characters. IM40 just came to mind first. Not calling for nerf, IM40 is balanced for the most part and better than he was. You can't argue the fact the most of the teams you come across in PVP use IM40.You have to target him because most of the time every team has him in it. I'm not saying it's a bad thing and I use him often as well, but from the devs perspective will they deem him overpowered because of his usage in the game instead of his skillset?

Hendross

Why would you think there is a fair usage standard between tiers?  The only thing consistent with their changes, is the inconsistency.