This is not the baral i purchased

Rogan_Josh

wolfger said:

The moral of this story is: don't spend real money on a card, because they will make it OP so people want to buy it, then nerf it once it becomes a widespread problem. 

There have been plenty of cards put up for purchase that have been total garbage. I think it's more lack of insight at the design level than intentional baiting.

OPs tantrum aside, I've always said that if you spend any money on this game (like I have) then you're an idiot (like I am). You do not own or possess any material in this game. You are basically renting a set of digital cards to play with. If they turned the servers off tomorrow how many of us would feel cheated? I would. 

Bottom line is we're giving them money for the server time.

hawkyh1

wolfger said:

The moral of this story is: don't spend real money on a card, because they will make it OP so people want to buy it, then nerf it once it becomes a widespread problem. 

I think it would be fair to add that there are
players who have mentioned how they should
have bought olivia when she was available for
money.

HH

cmassive13

Onion_lotion said:

http://i.imgur.com/NyiE8WQ.jpg here is another endless loop the AI can do I use. Better nerf it too.

First forum post here we go

The combo you listed here is can go on for a while, sure. Three big factors make it much less problematic than Baral
1) Baral is a one-card engine that loops almost every card in your deck. This combo requires drawing at least two or three different cards before you can combo off, so to speak
2) The green deck relies on three non-premium mythics (plus one of the strongest rares in the game). The mythics in this deck make it much less frequent than a Baral deck, which only required $30(?) and a few 3-mana spells
3) This combo typically takes more turns to really flow. Obviously the hydra combo runs on mana acceleration, so you won't be hardcasting any of your mythics. The baral combo would turn on as soon as he hit the board, and typically trigger a 10+ minute loop of spells

For D3H, I think the biggest difference is (1) listed above. They have a history of banning one-card infinite combos (see Seasons Past, Harness the Storm)
the baral adjustment was an improvement for everybody (I think, although I don't have the card). It's more versatile for those who use it, it can't loop almost infinitely so there's less grief from those who play against it
The card was unhealthy for the game, and if you so desperately want access to that just because you rented those specific pixels, then I don't know what else to say ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

PS, I've never spent money on this game for financial reasons, but baral is probably the 5th card I would have bought (Olivia, Ulrich, Gisela, Emrakul). Just putting that out there

Gunmix25

cmassive13 said:

Onion_lotion said:

http://i.imgur.com/NyiE8WQ.jpg here is another endless loop the AI can do I use. Better nerf it too.

First forum post here we go

The combo you listed here is can go on for a while, sure. Three big factors make it much less problematic than Baral
1) Baral is a one-card engine that loops almost every card in your deck. This combo requires drawing at least two or three different cards before you can combo off, so to speak
2) The green deck relies on three non-premium mythics (plus one of the strongest rares in the game). The mythics in this deck make it much less frequent than a Baral deck, which only required $30(?) and a few 3-mana spells
3) This combo typically takes more turns to really flow. Obviously the hydra combo runs on mana acceleration, so you won't be hardcasting any of your mythics. The baral combo would turn on as soon as he hit the board, and typically trigger a 10+ minute loop of spells

For D3H, I think the biggest difference is (1) listed above. They have a history of banning one-card infinite combos (see Seasons Past, Harness the Storm)
the baral adjustment was an improvement for everybody (I think, although I don't have the card). It's more versatile for those who use it, it can't loop almost infinitely so there's less grief from those who play against it
The card was unhealthy for the game, and if you so desperately want access to that just because you rented those specific pixels, then I don't know what else to say ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

PS, I've never spent money on this game for financial reasons, but baral is probably the 5th card I would have bought (Olivia, Ulrich, Gisela, Emrakul). Just putting that out there

Dunno if that was Karma or what but I JUST played against a deck with that ulvenwald build... holy cow. Almost untouchable in its loop and speed to build.  The deck I played against was the most aggressive I had... but lost partially because the gods saw it humorous to not let me draw any of my three creature removal cards.  That said,  I watched in awe of how nuts this build is. O.o 

cmassive13

Gunmix25 said:

cmassive13 said:

Onion_lotion said:

http://i.imgur.com/NyiE8WQ.jpg here is another endless loop the AI can do I use. Better nerf it too.

First forum post here we go

The combo you listed here is can go on for a while, sure. Three big factors make it much less problematic than Baral
1) Baral is a one-card engine that loops almost every card in your deck. This combo requires drawing at least two or three different cards before you can combo off, so to speak
2) The green deck relies on three non-premium mythics (plus one of the strongest rares in the game). The mythics in this deck make it much less frequent than a Baral deck, which only required $30(?) and a few 3-mana spells
3) This combo typically takes more turns to really flow. Obviously the hydra combo runs on mana acceleration, so you won't be hardcasting any of your mythics. The baral combo would turn on as soon as he hit the board, and typically trigger a 10+ minute loop of spells

For D3H, I think the biggest difference is (1) listed above. They have a history of banning one-card infinite combos (see Seasons Past, Harness the Storm)
the baral adjustment was an improvement for everybody (I think, although I don't have the card). It's more versatile for those who use it, it can't loop almost infinitely so there's less grief from those who play against it
The card was unhealthy for the game, and if you so desperately want access to that just because you rented those specific pixels, then I don't know what else to say ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

PS, I've never spent money on this game for financial reasons, but baral is probably the 5th card I would have bought (Olivia, Ulrich, Gisela, Emrakul). Just putting that out there

Dunno if that was Karma or what but I JUST played against a deck with that ulvenwald build... holy cow. Almost untouchable in its loop and speed to build.  The deck I played against was the most aggressive I had... but lost partially because the gods saw it humorous to not let me draw any of my three creature removal cards.  That said,  I watched in awe of how nuts this build is. O.o 

There are gonna be really strong decks. Olivia, Pig, Deploy, Ulvenwald Hydra are all incredibly powerful cards. Baral 1-card combo was unhealthy for the game though

also, this update came right on the heels of WOTC banning a 2-card infinite combo in standard. Literally the night before

Matthew

cmassive13 said:

Onion_lotion said:

http://i.imgur.com/NyiE8WQ.jpg here is another endless loop the AI can do I use. Better nerf it too.

First forum post here we go

The combo you listed here is can go on for a while, sure. Three big factors make it much less problematic than Baral
1) Baral is a one-card engine that loops almost every card in your deck. This combo requires drawing at least two or three different cards before you can combo off, so to speak
2) The green deck relies on three non-premium mythics (plus one of the strongest rares in the game). The mythics in this deck make it much less frequent than a Baral deck, which only required $30(?) and a few 3-mana spells
3) This combo typically takes more turns to really flow. Obviously the hydra combo runs on mana acceleration, so you won't be hardcasting any of your mythics. The baral combo would turn on as soon as he hit the board, and typically trigger a 10+ minute loop of spells

For D3H, I think the biggest difference is (1) listed above. They have a history of banning one-card infinite combos (see Seasons Past, Harness the Storm)
the baral adjustment was an improvement for everybody (I think, although I don't have the card). It's more versatile for those who use it, it can't loop almost infinitely so there's less grief from those who play against it
The card was unhealthy for the game, and if you so desperately want access to that just because you rented those specific pixels, then I don't know what else to say ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

PS, I've never spent money on this game for financial reasons, but baral is probably the 5th card I would have bought (Olivia, Ulrich, Gisela, Emrakul). Just putting that out there

Heck of an introductory post! I was going to say pretty much exactly what you've already said here, but you beat me to it!

I will say though that if you bought Baral and expected him to remain in that form forever, you are either ignorant, naive, selfish, or some combination of the three. A massive swathe of the player base has been poking the development team on a daily basis since this card was first revealed, because we knew how much it would warp the gameplay. Someone who has nearly 50 posts to the forums cannot have been blind to that fact. That indicates that a player is at least marginally engaged with the community. It would be different if they had no involvement in the various social focal points for this game.

Additionally, I think it takes a definite lack of creativity to believe that the old version of Baral was 'better' than this new one. Relying on a single card to power your deck is narrow-minded. Every card in your deck should be useful as soon as you draw it. In decks built around the old Baral, you had to hope and pray that you could draw him out quickly enough.

cmassive13

Matthew said:

cmassive13 said:

Onion_lotion said:

http://i.imgur.com/NyiE8WQ.jpg here is another endless loop the AI can do I use. Better nerf it too.

First forum post here we go

The combo you listed here is can go on for a while, sure. Three big factors make it much less problematic than Baral
1) Baral is a one-card engine that loops almost every card in your deck. This combo requires drawing at least two or three different cards before you can combo off, so to speak
2) The green deck relies on three non-premium mythics (plus one of the strongest rares in the game). The mythics in this deck make it much less frequent than a Baral deck, which only required $30(?) and a few 3-mana spells
3) This combo typically takes more turns to really flow. Obviously the hydra combo runs on mana acceleration, so you won't be hardcasting any of your mythics. The baral combo would turn on as soon as he hit the board, and typically trigger a 10+ minute loop of spells

For D3H, I think the biggest difference is (1) listed above. They have a history of banning one-card infinite combos (see Seasons Past, Harness the Storm)
the baral adjustment was an improvement for everybody (I think, although I don't have the card). It's more versatile for those who use it, it can't loop almost infinitely so there's less grief from those who play against it
The card was unhealthy for the game, and if you so desperately want access to that just because you rented those specific pixels, then I don't know what else to say ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

PS, I've never spent money on this game for financial reasons, but baral is probably the 5th card I would have bought (Olivia, Ulrich, Gisela, Emrakul). Just putting that out there

Heck of an introductory post! I was going to say pretty much exactly what you've already said here, but you beat me to it!

I will say though that if you bought Baral and expected him to remain in that form forever, you are either ignorant, naive, selfish, or some combination of the three. A massive swathe of the player base has been poking the development team on a daily basis since this card was first revealed, because we knew how much it would warp the gameplay. Someone who has nearly 50 posts to the forums cannot have been blind to that fact. That indicates that a player is at least marginally engaged with the community. It would be different if they had no involvement in the various social focal points for this game.

Additionally, I think it takes a definite lack of creativity to believe that the old version of Baral was 'better' than this new one. Relying on a single card to power your deck is narrow-minded. Every card in your deck should be useful as soon as you draw it. In decks built around the old Baral, you had to hope and pray that you could draw him out quickly enough.

Onion_Lotion may have just been playing devil's advocate. OP just joined yesterday, presumably to whine about not having access to metagame-warping cards

morgue427

i konw i rented the cards so to speak but from the amount i play i thought it was worth i. i Do realize it is money gone and can live with that whining about it does not change the fact, no does it change anything i bought baral knowing he would not stay that way forever and trusted that they would make him into a usable card. yes it was fun to get niblis of frost up to 450 for a single hit, boring as sin but fun just for the giggles of it. i am sorry some of you feel cheated but i dont and if you ponder the combinations that are now possible you most likely wont either. if you do play aagainst him i am sure some will be happy to show you what he can do i plan to. 

morgue427

sorry for the vent there but you are right mathew yes he worked but only not untill you got him on the board, which in the event could be a dice toss drawing him in time before you died because those little 3 mana spell while a bit helpful didnt make up a decent survivable deck

Gunmix25

morgue427 : i am sorry some of you feel cheated but i dont and if you ponder the combinations that are now possible you most likely wont either. 

This! Well said good sir!

EDHdad

Any company with as much business acumen as a hamster would simply allow a dissatisfied customer to exchange their Baral for a different card.  Possibly limited to a card which had been offered for sale in the past.  Don't like the new Baral?  Fine.  Here's your Olivia / Ulrich / Emrakul / Gisela or whatever.  Or maybe they keep it.  But if so, they keep it because it was their choice to keep it.  Now the customer is satisfied and doesn't think your company is Satan.

I'm not speaking for myself, here.  I bought Baral knowing full well that it was broken as heck and would likely be seriously modified 2 weeks after purchase.  But I also knew that people like OP would be salty and feel cheated.  I hope that everyone enjoyed the 5 minutes of server time that OP's Baral purchase gave to us, because they're unlikely to ever purchase anything from this company ever again.  And for everyone like the OP who is engaged with this community enough to visit this board and interact with its members, there are hundreds of others who will simply delete the app from their device and move on to other things.

It doesn't have to be this way, gosh darn it.  Every transaction in this game doesn't have to be some sort of Faustian bargain.   If they'd spend more time trying to figure out how to get thousands of people to happily spend $5, they wouldn't have to spend so much time trying to trick 5 people into spending thousands.  Just make a fun game, and sell people things they want to buy at a price they want to pay.  And if you change the specific item they purchased with their money, then give them the option of swapping it out for another item of similar value.

wink

I don't have any sympathy for the OP, but in all fairness, this was a reduction in power. The old Baral was game-breakingly powerful--it allowed 1-turn wins on the turn it was played. The new Baral is merely super-powerful. That is still a reduction in power.

That said, the new Baral is much better for the game as a whole, much more interesting to play and to play against, allows much more creativity in deckbuilding, and I will be playing it much more often as it no longer feels like a "cheat" that makes the game feel un-fun to me.

cmassive13

Just because it takes longer to win doesn't make it less powerful. Feels more like a lateral change. Regardless of any perceived power slip (opposite of creep?) the original baral was intensely unhealthy for the game

Gunmix25

EDHdad said:

Any company with as much business acumen as a hamster would simply allow a dissatisfied customer to exchange their Baral for a different card.  Possibly limited to a card which had been offered for sale in the past.  Don't like the new Baral?  Fine.  Here's your Olivia / Ulrich / Emrakul / Gisela or whatever. 

WotC gets hit up for this whenever a card is banned. And then they laughed and laughed laughed.  If you understood business and the matter of transaction regarding games,  you would know that this is almost never the case.  AD&D rpg returning to the original D&D title and ditched all the rules and recreated new ones.... refund? Exchange? Nope. WotC banning cards, refund? Exchange? Nope. Wizkids changed the stats on powerful rare Mage knight and Mech Warrior figures thus making the old ones illegal to play. Refund? Exchange? Nope. These guys weren't hamsters by any means but that's how business is run. You might lose a few players but they gain some as well,  all part of the profit/loss aspect of any business.  

Tigerpawz

Something I feel like everyone should keep in mind is the fact Baral beat everything PvE as well. If D3 had to create events where the bosses could deal with Baral looping at any given turn the rest of the community would be hosed.

He is a card that broke the game in every mode against all opponents.

morgue427

reduction in power? he is a huge curious homunculous  each round he add 4 mana to every spell you have even the awaken ones so that scatter to the wind you had 2 of? one gets played next one wait and hmm he brings freinds with him to help you, played him in the event before it got pulled down and had no problem with him except hmm well i guess i dont need displacement wave as a reset lol

morgue427

i did use bral for beating some of the zendikar missions but oblivion sower still killed my a lot until i got him out first round, before that forget it

Whammaster

Makes me laugh I get targeted for my comment when this whole thread is full of it. Thanks d3

Rogan_Josh

Gunmix25 said:

 AD&D rpg returning to the original D&D title and ditched all the rules and recreated new ones.... refund? Exchange? Nope. WotC banning cards, refund? Exchange? Nope. Wizkids changed the stats on powerful rare Mage knight and Mech Warrior figures thus making the old ones illegal to play. Refund? Exchange? Nope. 

But you can still use all these previous products with friends. You have a choice in which rules you use. 

EDHdad said:

It doesn't have to be this way, gosh darn it.  Every transaction in this game doesn't have to be some sort of Faustian bargain.  

Exactly, there are numerous examples of fair business practices in digital card games. Booster packs are inherently unfair but a lot of fun and generate perceived value in cards. Even the IRL magic has a secondary market making it a fairer situation.

This game desperately needs some form of balancing in the way we gain cards. Either a Heathstone type situation where the extra cards are recycled into card buying currency, or simply a way of spending game currency for the cards you need, even if it's just cards from previous sets. Personally I think a Heathstone type system will greatly benefit everyone from all levels of play, it would also promote people willing to pay to buy more boosters, knowing the returns from such purchases aren't a total waste.

Gunmix25

Rogan Josh said:

Gunmix25 said:

 AD&D rpg returning to the original D&D title and ditched all the rules and recreated new ones.... refund? Exchange? Nope. WotC banning cards, refund? Exchange? Nope. Wizkids changed the stats on powerful rare Mage knight and Mech Warrior figures thus making the old ones illegal to play. Refund? Exchange? Nope. 

But you can still use all these previous products with friends. You have a choice in which rules you use. 

Hmm, not really. I used to hold events for all three early millineium and these players were a dedicated and were all friends. They followed updates religiously even if they played for fun. For example. A figure in Mage knight was known to be nigh but impossible to hit and when combined with select towers set upon the table this same figure was able to knock out the other player's figures within minutes. It was so good that virtually every player used that set up even in friendly play. As for D&D.... ever met an RPG group? .... friendly or not they are a fickle bunch. Some will insist the old be used because they can keep their character strong under the rules of the older book. Sure I can bend the rules a bit but it opens a door for others to do the same making it a hard game for the DM to control and run a smooth game for players... thus fun for the players (maybe) but not for the DM. Better off throwing out the books and play a different game imho