Heart of Kiran

khurram

wereotter said:

The power creep from Origins to now is pretty staggering, and it started pretty much as soon as Battle for Zendikar came out. Origins cards (mostly) were about the same power and toughness as their paper counterparts with pretty similarly translated abilities. Yes some were different, but mostly it was on the same page.

As examples: in Battle for Zendikar we get Akoum Firebird going from a 3/3 haste flier to being an 8/8 as well as requiring you to pay mana in addition to a landfall to return it to the battlefield.

Oath of the Gatewatch we have a creature like Tyrant of Valakut who was pushed to the point of being very little like his paper counterpart. He goes from being a 5/4 flier that only deals 3 damage to a creature or player, and that only occurs if you cast another spell the same turn to being a 9/8 flier who does 6 damage to your opponent and each of his/her creatures on entry.

Then in Shadows over Innistrad we have Olivia go from being a 3/3 flier who is unable to buff herself on entry to being an 8/8 who buffs herself to 11/11. Her paper counterpart only buffs by +1/+1 and only grants haste, but her Puzzle Quest version grants +3/+3 haste, flying, and lifelink.

Ulrich similarly went from being a 4/4 on the front that gives a +4/+4 buff to a creature till end of turn to being an 8/8 and giving a permanent +4/+4 buff, then on the back side, paper Ulrich fights a creature, meaning that creature will do damage back to him (so basically it'd be like giving him berserker till end of turn) to just outright dealing his power in damage. So another power ramp.

The Heart of Kiran is a massive power ramp from it's original card as it's a flying 4/4 vigilance but now it comes out as a 16/16 and will never be smaller than a 12/12 even if the servos are destroyed. So yeah, it's a pretty big ramp up.

Also from a lore perspective, this should absolutely not be called baralship as this is the flagship of the Renegades headed by Pia Nalaar. It actively opposes Baral and the Consulate. Boomship would more appropriately be Baralship.

Err... Why are we comparing stats of cards with their paper counterparts.... The health of opponents is often 5 times that of in paper magic so i dont know why its so astonishing when a 3/3 becomes an 8/8 in pq.

wereotter

khurram said:

wereotter said:

The power creep from Origins to now is pretty staggering, and it started pretty much as soon as Battle for Zendikar came out. Origins cards (mostly) were about the same power and toughness as their paper counterparts with pretty similarly translated abilities. Yes some were different, but mostly it was on the same page.

As examples: in Battle for Zendikar we get Akoum Firebird going from a 3/3 haste flier to being an 8/8 as well as requiring you to pay mana in addition to a landfall to return it to the battlefield.

Oath of the Gatewatch we have a creature like Tyrant of Valakut who was pushed to the point of being very little like his paper counterpart. He goes from being a 5/4 flier that only deals 3 damage to a creature or player, and that only occurs if you cast another spell the same turn to being a 9/8 flier who does 6 damage to your opponent and each of his/her creatures on entry.

Then in Shadows over Innistrad we have Olivia go from being a 3/3 flier who is unable to buff herself on entry to being an 8/8 who buffs herself to 11/11. Her paper counterpart only buffs by +1/+1 and only grants haste, but her Puzzle Quest version grants +3/+3 haste, flying, and lifelink.

Ulrich similarly went from being a 4/4 on the front that gives a +4/+4 buff to a creature till end of turn to being an 8/8 and giving a permanent +4/+4 buff, then on the back side, paper Ulrich fights a creature, meaning that creature will do damage back to him (so basically it'd be like giving him berserker till end of turn) to just outright dealing his power in damage. So another power ramp.

The Heart of Kiran is a massive power ramp from it's original card as it's a flying 4/4 vigilance but now it comes out as a 16/16 and will never be smaller than a 12/12 even if the servos are destroyed. So yeah, it's a pretty big ramp up.

Also from a lore perspective, this should absolutely not be called baralship as this is the flagship of the Renegades headed by Pia Nalaar. It actively opposes Baral and the Consulate. Boomship would more appropriately be Baralship.

Err... Why are we comparing stats of cards with their paper counterparts.... The health of opponents is often 5 times that of in paper magic so i dont know why its so astonishing when a 3/3 becomes an 8/8 in pq.

The comparison is valid because of two reasons:

First, Origins was the first set out and laid the groundwork of how it would function and there, creatures were sized the same as their paper counterparts. 

Second, life totals are a part of the power creep, not the reason for it. At level 60 Origins Chandra has 82 life. Now nearly every planeswalker at level 60 has between 100-120 life.

Additionally life totals are capped, unlike in paper magic, so it makes sense that creatures would be the same size while life totals are allowed to be higher.

THEMAGICkMAN

wereotter said:

khurram said:

wereotter said:

The power creep from Origins to now is pretty staggering, and it started pretty much as soon as Battle for Zendikar came out. Origins cards (mostly) were about the same power and toughness as their paper counterparts with pretty similarly translated abilities. Yes some were different, but mostly it was on the same page.

As examples: in Battle for Zendikar we get Akoum Firebird going from a 3/3 haste flier to being an 8/8 as well as requiring you to pay mana in addition to a landfall to return it to the battlefield.

Oath of the Gatewatch we have a creature like Tyrant of Valakut who was pushed to the point of being very little like his paper counterpart. He goes from being a 5/4 flier that only deals 3 damage to a creature or player, and that only occurs if you cast another spell the same turn to being a 9/8 flier who does 6 damage to your opponent and each of his/her creatures on entry.

Then in Shadows over Innistrad we have Olivia go from being a 3/3 flier who is unable to buff herself on entry to being an 8/8 who buffs herself to 11/11. Her paper counterpart only buffs by +1/+1 and only grants haste, but her Puzzle Quest version grants +3/+3 haste, flying, and lifelink.

Ulrich similarly went from being a 4/4 on the front that gives a +4/+4 buff to a creature till end of turn to being an 8/8 and giving a permanent +4/+4 buff, then on the back side, paper Ulrich fights a creature, meaning that creature will do damage back to him (so basically it'd be like giving him berserker till end of turn) to just outright dealing his power in damage. So another power ramp.

The Heart of Kiran is a massive power ramp from it's original card as it's a flying 4/4 vigilance but now it comes out as a 16/16 and will never be smaller than a 12/12 even if the servos are destroyed. So yeah, it's a pretty big ramp up.

Also from a lore perspective, this should absolutely not be called baralship as this is the flagship of the Renegades headed by Pia Nalaar. It actively opposes Baral and the Consulate. Boomship would more appropriately be Baralship.

Err... Why are we comparing stats of cards with their paper counterparts.... The health of opponents is often 5 times that of in paper magic so i dont know why its so astonishing when a 3/3 becomes an 8/8 in pq.

The comparison is valid because of two reasons:

First, Origins was the first set out and laid the groundwork of how it would function and there, creatures were sized the same as their paper counterparts. 

Second, life totals are a part of the power creep, not the reason for it. At level 60 Origins Chandra has 82 life. Now nearly every planeswalker at level 60 has between 100-120 life.

Additionally life totals are capped, unlike in paper magic, so it makes sense that creatures would be the same size while life totals are allowed to be higher.

Honestly if every card were simply a copy of its paper counterpart I would've grown bored of this game long ago. the canges of some cards are what make them interesting for me - early on hangarback walker was my favourite card because it played quite differently to its paper version.

morgue427

and be bosses are so much higher as to be ridiculous also they creeped a lot but dont hear people complaining about them, perhaps because the cards creeped with them?

madwren

morgue427 said:

and be bosses are so much higher as to be ridiculous also they creeped a lot but dont hear people complaining about them, perhaps because the cards creeped with them?

You must have missed the first week of Revolt Against the Consulate.

EDHdad

Creatures have gotten more powerful, but removal has also gotten more powerful.  During Origins, the only unconditional kill spell was Unholy Hunger, which was a rare.  Except in the very early days, when a blue bounce spell would have killed a creature if the opponent's hand was full.

Now you can kill up to 3 creatures for 1 mana (Eliminate the Competition), all colors except green can "destroy target creature" for no more than 9 mana, and in a pinch, you can use Scour from Existence, a common, for 12.

Unless I'm cheating it into play, I'm not sure I'd want to put Heart of Kiran into a deck, and even if I am cheating creatures into play, I'm not sure Heart of Kiran is my go-to choice.

wereotter

THEMAGICkMAN said:

wereotter said:

khurram said:

wereotter said:

The power creep from Origins to now is pretty staggering, and it started pretty much as soon as Battle for Zendikar came out. Origins cards (mostly) were about the same power and toughness as their paper counterparts with pretty similarly translated abilities. Yes some were different, but mostly it was on the same page.

As examples: in Battle for Zendikar we get Akoum Firebird going from a 3/3 haste flier to being an 8/8 as well as requiring you to pay mana in addition to a landfall to return it to the battlefield.

Oath of the Gatewatch we have a creature like Tyrant of Valakut who was pushed to the point of being very little like his paper counterpart. He goes from being a 5/4 flier that only deals 3 damage to a creature or player, and that only occurs if you cast another spell the same turn to being a 9/8 flier who does 6 damage to your opponent and each of his/her creatures on entry.

Then in Shadows over Innistrad we have Olivia go from being a 3/3 flier who is unable to buff herself on entry to being an 8/8 who buffs herself to 11/11. Her paper counterpart only buffs by +1/+1 and only grants haste, but her Puzzle Quest version grants +3/+3 haste, flying, and lifelink.

Ulrich similarly went from being a 4/4 on the front that gives a +4/+4 buff to a creature till end of turn to being an 8/8 and giving a permanent +4/+4 buff, then on the back side, paper Ulrich fights a creature, meaning that creature will do damage back to him (so basically it'd be like giving him berserker till end of turn) to just outright dealing his power in damage. So another power ramp.

The Heart of Kiran is a massive power ramp from it's original card as it's a flying 4/4 vigilance but now it comes out as a 16/16 and will never be smaller than a 12/12 even if the servos are destroyed. So yeah, it's a pretty big ramp up.

Also from a lore perspective, this should absolutely not be called baralship as this is the flagship of the Renegades headed by Pia Nalaar. It actively opposes Baral and the Consulate. Boomship would more appropriately be Baralship.

Err... Why are we comparing stats of cards with their paper counterparts.... The health of opponents is often 5 times that of in paper magic so i dont know why its so astonishing when a 3/3 becomes an 8/8 in pq.

The comparison is valid because of two reasons:

First, Origins was the first set out and laid the groundwork of how it would function and there, creatures were sized the same as their paper counterparts. 

Second, life totals are a part of the power creep, not the reason for it. At level 60 Origins Chandra has 82 life. Now nearly every planeswalker at level 60 has between 100-120 life.

Additionally life totals are capped, unlike in paper magic, so it makes sense that creatures would be the same size while life totals are allowed to be higher.

Honestly if every card were simply a copy of its paper counterpart I would've grown bored of this game long ago. the canges of some cards are what make them interesting for me - early on hangarback walker was my favourite card because it played quite differently to its paper version.

This doesn't have to be an exact replica of the paper game. The mere fact that it's a match three requires that things change to fit. However it's also worth remembering that Wizards had had 20 years of experience managing power ramping, balance between sets, and balance between colors. So this game would be wise not to see a 4/4 creature card from the paper game and turn it into a 16/16

khurram

Level 60 gideon has and had 104 life total. Falls under the 100-120 limit. Sorin was released later and has 82 life total.

THEMAGICkMAN

-snipped previous quotes for space-

THEMAGICkMAN Said:
 Honestly if every card were simply a copy of its paper counterpart I would've grown bored of this game long ago. the canges of some cards are what make them interesting for me - early on hangarback walker was my favourite card because it played quite differently to its paper version.

wereotter said:
 This doesn't have to be an exact replica of the paper game. The mere fact that it's a match three requires that things change to fit. However it's also worth remembering that Wizards had had 20 years of experience managing power ramping, balance between sets, and balance between colors. So this game would be wise not to see a 4/4 creature card from the paper game and turn it into a 16/16

I dunno, I think its fine if it fits the card and isn't OP as tinykitty, Heart is fine as it is IMO, not OP, not useless. Certainly, it could have been designed better (perhaps something similar to this - http://forums.d3go.com/discussion/59043/my-aether-revolt-cards-pt-1#latest) , but its fine as it is.

babar3355

I would love to have this monster, considering they are allegedly fixing the awful fabricate animations.  Unfortunately, Not.Another.Dime.

Infested

Is this the last card to be released as a purchase? When do we see them released into the packs?

wereotter

Infested said:

Is this the last card to be released as a purchase? When do we see them released into the packs?

Yes, and I would anticipate the exclusive cards going into packs at the release of Amonket. They had a surprisingly fast turn around from Aether Revolt's paper release to Puzzle Quest, and the paper launch of Amonkhet is on the 28th of this month. So my guess is currently around May 11th, but possibly later.