Vaulting.

sinnerjfl

6 weeks later...   We had vintage heroics (lol) and this Heroes for Hire store now. Both were/are pretty terrible and not a proper solution to vaulting 75% of the 4* tier. As pretty much the whole forum was in agreement with a solution in the 50 page thread, why not implement that idea.

12 latest 4*'s in Latest Legendary token, the rest of the 4*'s in the Classic Legendary token.

Just
Do
It.

Stop trying these tinnykitty cashgrab solutions and just implement that already. It just makes the most sense. You're really showing bad faith by not simply implementing this already and it makes Demiurge/D3 look greedy.

Or are you simply following your "This too shall pass" mantra...     *sigh*

(bonus heroes are meaningless)

*Removed profanity - Ducky

Ayasugi-san

sinnerjfl said:

Or are you simply following your "This too shall pass" mantra...     *sigh*

I think they are. So maybe it's time for us to pass. And to tell potential new players to not even start.

Punisher5784

The sad part is you would think they would want us to spend the extra 5CP for the newer 12 4*s..

whycantwesyncpc

You want them to give a **** about the game and the players.  At this point that sounds like a lot to ask for.  Too many apparently keeping playing no matter what

killerkoala

they should just make a new legendary "vintage".   non latest 5* and 4*.  and no  3*/2* in them

Kevin61

In my opinion, vaulting really sucks!!!  All of the earlier 4*'s I now have champed are basically going to be in limbo.  Not getting any more covers to level them up.  I, for one, don't mind having all 4*'s available at the same time.  95% of the time, I get a useable cover, whether it is for a newer character or adding a champ level.  If it is for a newer character that I already have maxxed in that color, most of the time, I am able to get them champed before the cover expires.  Now, I feel that there just isn't any excitement in opening LT's or cashing in CP because I know that it will be for a character that maybe I don't want to champ right now.  They did this with 3*'s and for the longest time, I could not get a 3* Black Panther but once they decided to do away with the 3* vault, I was able to get him.  I still need two covers for Moon Knight ( the new store doesn't help me because I already have 5 black covers).  This needs to be fixed, but I am not holding my breath.

Piro_plock

Punisher5784 said:

The sad part is you would think they would want us to spend the extra 5CP for the newer 12 4*s..

That extra 5CP for less of a dilution amongst 5* and a possibility of swapping unusable 5* covers? Worth it, IMO. Even if all the old 4* were in classics, I would probably still keep pulling latest legends just because of 5* perks.

MaxxPowerz

My biggest gripe is the effect on champing levels as well; they've basically become an afterthought. Why introduce this new feature if you were just going to make it a non factor for so many characters?

I have very little urge to level my characters past 250. The idea was to champ as many characters as possible so as not to waste covers, but why waste 100k iso when I'm not even gonna make a dent in their champ levels? 

I like the idea of relegating newer characters to the 25cp token because it makes them more exclusive, and those of us who have worked hard to obtain these covers through competitive play will be rewarded. Why waste CP on shields when I can easily pull all of those covers in a matter of months? 

Partyof5

Kevin61 said:

In my opinion, vaulting really sucks!!!  All of the earlier 4*'s I now have champed are basically going to be in limbo.  Not getting any more covers to level them up. 

It's even worse for those of us who don't have 4*s maxed covered yet.  I have dozens of 4*s, none with more than 7 covers.  Now most of those will sit on my roster unusable for many more months, I looked forward to leveling up 4*s so I'd have new characters to use.  Now I'm perpetually stuck in 3* land.       

shobi6669

sinnerjfl said:

12 latest 4*'s in Latest Legendary token, the rest of the 4*'s in the Classic Legendary token.

Just
Do
It.

This!  It is meaningful that if they did do this, it would not help me with my accumulated Latest tokens, but I would pull my close to 1000 CP on classics once I had some ISO saved.

Even if they refuse to do this *forever* I would really appreciate some amnesty period where they did do it, so people in my position could use all those accumulated CP how they want.  The announcement to implementation of the vaulting was too quick and when I got home from work it was announced and already in game.  There was no time to react for many of us.  Had I been given that time I would have pulled all my latest and used all but 120 CP.  I really hope they do this, even if only for a limited time (but announced in advance) so those of us that prefer to work on vaulted heroes can do so.

Fightmastermpq

They aren't implementing it because it's not a good solution.  It restores all the dilution problems that vaulting got rid of, and ISO needs would skyrocket again.  No thanks.

whycantwesyncpc

Fightmastermpq said:

They aren't implementing it because it's not a good solution.  It restores all the dilution problems that vaulting got rid of, and ISO needs would skyrocket again.  No thanks.

It would be a around a billion times better than the mess we have now.  Some of us just want the game to be worth playing again.

Daredevil217

Fightmastermpq said:

They aren't implementing it because it's not a good solution.  It restores all the dilution problems that vaulting got rid of, and ISO needs would skyrocket again.  No thanks.

This is absolutely wrong.  Classic Legends 5* tier is already diluted, first of all.  Second of all, you would still have every token except the Classic to pull from if you want concentrated pulls.  Changing a single token balances the game and gives options for people who prefer to pull from a diluted pool (both the 4's and 5's are diluted); and those who view dilution as a problem impacting their progress have... literally any other token to pull from (the most obvious of which is Latest Legends).

Saying changing ONE token would restore ALL dilution problems is hyperbole at its finest.

Jaedenkaal

It's weird how in 6 weeks we haven't managed to have this specific, fascinating discussion with totally new viewpoints that no one has stated before or beaten to death in a 60+ page thread somewhere else...

killerkoala

Jaedenkaal said:

It's weird how in 6 weeks we haven't managed to have this specific, fascinating discussion with totally new viewpoints that no one has stated before or beaten to death in a 60+ page thread somewhere else...

and the only things the devs have done is give us Vintage Heroics and Heroes for Hire (I think this is a replacement for Weekly 4* cover store).  so really 1 solution. i still think it's best thing for this game is to make colorless covers (helps with diluting/ waste) then:

Latest Legendary (latest 3 (5*) and 12 (4*))
Classic Legenday (all other (5*) but latest 3 (5*) and latest 12 (4*))
Vintage Legendary (all others but, latest 3 (5*) and 12 (4*))

carrion_pigeons

We really need someone with some authority to just say what is and isn't on the table.  I don't understand why that, of all things, can't happen.  The forums have a tendency to get stuck on certain ideas which the devs then never, ever implement, so why can't a dev just pop in and say, "hey guys, we get that you're really into the idea of CL tokens being reverted to the old model, but we aren't willing to do that right now because of X."  Would save everyone a whole bunch of trouble and would allow the forums to give more useful feedback.

I assume the problem is that they're trying to force a long-term change to the metagame so that future 4*s are meaningful rewards for players, and making old powerhouses less available is their preferred route to making it happen.  But why can't they just say that?  Sure, there's be lots of whining about it, but there's already lots of whining about it.  At least if they just came in and said it, people could move on to a new topic.

sinnerjfl

Fightmastermpq said:

They aren't implementing it because it's not a good solution.  It restores all the dilution problems that vaulting got rid of, and ISO needs would skyrocket again.  No thanks.

I guess its better to constantly pull characters I don't care in the slightest about (Riri, Mordo, Gwenpool etc.) and that I'll just keep trashing covers... yeah that is super fun.

At least with dilution I had my chance at a 5* and a champion reward. Now its often a 1000 iso for 20 CP... woo, exciting.

It devalues CP totally up to a point and speaking of ISO costs, champing the latest 12 before they leave the tokens is pretty much worse in every way than pulling a 14th token, saving up and champing that specific character.

And the champion system is practically dead for 4*'s right now... you know, that feature they made a huge deal about a year ago.

shobi6669

Fightmastermpq said:

They aren't implementing it because it's not a good solution.  It restores all the dilution problems that vaulting got rid of, and ISO needs would skyrocket again.  No thanks.

This just does not even make sense.  Maybe "iso needs skyrocketing" would be true for some users, but certainly that would not be true across the board.  Giving me the option to pull from either the old fully diluted classic pool or a new one with only the non-chosen-12 4*s would not increase my ISO needs.  In fact it would probably help alleviate some of them as I would be getting a bunch of champ rewards that are already at or nearing the more juicy/generous champ rewards.  It is really the only way for those of us who champed most or all of the vaulted 4s to get back the iso investment we already laid out.  I do not see them offering to deconstruct the champs who will no longer ever pay off so we can invest the iso in the chosen-12 they want us to invest in.  I just do not agree that offering this option would cause any harm, and it seems to be more requested than a bunch of the changes and choices (3600 HP for Rand) that we have been offered.

Fightmastermpq

Daredevil217 said:

Fightmastermpq said:

They aren't implementing it because it's not a good solution.  It restores all the dilution problems that vaulting got rid of, and ISO needs would skyrocket again.  No thanks.

This is absolutely wrong.  Classic Legends 5* tier is already diluted, first of all.  Second of all, you would still have every token except the Classic to pull from if you want concentrated pulls.  Changing a single token balances the game and gives options for people who prefer to pull from a diluted pool (both the 4's and 5's are diluted); and those who view dilution as a problem impacting their progress have... literally any other token to pull from (the most obvious of which is Latest Legends).

Saying changing ONE token would restore ALL dilution problems is hyperbole at its finest.

It's not hyperbole, it's a fact.  Vaulting solved the dilution problem by removing all but 12 characters from all tokens.  If you put those characters back into classic tokens the dilution problem returns.

The problem is that it ties dilution in the 4* tier to progression in the 5* tier.  If you want champ levels on your 5* classics you have to accept a massive 4* dilution problem to get them.  If you want latest 5*s you don't get any older 4*s.  It's not a good solution.

Fightmastermpq

shobi6669 said:

Fightmastermpq said:

They aren't implementing it because it's not a good solution.  It restores all the dilution problems that vaulting got rid of, and ISO needs would skyrocket again.  No thanks.

This just does not even make sense.  Maybe "iso needs skyrocketing" would be true for some users, but certainly that would not be true across the board.  Giving me the option to pull from either the old fully diluted classic pool or a new one with only the non-chosen-12 4*s would not increase my ISO needs.  In fact it would probably help alleviate some of them as I would be getting a bunch of champ rewards that are already at or nearing the more juicy/generous champ rewards.  It is really the only way for those of us who champed most or all of the vaulted 4s to get back the iso investment we already laid out.  I do not see them offering to deconstruct the champs who will no longer ever pay off so we can invest the iso in the chosen-12 they want us to invest in.  I just do not agree that offering this option would cause any harm, and it seems to be more requested than a bunch of the changes and choices (3600 HP for Rand) that we have been offered.

It causes harm to anyone that wants to progress on classic 5*s, but doesn't have all the older 4*s champed, sooooooo most players?

Fightmastermpq

sinnerjfl said:

Fightmastermpq said:

They aren't implementing it because it's not a good solution.  It restores all the dilution problems that vaulting got rid of, and ISO needs would skyrocket again.  No thanks.

I guess its better to constantly pull characters I don't care in the slightest about (Riri, Mordo, Gwenpool etc.) and that I'll just keep trashing covers... yeah that is super fun.

At least with dilution I had my chance at a 5* and a champion reward. Now its often a 1000 iso for 20 CP... woo, exciting.

It devalues CP totally up to a point and speaking of ISO costs, champing the latest 12 before they leave the tokens is pretty much worse in every way than pulling a 14th token, saving up and champing that specific character.

And the champion system is practically dead for 4*'s right now... you know, that feature they made a huge deal about a year ago.

And if you put all the old characters into classic tokens you have the same problem.  Now you are constantly pulling covers for 43 older characters that you don't care about instead of the 12 latest characters that you don't care about.  Now you champ 12 characters and every pull is a chance at a 5* and a champion reward, if you move all the old characters to classics you need to champ 43 characters to get that champion reward instead of 1k ISO for 20 CP.  You are STILL pulling a 14th cover, saving up and champing that character either way.  And the champion system is alive and well.  Sure we aren't getting the upper end 320+ champ rewards, but getting a larger percentage of 270-320 rewards helps to make up the difference.