The game we would like to play vs the game THEY want

2

Comments

  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    bbigler said:
    LordXberk said:
    Jamie Madrox said:
    WEBGAS said:
    Alsmir said:
    I feel like the new conception for MPQ is:
    1. Supporting mega-whales  in every possible way.
    2. Regular player is supposed to have constant ISO/HP/cover shortage and either spend $$ to progress or quit.
    I think that with recent nerfs (OML) mega-whales will be very disappointed >:)
    Mega-whales have moved on to Thanos, Black Bolt, Doctor Strange. Sure OML is still great, but he's not alone at the top of the heap anymore.
    Depends on whether you believe the Devs about the "10% usage" reason for the OML nerf or whether you think they're making the change to boost health pack sales.  If it's the 10%, then what happens when Thanos / BB / Dr S become 10% of all victories?  NERF.  If it's HP sales, then they're probably safe, but it makes the Devs liars.  Counter point is that I guess the whales will have the latest and greatest 5* (or 6*) by then, so they won't care. 
    The devs realize that a fun game experience requires variety; that's why they want to reduce the overuse of OML and continue to introduce new characters.  They're trying to prevent the game from getting boring, plus prevent people from progressing too fast, then have nothing new to do and get bored as well.  Bored players usually quit.

    If the devs don't want the same characters being used over and over perhaps they need to make the ability to acquire them at least 10% controlled by the player. I'm pretty sure nobody wants to use 1 character all the time but when that character is all your able to pull and there is no other way to earn them then you force them to use them.


    I am not a "kick the devs" kind of guy but anyone looking at this problem must also accept that the rng acquisition is at least in part responsible for this problem.

  • Slarow
    Slarow Posts: 204 Tile Toppler
    bbigler said:
    This is ridiculous!  OML is still playable!  Quit whining.
    OML is playable, but PVP for a person with only OML/SS champed is *not* playable anymore. MMR treats a player with DS/Thanos/BW champed the exact same as a player with OML/SS champed, when they were not even in the same category *prior* to the nerf.
  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,005 Chairperson of the Boards
    OneLastGambit said:
    bbigler said:
    This is ridiculous!  OML is still playable!  Quit whining.

    So if you buy a car and after 12 months that car suddenly becomes much slower and drains far more fuel than it ever did and you went back to the dealer and they said

    "Quit whining, it still drives!"


    That would be acceptable?


    Apply your logic to literally any other consumer field and you will quickly see why it is a weak argument.

    That analogy is silly.  What MPQ is selling you is a matching game.  The characters are just pieces of the game they aren't the totality of the game.  Balancing them is a part of keeping the game as a whole running.  Buffs and occasional nerfs are part of that balancing.  
  • NewMcG
    NewMcG Posts: 368 Mover and Shaker
    OneLastGambit said:
    bbigler said:
    This is ridiculous!  OML is still playable!  Quit whining.

    So if you buy a car and after 12 months that car suddenly becomes much slower and drains far more fuel than it ever did and you went back to the dealer and they said

    "Quit whining, it still drives!"


    That would be acceptable?


    Apply your logic to literally any other consumer field and you will quickly see why it is a weak argument.

    They made one downward adjustment to one in a stable of 100+ characters. It isn't the same as fuel mileage on your car, as that's the sole driving force behind your car. It's closer to the windows on the car rolling down 10% slower after a year.
  • RtW
    RtW Posts: 11 Just Dropped In
    Why are you defending the devs for this. Do you really feel that they handeled this in the right way. Sure we will adept to this nerf. But now we have to consider who is next. Just played a couple of gamen with 5* Dr. Strange and I think he is way more powerfull that oml was for me. So I expect he's not safe in about a year.
  • NewMcG
    NewMcG Posts: 368 Mover and Shaker
    RtW said:
    Why are you defending the devs for this. Do you really feel that they handeled this in the right way. Sure we will adept to this nerf. But now we have to consider who is next. Just played a couple of gamen with 5* Dr. Strange and I think he is way more powerfull that oml was for me. So I expect he's not safe in about a year.
    So how else should they handle it? Ask for input? This may surprise you, but people on here would almost exclusively say "don't nerf him". Games get balanced all the time. Sometimes it's buffs, sometimes it's nerfs. MMORPG's get them, fighting games get them, and MPQ gets them. Players are usually upset when they happen, but long-term, they tend to be beneficial to the game, even if players can't understand that immediately.

    In the example currently going on, it isn't a raw power thing, it's a balance thing. If OML's heal was overpowered to the point that he's getting utilized in 1 out of every 10 matches, that's a pretty insane ratio in a game of 100+ characters, over a dozen other 5*'s, and several buffed 4*s every week/event. That a guy who otherwise isn't all that exceptional gets utilized (at an EXCEPTIONAL rate) over other characters with more raw power probably points toward that one thing being really out of whack in terms of balance.
  • RtW
    RtW Posts: 11 Just Dropped In
    But there are lots of other things to consider. First he is a character that most of us really like. I have almost all 5*, but only 1 or 2 covers for each. So most are useless for me to use at this moment. Except oml. Dr. Strange and black bolt. Now with his healing nerfed I'm better off to use a 3 star.
  • krak0
    krak0 Posts: 22 Just Dropped In
    The progression game is the problem 1 to 2 star fast 3 star slows downa bit  but you can get covers daily. 4 stars you start to feel the power and excitement it takes time and effort to get  a firm footing into 4 star land. Then you see 5 stars as superstars the thing that will define your team. They are very rate for most and take a stupid long time to get as the pool gets bigger. 
  • amusingfoo1
    amusingfoo1 Posts: 597 Critical Contributor
    Jamie Madrox said:
    WEBGAS said:
    Alsmir said:
    I feel like the new conception for MPQ is:
    1. Supporting mega-whales  in every possible way.
    2. Regular player is supposed to have constant ISO/HP/cover shortage and either spend $$ to progress or quit.
    I think that with recent nerfs (OML) mega-whales will be very disappointed >:)
    Mega-whales have moved on to Thanos, Black Bolt, Doctor Strange. Sure OML is still great, but he's not alone at the top of the heap anymore.
    He hasn't been alone at the top for a long time.  He was, just prior to the nerf, still the best to have as your first 5*, but he was already close to the bottom overall.  Not sure if he's still the best to have as your first, or if Hawkeye might have overtaken him there.  Guess it depends on which 4*s you have as support.
  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,005 Chairperson of the Boards
    amusingfoo1 said:
    He hasn't been alone at the top for a long time.  He was, just prior to the nerf, still the best to have as your first 5*, but he was already close to the bottom overall.  Not sure if he's still the best to have as your first, or if Hawkeye might have overtaken him there.  Guess it depends on which 4*s you have as support.
    He hasn't been top tier for a long time but he definitely was getting overused.  Part of that was because he was so effective with just one yellow cover at soaking up hits and still giving 5* match damage on yellow/black/red.  Since very few of the other 5* have a power that is so useful at just 1 cover he made his way into so many matches.  I'm pretty sure that if Thanos continues to be used the way he has been lately he'll be the next one on the nerf block.  One character shouldn't be so frequently encountered in a game with over 100 characters.  
  • MrCrowley
    MrCrowley Posts: 81 Match Maker
    Nerf whines are bound to happen. Good developers accept that and still nerf stuff because you just cant develop balance in a game solely by boosting. 

    I had the same thing happen with XFW nerf earlier as I just got it and got to use it about 2 months before it was nerfed a lot. Sure I was a bit pissed off at first, but now I can see it was for the best.

  • Pongie
    Pongie Posts: 1,411 Chairperson of the Boards
    El Satanno said:
    firethorne said:
    Although, this does bring up an interesting caveat.  What if you could?  What if every character could be advanced to the 5* level?  This is exactly how Future Fight works, and the diversity in team combination I see there​ is simply amazing.
    I think that would be a real peach of an idea! Not gonna happen, but it sure would be fun. And then they'd have to nerf almost every character because some of those 1* and 2* characters would be crazypants good at higher levels.
    I suggested this awhile ago. Remove the level caps from 1-4* and increase the champion rewards all the way upto 5* max level. Though, this does make every event into balance of power. As a side effect of having every character on even levels, remove all the lazy versions (cap, thor, torch etc)
  • optimus2861
    optimus2861 Posts: 1,233 Chairperson of the Boards
    firethorne said:
    Although, this does bring up an interesting caveat.  What if you could?  What if every character could be advanced to the 5* level?  This is exactly how Future Fight works, and the diversity in team combination I see there​ is simply amazing.

    This is yet another fundamental failure of MPQ.  The devs are on some foolhardy quest for diversity, but then they went and built a game where the vast majority of your roster becomes completely irrelevant instead of growing into the next levels of play.  The game they built is antithetical to their goals.
    MPQ outgrew its design parameters a long, long time ago. The original design was clearly never intended to support a robust 4* tier, and certainly not a 5* tier. They 'bolted on' those tiers to the existing design, which was clearly structured around the 2* and 3* tiers as the primary tiers of play. They've been dealing with the resulting design issues ever since, while simultaneously trying to keep those tiers (especially 5*) as 'cash cow' tiers.

    It's a conflict that will never really be resolved, IMO. MPQ will kind of stagger on in this state until it's finally shut down.
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    El Satanno said:


    Suffice it to say, I'm not convinced by any of the claims presented by the devs regarding the motivation for the change. I'm also not impressed by the apologists around here. This change has upset a lot of people on more levels than just losing an extremely expensive and valuable part of their rosters. Shame.
    Apologies if you don't like me using only part of your quote but I think this had real meaning. I think a very large portion of the player base, at least on this forum, feels this way.

    Being deceived is bad enough. But having people who were also deceived then turning on the rest of us that call the **** what it is? If that doesn't deserve a "Shame" I don't know what qualifies.
  • MrCrowley
    MrCrowley Posts: 81 Match Maker
    I still think it is a kneejerk reaction to sell off characters as they might rework OML later to be better than the nerfed version (I think they did do that to XFW).

    They do need to make a system which allows you to bench characters so that they dont affect your MMR.
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,203 Chairperson of the Boards

    Devs nerf character because of over use; only allows you to earn certain character from packs.

    Pretty soon Medusa, Blade, Capt Marvel etc  will be over used due to vaulting.

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