Character re-works, place your bets!

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  • zodiac339
    zodiac339 Posts: 1,948 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Not sure if they're ready to fix Agent Venom yet, especially around the time he's essential. I don't hate EB Venom as much as others, though I also don't feel like Champing him. Elektra is the one who could use some freshening up of some kind. Just the purple really. Too reliant on enemy strikes, and does nothing useful without them.

    3 stars are where help is really needed. Play the game for long enough, and they are your base of power. Spider Man could obviously use damage, and I'd suggest the web tile spawning being a passive as well. Ragnarok has no need to self damage, let alone team damage, for the same cost as better AOEs. Daredevil's purple too dependent on enemy special tiles, though the same is true of Dr Strange. Doc Oct's green is unimpressive, though I'd hate to see it buffed during Venom Bomb.
    Iron Fist could actually use a nerf. Exquisite Technique is a little too good.
    I like Psylocke's red and black costs to their effects. Perhaps remove the three red strike limitation or add fortification when the limit is reached. Her blue could be better, but other 3 stars should take priority IMO.
  • SummerGlau
    SummerGlau Posts: 1,027 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Too early to rework Mordo or Riri (this would be admitting to failure)
    also too early to nerf Carol

    a Peggy nerf would be well timed....but would not make me happy since I just got her to 5/3/5, level 209)
    all Venoms need work, although I actually like Eddie Brock against enemies that make strike tiles

    Agent Venom's red needs a buff (but that might be early as well)

    3 Star Spidey needs a power that does damage
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Too early to rework Mordo or Riri (this would be admitting to failure)
    worked for wasp. and was very well received.
  • zulux21
    zulux21 Posts: 249 Tile Toppler
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    Given how terrible the timing would be.
    I am going to go with Winter Soldier thus his updated version would come right after his clash lol.
  • SummerGlau
    SummerGlau Posts: 1,027 Chairperson of the Boards
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    TxMoose wrote:
    Too early to rework Mordo or Riri (this would be admitting to failure)
    worked for wasp. and was very well received.

    this would be even earlier
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
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    firethorne wrote:
    4* I'll say, Electra and original Venom are currently in the most need. Riri and Mordo haven't had long enough being mediocre to be reworked yet.

    For 3*, Spiderman needs some form of damage output.

    This. Elektra and Venom are sort of the last holdouts of the bottom-tier 4s, all the rest of have gotten some form of rework recently. The new 12 are a little too "new" to be getting reworks.

    Pretty much concur with all the 3s people mentioned. Psylocke, Spider-Man, Punisher, Ragnarok. Punisher has the most self-defeating powers, the other guys are just underwhelming.

    I must point out to all who have not played this game since 2014 or earlier that Punisher was once considered a top tier 3* because of his cheap offensive abilities and self-synergy (green adds strikes, black hits all plus strike damage and places attack tiles assisted by strikes, and then red finishes them off). Getting a fully covered Punisher in 2014 was a blessing to you and a bane to your enemies in PvP. Now I admit that he's weaker now by comparison, but he was once feared.

    Psylocke had a short period of popularity when she first came out. People thought her red and black were great, so even after her debut events, I would see her in PvP for a short time.

    Before 3* Spiderman's nerf, he was one of the most popular characters in PvP, even though he didn't deal any damage. His defense was amazing!

    Once 3* Thor hit the scene, he became almost everyone's main powerhouse character for PvP battles. For a long time I ran Hood and Thor in PvP always placing in the top 10. When Spiderman's PvP rolled around, that team was invincible! Protection from match damage, constant AP stealing, frequent stuns and board shattering Thunderstrike! No team stood a chance, even those with 4*s.

    I think Rags has been reworked twice, but he's been bad for many years. His original version was usable though.
  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
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    If there's a nerf, my bet is on IM40. Thats the feeling I got after watching the video where they said they might start nerfing.

    I agree with most everyone on who should be buffed, seems like they should do spiderman and Venom or Elektra. The Falcon buff was a fun surprise tho, so it still could be someone unexpected. Not too early to do Ironheart, she had a redesign thread before she was released.

    I think Falcap could be improved, Coulson and Carol make his blue look like a joke. I think Squirrel Girl could get a Spidergwen style fix, where just her yellow gets changed. They like to add fortification, would be a good addition to her green.
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
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    bbigler wrote:
    The funny thing about buffing characters is that you start to lose contrast; meaning that there's less of a power difference between the worst and the best character in a tier. As the movie Incredibles explained it: "because when everyone is super . . . no one is". In a game designed to excite players to spend real money to get the best characters, you need some duds for the good ones to look more desirable. Nevertheless, I will still welcome character buffs.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't that desirable?
    If there's a clear dominant strategy of characters who're way, way better than everything else, the only way to function is to *get* those characters.
    If you have a stable roster of characters who are all viable in different situations, you can swap out depending on the situation.

    It's like in Overwatch. The goal is to have characters that fit certain roles. Winston is fantastic at taking out agile characters and snipers, but he's destroyed by DVA. Is DVA overpowered? Well no, because a good Zarya will cut her to bits. So Zarya's overpowered, right? No, because Roadhog can slow her down...and so on.
  • BatteryHorse
    BatteryHorse Posts: 124 Tile Toppler
    edited April 2017
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    The developers said the reason they wanted to re-balance was because some characters were either over-powered for their tier or were being used way more than the rest, to the point where they were ubiquitous and you would use them in almost any situation.

    IM40 works his way into almost every team at the 3-4* level. I'd hate to lose him, but if there's one character that's overpowered for their tier and overused in the current meta, it's probably IM40, especially now that Scarlet Witch got a mini-nerf.

    I think Peggy, Carol and Star Lord are the only 4's that I routinely use even if they're not boosted, otherwise I usually make teams out of boosted characters for the week.

    In any case, I'm firmly of the belief that buffs are far better than nerfs, and that a rising tide raises all ships, but if I had to pick a character with a usage rate and power level exceeding their peers it would be IM40.
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,622 Chairperson of the Boards
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    IM40 only has one power of real value, though. Granted, his yellow is phenomenal, but once you have a strong enough roster, most teams you're going to use with him have a blue and/or red better than his. Plus, his blue and red drain AP. So, as incredible as his yellow is, he's also got a big handicap already. If they nerf his yellow, he immediately becomes entirely useless. At least SWitch still has that beast stun.

    I guess they could nerf his yellow and lessen the drain from his red and blue. But, yuck.
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,622 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I don't know if Spidey needs a direct DMG output if they let him drop more webbed tiles and maybe have his purpleflag.png drop both protect and strike tiles. That'd probably be enough.

    I don't understand Agent Venom. That might just be me, but I don't get him as usable.

    Peggy should be nerfed. I LOVE her, but she's an insane beast that needs to be stopped.
  • BatteryHorse
    BatteryHorse Posts: 124 Tile Toppler
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    Borstock wrote:
    IM40 only has one power of real value, though. Granted, his yellow is phenomenal, but once you have a strong enough roster, most teams you're going to use with him have a blue and/or red better than his. Plus, his blue and red drain AP. So, as incredible as his yellow is, he's also got a big handicap already. If they nerf his yellow, he immediately becomes entirely useless. At least SWitch still has that beast stun.

    I guess they could nerf his yellow and lessen the drain from his red and blue. But, yuck.

    Respectfully, I'm not sure I agree. IM40 red does 6781 damage for 13 ap, and he feeds his own AP. My IM40 is lvl 210 and he does 7467. The only real caveat to IM40's red is you lose 2 yellow, purple and black AP, so you just have to use those powers first. A pretty minor trade-off for that much power. His blue isn't good. 2 good powers and 1 mediocre one is about right for a 3*. A very good red, maybe the best yellow in the game and a mediocre blue is meta defining.

    Compare IM40 to other red powers at the 3* level and he's doing pretty well. 3Cyc does 4283 damage for 10 red, and his self-synergy is both slightly more expensive (7 yellow AP) and less reliable (depends on TU placement).

    I sound like I'm arguing for an IM40 nerf, and I'm really not, but I think his is one of the best red powers in the 3* tier.
  • StreetPreacher
    StreetPreacher Posts: 54 Match Maker
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    I really dislike the idea of nerfs in a game like this (where you can't reallocate your assets for free). But I'm all for taking away a character's monopoly. Turn Spider-Man and Mystique into good 3* AP batteries, instead of robbing Iron Man of his one stellar ability.
  • PuceMoose
    PuceMoose Posts: 1,445 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I've always liked Psylocke, and I'd love to see her brought back to relevance in the 3* tier. Eliminate the limit on strike tiles on red, make it cost six red by default (and not reduce cost for multiple strikes), and make blue target a chosen basic tile that steals AP of that color. Add 20% more damage/tile value on red and black, and I think she's fine.

    It's probably too soon for Mordo, but ugh - Mordo. Not sure what to do with him. Realistically it's time for Elektra to get a buff & polish.
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,622 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Borstock wrote:
    IM40 only has one power of real value, though. Granted, his yellow is phenomenal, but once you have a strong enough roster, most teams you're going to use with him have a blue and/or red better than his. Plus, his blue and red drain AP. So, as incredible as his yellow is, he's also got a big handicap already. If they nerf his yellow, he immediately becomes entirely useless. At least SWitch still has that beast stun.

    I guess they could nerf his yellow and lessen the drain from his red and blue. But, yuck.

    Respectfully, I'm not sure I agree. IM40 red does 6781 damage for 13 ap, and he feeds his own AP. My IM40 is lvl 210 and he does 7467. The only real caveat to IM40's red is you lose 2 yellow, purple and black AP, so you just have to use those powers first. A pretty minor trade-off for that much power. His blue isn't good. 2 good powers and 1 mediocre one is about right for a 3*. A very good red, maybe the best yellow in the game and a mediocre blue is meta defining.

    Compare IM40 to other red powers at the 3* level and he's doing pretty well. 3Cyc does 4283 damage for 10 red, and his self-synergy is both slightly more expensive (7 yellow AP) and less reliable (depends on TU placement).

    I sound like I'm arguing for an IM40 nerf, and I'm really not, but I think his is one of the best red powers in the 3* tier.

    It's a ton of power, don't get me wrong, but it drains AP. Once you have a rounded out roster, you can pair him with someone who hits as hard or harder with a red power that doesn't drain AP. You could use Starlord, Peggy, Cyke, Thoress, etc.... Lots of heavy hitters with red and you get to keep your other AP. I have his red at 3 and his blue at 5. I rarely use either, but when I do it's usually when I pair him with someone like Teen Jean and another team striker.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,927 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'm breaking my neck trying to cover Peggy before she leaves and while I'm not pulling Peggy or Medusa, Carol is the ONE good character I'm getting covers for. I'm at 12 right now.

    If they were to nerf Carol or Peggy that would SERIOUSLY suck. So it'll probably happen lol.
  • beyonderbub
    beyonderbub Posts: 661 Critical Contributor
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    I'm going to guess 3Strange and 3Thanos might be nerfed bc they allow folks to one shot seed nodes in pvp and lightning rounds and shave a ton of time during PVE initial 4x clear by blowing thru easy nodes and goon nodes
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
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    There are alot of awful characters in the 3 star tier, so these nerf "rumors" must be more substantial then I thought.

    I guess if they won't let us have the characters they'll make us not want them?
  • WEBGAS
    WEBGAS Posts: 474 Mover and Shaker
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    Why some players are asking for nerfs? icon_e_surprised.gificon_e_surprised.gificon_e_surprised.gif

    If some character is too good, just make some other character good enough to create variety, but don't nerf!

    It's insane! icon_e_sad.gif
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I've said it before and I'll say it again.

    Boo nerfs!
    Yay buffs!