MMR Changes?

Unknown

We've always thought that MMR was akin to an ELO, taking into account only PvP fights. Until now, things have mostly added up for me: As I won fights, my opponents leveled up. After tanking for a tournament or two, I started facing weaker opponents. The last tournament used to make a big difference. Do very well in a tournament (often because one of your best heroes is boosted), and then the next tournament is hell on wheels.

Well, I did pretty well in the last PvP tournament. #2 on my bracket, although I couldn't play in the last 4 hours, so I had to just score high and pray. I got that far riding a level 141 Patch and a highly boosted, 9 cover caps. So I should be facing pretty serious opponents. But in this new tournament, my opponents are widely different than in the past. And no, they are not the bots. I am getting fights vs people that just can't be anywhere near my MMR: Their rosters are way too weak. I've had a bunch of fights with people whose highest level, in their entire roster, was 50. And yes, it's the entire roster, not some dude tanking. Someone with a level 70 hulk, 80 OBW and 141 patch should not be getting any fights with real level 50 players.

So is this some fluke in the matrix, or are the backend changes to the way MMR works?

Nemek

There's definitely something different this tourney. I'm finding I get matched up with players in the 100s when I'm 500+, which hasn't been true the last few tournaments.

Arogntbastrd

hibikir wrote:

We've always thought that MMR was akin to an ELO, taking into account only PvP fights. Until now, things have mostly added up for me: As I won fights, my opponents leveled up. After tanking for a tournament or two, I started facing weaker opponents. The last tournament used to make a big difference. Do very well in a tournament (often because one of your best heroes is boosted), and then the next tournament is hell on wheels.

Well, I did pretty well in the last PvP tournament. #2 on my bracket, although I couldn't play in the last 4 hours, so I had to just score high and pray. I got that far riding a level 141 Patch and a highly boosted, 9 cover caps. So I should be facing pretty serious opponents. But in this new tournament, my opponents are widely different than in the past. And no, they are not the bots. I am getting fights vs people that just can't be anywhere near my MMR: Their rosters are way too weak. I've had a bunch of fights with people whose highest level, in their entire roster, was 50. And yes, it's the entire roster, not some dude tanking. Someone with a level 70 hulk, 80 OBW and 141 patch should not be getting any fights with real level 50 players.

So is this some fluke in the matrix, or are the backend changes to the way MMR works?

You prob just haven't caught up to your tanking, unless they have made changes since the last tournament once you pass a certain point threshold you'll shoot up to harder opponents, regardless of mmr

Unknown

The MMR formula changed on the last tourney again.

The curve in scaling upwards is much flatter. From my observations, this has two effects:

1) Maxed 2** teams can reach well into 700s and 800s if left unchecked. (Side note: I don't think I've raged more at this game moreso in the last tournament where with the changes, where I almost missed top 10 at 800, and the majority of bracket leaders were running 85 Wolv + 85 OBW + Spidey at over 900 points. One of them was running a 0/5/0 Spidey. )

2) Guess what... everyone like to tank... who knew? Well, because everyone is tanking and MMR increases much more slowly, players cannot escape the MMR range of other players who have also tanked. So... players tank to avoid 141s, only to run directly into the 141s who have also tanked.... Well Played, Devs!

But this also leads to a very odd situation, where you are just as likely to pull a team of level 20s at 500 as you are to pull a tanked team of 120+. You can duplicate this easily enough by simply skipping around and looking a the giant disparity in rosters that the system pulls up. Not sure if this solvable, or if even this is a problem that needs solving, but it does close the loophole where players tank to try to hide under the radar of the 141s (at least the ones who tank).

Bacon Pants

Nemek wrote:

There's definitely something different this tourney. I'm finding I get matched up with players in the 100s when I'm 500+, which hasn't been true the last few tournaments.

I was a little caught off guard by this as well. I started seeing it at 600+ but it continued up until I stopped playing tonight at 900+. I was also seeing quite a few 2 star teams...lots of Daken, OBW, and Hulk. Again, as I said this earlier today...oh the memories...

Unknown

Same situation here too. Been see a lot two star teams with their measly scores.

Unknown

Yeah the MMR changes have resulted in some really weird pairing... just fought a low level hulk, 50 juggs and lvl 38 storm. Immediately after paired with a 212 hulk, 141 pun, 131 psy. Even if everyone is tanking, there should be a tanking floor so you don't see discrepancies of this magnitude.

Unknown

It's definitely odd. My Hulk is currently 2/1/0, so I wasn't planning on doing much with the Smash Hit event, only to find I'm suddenly at 670 points and hey, free moonstone cover.

I feel like the devs have to walk this very fine line, where three-star teams are rewarded for their work, but one and two star teams can still place highly enough to progress.

I guess this kind of works? It seems pretty random though. We shall see.

Unknown

There definitely seems to be a wider range of opponents now. I suppose this is better than just punishing the guys who didn't tank with the same 5 guys who are 141X3. This makes your PvP rating more related to your roster strength, without making it outright impossible for weak roster strength guys to compete. I guess if you can't fix tanking, the best you can do is at least make tanking not necessary.

Unknown

Ive also noted that my brackets fill in slower, perhaps they are bracketing more carefully now? I also note im not seeing the same person over and over as much at all.

Unknown

I was seeing teams of under 100 when I was in the 400-500 range. I've also encountered some teams with 1*'s on them, which I haven't seen in probably over a month.

KaioShinDE

PvP is the one thing in this game I consider to be working fine, I wished they just kept their hands off it before stuff gets worse. I mean sure it's fundamentally flawed... tanking should never be required, but for the moment it is, and if you know about it the system works. I think **** scaling in PvE and character balance are much much bigger concerns. Leave PvP alone...

Unknown

I missed this topic and posted in the topic about the Update, but something definitely changed; most likely to force us to spend ISO to skip. Another lame move from the devs. Either that, or someone messed up. Again.

Unknown

KaioShinDE wrote:

PvP is the one thing in this game I consider to be working fine, I wished they just kept their hands off it before stuff gets worse. I mean sure it's fundamentally flawed... tanking should never be required, but for the moment it is, and if you know about it the system works. I think tinykitty scaling in PvE and character balance are much much bigger concerns. Leave PvP alone...

yeah, cause i loved having a choice of basically the same 5 opponents in any event... especially when i'd be at 600 points and the highest target i could get had 380. it was awesome. and then being chain farmed by someone 400 points below you, well, that was great too. i sure did love that amazing high MMR pvp. and to think, if i only spent 1-2 hours a day tanking my entire roster in shield training, i could get 85x2 110x1 teams for 4 or 5 fights in a row!

in other words, i'm glad you liked it, but i sure didn't, and to say that it was working fine or it was good enough is a bit of an overstatement. just mho.

Unknown

Part of me is starting to think that unhooking shield training from mmr might be a healthy thing for the game. Tanking has long since moved from a neat trick to a recommended and almost required strategy. With people being able to tweak their own mmr it is no wonder people complain so much about MMR being broken.

It is quite possible we are the ones breaking it.

NotYou13

My 135 Patch, 95 Spidey, 90 Hulk just got dinged for 40 points by a team with mStorm being the only character above level 40. What the hell?

Unknown

But as I was saying in the OP, I have not done any tanking in a while, and I am the one with a team in the 2* to 3* transition, facing people with 1* starters.

IWell, at least I know it's not just something I am dreaming.

Mawtful

Cryptobrancus wrote:

It is quite possible we are the ones breaking it.

We are certainly the ones breaking it.

I'm actually not really phased by this recent tweak. I posted about it briefly in the Hulk event thread, before dropping into GD and seeing this. I just finished mopping the floor with a bunch of teams that had guest Hulk and 2x ~level 45 2* heroes. I was only picking up 10 points at best for each, but I could just about get through with match damage alone, and I don't really fear retaliations since I'm fielding a team of high level 3* heroes.

Most interestingly, I haven't tanked my MMR rating on purpose, so I can only assume I'm "supposed" to be seeing these teams.

over_clocked

NotYou13 wrote:

My 135 Patch, 95 Spidey, 90 Hulk just got dinged for 40 points by a team with mStorm being the only character above level 40. What the hell?

Boosts. Desert node. (Maybe Jungle.) 'Nuff said.

Colognoisseur

This is definitely different than it has been for the last few weeks. I never tank I just take my MMR and roll with it. One of the frustrations about that is I always seem to be paired with the same 10-15 people. I could've made a list and pretty much guaranteed all of them would be on a node at some point in recent PvPs.

Not this time I am getting a wide variety of points levels and opponents, which is how I think it should be. Plus my regulars only two of them have shown up and by now I would have seen most of them at least once.

I lived with it but I was very frustrated playing the same people over and over. I've enjoyed not having to battle the same people every day.

In my opinion PvP should allow for a wide variety of opponents and for the first time in a long while that is happening.

Unknown

Cryptobrancus wrote:

Part of me is starting to think that unhooking shield training from mmr might be a healthy thing for the game. Tanking has long since moved from a neat trick to a recommended and almost required strategy. With people being able to tweak their own mmr it is no wonder people complain so much about MMR being broken.

It is quite possible we are the ones breaking it.

No sir, MMR was broken from the first second and had over dozen different forms, all just broken in different ways. The "fix MMR" requests died out not because it got fixed but because most everyone realized it will just not happen, no point talking about it really. Tanking is a stupid but well-working band-aid on this system that lets you trade one evil for another, though at least compensate by better prizes.