And the rich keep getting richer!

Unknown

Okay, not trying to stir things up further, but I would like to state, RIO, that your concept of roster progression being hampered by not winning the number one prize seems a little off-base to me. I now have a roster and the time and inclination to win the top prize in most brackets I compete in; that was not always the case. At first I would enter tournaments with half leveled one stars just for the sake of getting the 70 ISO bottom reward. Eventually I was able to cover out Thor and OBW, struggling and scrapping all the time. Then I got a number of Punisher covers and some Doom covers and IM40 and kept fighting for higher and higher spots. Now my roster is pretty set for high level competition, but it wasn't always, and I didn't get it by placing first repeatedly. I still remember the first time I won a pvp tournament and waking up to a goofy "You were a top 1 finisher" message and a green xforce cover.

I expect most of Shield's careers charted a similar trajectory. They didn't get to first by being in first. They worked their way up to it. You can accuse me of being an old fogey with my "When I was a kid I walked uphill both ways" stories, but you really aren't providing a very compelling reason why it is no longer possible for you to do what every top player in the game once had to do.

And one note about rosters. Once you get a couple of three stars maxed, you're virtually on equal roster footing with Shield. Since four stars aren't viable yet, having a bunch of maxed 3 stars offers little more than choice, or backup if you insist on playing hours at a time. Ideally you want very efficient maxed 3 stars, I suspect Shield's overwhelming choice would be Patch + Classic Magneto + Buffed Character, but you can figure out what works for you. Just because it takes some time doesn't mean that your roster can't compete with them. Even if their stable grows while you reach that level, it is merely lateral growth, not increased potency.

And you're wrong about TheUnwiseOne. His roster is not god-like. He scores well by smart play. And taking advice from HailMary.

Clintman

I suspect Shield's overwhelming choice would be Patch + Classic Magneto + Buffed Character, but you can figure out what works for you. Just because it takes some time doesn't mean that your roster can't compete with them. Even if their stable grows while you reach that level, it is merely lateral growth, not increased potency.

We are all over the place, Patch + Cmags is fast, LT and BP is insane Defense, and there is growing love for HT on Offense though I can't quite figure out a normal use for him yet.

over_clocked

Clintman wrote:

I suspect Shield's overwhelming choice would be Patch + Classic Magneto + Buffed Character, but you can figure out what works for you. Just because it takes some time doesn't mean that your roster can't compete with them. Even if their stable grows while you reach that level, it is merely lateral growth, not increased potency.

We are all over the place, Patch + Cmags is fast, LT and BP is insane Defense, and there is growing love for HT on Offense though I can't quite figure out a normal use for him yet.

I dunno LT and BP are slow against AP denial, I'd rather face them than the Hulk without bringing Spidey, or than cMags with 5 red.

Unknown

My recent team of Daredevil/Doom/BWGS has been tearing it up.

Copps

locked wrote:

Copps wrote:

The biggest problem with the current alliance reward breakdown is once I finish my 4 stars I'm not going to feel a huge need to shield my 1k+ scores unless I need the 3 star and there aren't many of them I need. So without a better reward system so I care if we are 4th or 49th I'm going to be spending less hp.

Would you try for 1st if the rewards were 'defensive boosts', '3-tourney usage shields', 'PvP shields'? (Lol my imagination has run wild.)
Ooh and roster slots, can't forget those. There are 38 characters in the game right now, Falcon will be 39th, and a roster slot costs 500 HP at this point.

Yeah or even if the reward for first is a new 4 star even if they are just as bad as xforce because I gotta collect them all. I know I am in a tiny minority of having four stars fully covered but better alliance breakdown would keep me caring about my score.

reckless442

I'm loving HT/LT/Classic Mags (5/3/5 build). Once Classic Mags has 4 blue, the other side *might* get one or two more turns.

_RiO_

dlaw008 wrote:

Okay, not trying to stir things up further, but I would like to state, RIO, that your concept of roster progression being hampered by not winning the number one prize seems a little off-base to me.

Don't put words in my mouth, thank you very much. I mentioned the 3* cover awards and those are certainly not the top 1 award.

No, I wouldn't expect you to need the top 1 4* prize for roster progression.

However, there comes a time when your 2* roster is fully developed or close to being fully developed and you have to transition to 3*. Because of numerous aforementioned factors it has simply become that much harder to consistently get hold of the right series of 3* covers to build up a team you can work with. Without a fully developed team, you can forget about the top 3* awards from PvE unless you manage to stay on the gravy train of having the essential characters. Those nodes generally don't scale that fast, while nearing the end of an event everything else will have scaled out of reach, esp. now that most known tanking mechanics for PvE have gone out the window. That leaves PvP, which means active tanking (and a hell of a lot of it, since players that are already transitioned to 3* rosters use the same trick) to keep your MMR down far enough to prevent 141 encounters late into your final climb.

Personally I've been able to manage the tanking aspect, but being that I'm from Europe and most PvP events end at utterly worthless times, even if I shield I'll usually still drop from top 10 to top 50 simply by being passed over in the last points run. These days I have to keep my fingers crossed to finish just within the bounds to get one 3* cover, when I used to be able to confidentally get atleast one and sometimes grab two. I wouldn't even bother anymore right now if I have to score higher than 50th to get the color I still need, because I know I'll be thrown down the ladder by passers-over anyway. Used to be better when there was more room on the placement reward ladder for those covers. I can only imagine the pain some other players go through trying to hold that position, especially when they climb high enough to be picked up by 3* players in their matching bubble. (That's one blessing of being forced to shield to get anywhere; you usually have to quit before the large sprint to the end when many of the late-joining high-tier teams start blasting through.)

I'm not saying that progression has become impossible. I'm saying it just has become a hell of a lot harder than what it used to be and it's on the verge of going too far. This is still a game mainly played by casuals and completely wringing their necks by the time they reach the 2* -> 3* plateau is downright dangerous to the surviveability and longevity of the game. (And before someone swoops in to say what HailMary already noted: Yes, I wouldn't consider my attitude 'casual' either, I'm just stuck with the same playing time because I cannot free up more.)

Unknown

_RiO_ wrote:

Personally I've been able to manage the tanking aspect, but being that I'm from Europe and most PvP events end at utterly worthless times, even if I shield I'll usually still drop from top 10 to top 50 simply by being passed over in the last points run.

So do You want to get some sleep or be competetive? It's really as simple as that.

Unknown

Err PVP end time shouldn't matter with shields. There's generally a threshold people hit and if you're in a European time zone you can grind up in off hours and shield out and win.

PVE is more of a problem.

_RiO_

Emeryt wrote:

_RiO_ wrote:

Personally I've been able to manage the tanking aspect, but being that I'm from Europe and most PvP events end at utterly worthless times, even if I shield I'll usually still drop from top 10 to top 50 simply by being passed over in the last points run.

So do You want to get some sleep or be competetive? It's really as simple as that.

Besides the fact that I already mentioned I am personally still able to manage, albeit at a lower pace than I'd prefer: listen to what you're saying!
You are seriously advising people to compromise their health to get ahead in a videogame?

Let's turn that around: If this game had Europe-centric finishing times for its events, would you? Well?

jozier wrote:

Err PVP end time shouldn't matter with shields. There's generally a threshold people hit and if you're in a European time zone you can grind up in off hours and shield out and win.

PVE is more of a problem.

There are no real off-hours to exploit. Evening time in Europe is mid-day in the US when plenty of players still play matches inbetween over their mobile phones.
Exploiting off-hours in Europe would mean playing in the morning when it's still night time in the US, but by night-time in the US most events will have ended already.
No matter which way you slice it; Europe gets screwed there.

However, this particular discussion related to the EU/US disparity is probably best held in another thread. (That would probably be the 7th or 8th thread requesting the developers invest in some kind of fix for that issue. I kind of stopped counting when it continued to fall on deaf ears at the 5th, so please excuse me if that count is off.)

reckless442

RiO, I think your complaints are fundamentally misdirected. The current rewards themselves don't seem to me to be the problem you keep raising -- that the game is making it hard to transition from 2* to 3*. Whether S.H.I.E.L.D gets the alliance prize or players with stronger rosters get the 4* in an individual bracket, the game gives out plenty of covers. So your argument that lower-level players are not getting "meaningful rewards" is misguided.

Having said that, the real problem you're facing is, I suspect, two-fold. First, the devs have nerfed a lot of aspects of the game that helped players previously make the transition from 2* to 3*. Lightning rounds no longer give guaranteed covers of the featured character -- one of the best ways of getting 3* covers. Ten-packs no longer guarantee a 3* hero. (As bad an investment as they are, at least you usually knew which character you would get, and the diabolical 10-page, as outrageous as it cost, guaranteed one of each 3* villain.) Other token pulls have been nerfed to decrease the odds of getting 3*s and the amount of HP being given out has been diminished, making it harder for the F2P players to buy a cover.

At the same time, the devs have pumped out a lot of new 3* characters. When I was making the transition from 2* to 3*, I think there were 10 or 11 3* characters. Since February, we have had Psylocke, Black Panther, Modern Thor, Steve Rogers, Human Torch, and, now, Falcon. If 1 in 15 covers you pull in a standard pack is a 3*, all those new characters dilute the odds of getting the particular characters and covers you need. On top of that, HP that might have been spent to buy covers are now needed for the added roster space since, rest assured, that new character will be needed in the next PVE or PVP. And then you add the fact that some of the most prized covers -- Magneto and Spiderman -- have not been offered recently, players making the transition from 2* to 3* can be frustrated.

The devs need to make it easier to get those older 3* covers. One tourney every two months with a character doesn't solve the problem. I can think of a few solutions:

1. Have a token that covers a select group of older 3*s. Like the old diabolical pack, make the 10-pack guarantee one of each of those covers.

2. In PVP, add a tier of prizes that give an older 3* (or the token) instead of yet another Moonstone, OBW, or 2* Cap. The odds of getting those in token pulls are high enough that they really don't need to be PVP prizes.

3. Maybe create an in-game exchange system where 2 newer 3* covers can be exchanged for the older 3* cover of your choice. If you have managed to fully cover your Steve Rogers through the recent events, maybe you could trade two of those for one Spidey blue or Hulk black. It's a 2:1 transaction so it's not too easy to use and there is a net loss for someone who decides to buy a pack and then trade the covers. Also, it provides no incentive for old players with fully covered rosters to farm covers, since they probably have the older characters fully covered. They could begin by deeming "older characters" those who have been out for three months of longer, so anyone before Daredevil, and that pool would expand as time goes on.

Unknown

Can someone hand this man his gold star so he can feel special? *facepaw*

-edit- and ninja's by reckless

Unknown

_RiO_ wrote:

Emeryt wrote:

_RiO_ wrote:

Personally I've been able to manage the tanking aspect, but being that I'm from Europe and most PvP events end at utterly worthless times, even if I shield I'll usually still drop from top 10 to top 50 simply by being passed over in the last points run.

So do You want to get some sleep or be competetive? It's really as simple as that.

Besides the fact that I already mentioned I am personally still able to manage, albeit at a lower pace than I'd prefer: listen to what you're saying!
You are seriously advising people to compromise their health to get ahead in a videogame?

Let's turn that around: If this game had Europe-centric finishing times for its events, would you? Well?

jozier wrote:

Err PVP end time shouldn't matter with shields. There's generally a threshold people hit and if you're in a European time zone you can grind up in off hours and shield out and win.

PVE is more of a problem.

There are no real off-hours to exploit. Evening time in Europe is mid-day in the US when plenty of players still play matches inbetween over their mobile phones.
Exploiting off-hours in Europe would mean playing in the morning when it's still night time in the US, but by night-time in the US most events will have ended already.
No matter which way you slice it; Europe gets screwed there.

However, this particular discussion related to the EU/US disparity is probably best held in another thread. (That would probably be the 7th or 8th thread requesting the developers invest in some kind of fix for that issue. I kind of stopped counting when it continued to fall on deaf ears at the 5th, so please excuse me if that count is off.)

I think what you need is a single player experience. by it's very nature competition is meant to reward the people on top. Demiurge has actually went way out of their way in order to make the competition aspect as friendly as possible to all ranges of players. Although there are improvements to me made, I dont think it's in the best interest of the game to reduce incentives for doing well and playing more.

If you continue to flatten our the rewards and make it so everyone has easier access to more reward tiers competition starts becoming meaningless. maybe not meaningless because it will still be fun, but you are definitely removing the major incentive.

I actually think having an ongoing, repeatable single player campaign would be awesome, sometimes you dont feel like competing or are in between events and yet you still want to play the game. The only problem is that people like us would probably grind the hell out of single player if there was meaningful rewards. although you could probably cap that if you put a cap on the number of times you could clear it per month.

I do hear you though that it's becoming slower to get your 3* team. with the changes to tokens and replacing some 3* rewards with said tokens, it looks like they want it to take a lot longer for you to get to a 3* roster. Part of this issue might be the speed that content can be generated. It took me 3 months to get my first 141 and I have 3 others that are right on the verge of becoming 141s. that's pretty much the end game, anything past that is collectibility of new heroes and refining your roster. Not's not a great place for a ongoing game to be in where it only takes 3 months to blast through everything. Although it stinks to be in the mid game right now because you are ones that are mainly being affected by this, they need to stretch that out so it takes longer so people don't get bored and leave the game after playing for 6 months.

The only other option would be to find a way to transition to 4*s faster.

HailMary

_RiO_ wrote:

Let's turn that around: If this game had Europe-centric finishing times for its events, would you? Well?

Heh, Emeryt is based in Europe.

I second basically everything that reckless said. The basic point you're trying to make doesn't seem to have much to do with your earlier statements, e.g. "In other words; Shield and other top alliances are at the top mainly because they've 'gone pro' and if anyone else wants a chance at the goodies, then they should be willing to do the same?" Nor does it have much at all to do with the alliance system, which is the issue that the OP and subsequent comments were addressing.

In case you think everyone disagreeing with you is simply a 3* player peering down at transitional 2*->3* players from his Throne of Beastiness, I just replaced my 3xL85 2* team with a 3xL115 3* team maybe two weeks ago, I joined DjangoUnbuffed around seven(?) weeks ago, and I was placing Top 10 in PVP before the alliance system was even introduced. We have several Djangoliers still using a 3x2* team or a 3*-2*-2* team. They do quite well for themselves.

Unknown

Check out my roster in January. Note that I have no maxed 3-star characters (unless you want to count dr. doom). I might have been regarded as a top player.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1960

There are great 2-star lineups.

Using 40 MBW, 40 C.Hawkeye, and 50 M.Storm I have beaten a prenerf 115 Rag, 141 Spiderman, 141 GSBW, and 112 Rag, 140 Spiderman, and 140 IM40, without boosts, in SHIELD training. I have beaten numerous teams with various lineups ranging from level 70 to 141 (maybe one maxed).

You can do a lot of craziness in the forest with Modern Storm and Modern Widow.

over_clocked

reckless442 wrote:

I'm loving HT/LT/Classic Mags (5/3/5 build). Once Classic Mags has 4 blue, the other side *might* get one or two more turns.

Didn't you mean 5 blue?

Unknown

Bugpop wrote:

Check out my roster in January. Note that I have no maxed 3-star characters (unless you want to count dr. doom). I might have been regarded as a top player.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1960

There are great 2-star lineups.

Using 40 MBW, 40 C.Hawkeye, and 50 M.Storm I have beaten a prenerf 115 Rag, 141 Spiderman, 141 GSBW, and 112 Rag, 140 Spiderman, and 140 IM40, without boosts, in SHIELD training. I have beaten numerous teams with various lineups ranging from level 70 to 141 (maybe one maxed).

You can do a lot of craziness in the forest with Modern Storm and Modern Widow.

here are some examples of changes since then:

-character buffs in tournements lowered considerably.
-boosts heavily nerfed multiple times (see: more expensive).
-tholverine nerf, both were 2** and both were top 5 characters.
-when exactly was rag nerfed? Does he count here? If he does..then I would put gsbw on this list as well as him.
-character boosts don't affect crit multipliers anymore (see: m.storm insta wins in forest deactivated, still good though).

Not sure what either of our points were though...lol.

2** now are still viable. Even w/o boosts human v machine and a 85 ares, 85 obw, 85...other (or a 3***) is still a team able to take down maxed 3*** teams reliably enough. Your damage taken each round WILL be much higher though. Before 2** wolvie could solo rounds for you as could thor. I could make an argument for og 2** thor being better offensively than lazy thor ...