And the rich keep getting richer!

Arogntbastrd

Arogntbastrd wrote:

As long as we're discussing tiers though, during one of the pves they did sub events where 1st and 2nd got the same prize. My stabby brethren and I got 2nd twice in those and it was pretty sweet. What are the thoughts on just having it always be 1 and 2 get top prize?

I think I changed the hunt reward structure with my mind. OH THE POWER!!!

Unknown

Dauthi wrote:

Agreed. The reward for 1st is a joke. It isn't fun watching the same team get first consistently then having their reward tipped heavily in their favor.. I would bet most people would have less gripes against alliances if they spread the wealth more proportionately throughout the top ranks as well. It's the image of the top 1% getting wealthier that is enraging people, and seeing the same team get an overbalanced amount of HP every event promotes this image.

I don't think that the reward is tipped in our favor. I think we have players who are more committed to playing the game. On top of that we have some very talented players.

If you, as a player, give up before the tournament has ended, then you will never take first. By mere participation we earn first because that is the way we play. Alliance members need to take it to the next level. The reason you aren't taking first because you don't deserve it. If you took away the HP we would still take first.

Unknown

jozier wrote:

Place first then. It's not like it's an automatic victory for the first place alliance each time.

But I'm pretty sure every person in my alliance agrees that seeing better rewards and further differentiation in the 2-50 bracket would be better.

I agree with this.

Unknown

In a way the lower reward in the hunt just makes it so there is no incentive to play hard. if no one is playing hard then no one gets the human torch at the end of the progression.

this mainly applies to PvE but there are benefits to having a really awesome prize at the top of personal and alliance even if the same people are getting the reward all the time. If people are fighting for the reward then their points will end up being higher than if they are just as happy getting the featured cover. as their points climb, everyone else can ride scaling to get more progression rewards.

In the hunt it seems like the subs just have really awful rewards especially considering the nerfed tokens. does anyone really want to fight for 1st in order to get a 80% chance at a 2* cover given the fact they would probably screw up their PvE MMR for future events?

Also, everyone here has an opportunity to build up your roster and play more. the hp rewards are not critical to winning, it's a nice bonus, but it hardly makes up for the time we spend playing the game.

If you think that 500hp is critical to winning, have your alliance save up HP for some event in the future. Win that event with your nest egg and theoretically, once you get that 1st place win, you should be able to turn it into a chain reaction of wins that no one else will be able to break through.

over_clocked

2davecazz: I see through your evil plan! Your opposition might take the chain combo from you, but to maintain it they would have to quit their jobs and SOs and die childless so that the awesome S.H.I.E.L.D-opposing genes are simply extracted from the gene pool! Clever!

2Bugpop: I saw your roster and was smitten, how much does a 70-ish slot cost? The wiki only has info on 60 slots (750 HP!). It must be around 850 HP?

Unknown

locked wrote:

2davecazz: I see through your evil plan! Your opposition might take the chain combo from you, but to maintain it they would have to quit their jobs and SOs and die childless so that the awesome S.H.I.E.L.D-opposing genes are simply extracted from the gene pool! Clever!

2Bugpop: I saw your roster and was smitten, how much does a 70-ish slot cost? The wiki only has info on 60 slots (750 HP!). It must be around 850 HP?

you saw right through my plan! gash dangit!

Unknown

locked wrote:

2davecazz: I see through your evil plan! Your opposition might take the chain combo from you, but to maintain it they would have to quit their jobs and SOs and die childless so that the awesome S.H.I.E.L.D-opposing genes are simply extracted from the gene pool! Clever!

2Bugpop: I saw your roster and was smitten, how much does a 70-ish slot cost? The wiki only has info on 60 slots (750 HP!). It must be around 850 HP?

It will cost 950 to increase capacity to 73

Nemek

Bugpop wrote:

locked wrote:

2davecazz: I see through your evil plan! Your opposition might take the chain combo from you, but to maintain it they would have to quit their jobs and SOs and die childless so that the awesome S.H.I.E.L.D-opposing genes are simply extracted from the gene pool! Clever!

2Bugpop: I saw your roster and was smitten, how much does a 70-ish slot cost? The wiki only has info on 60 slots (750 HP!). It must be around 850 HP?

It will cost 950 to increase capacity to 73

Bahaha, I noticed the page counter on the bottom breaks on my iPad when I look at your roster...not looking forward to buying all of those slots..

Unknown

I agree with jozier more than anyone else here on the issue. If you want the first place prize, then win it. I guarantee that there are alliances that pit in more money than the Shield guys do and therefore have more HP to shield with. The reason Shield wins is because they pull out all the stops. They do everything right. They have (most of them) built a very efficient roster. They tank superbly. They play at off times. They play A LOT. They coordinate between each other. The reason nobody has beat them yet is not because they have 500 more HP than anyone (they don't), it's because of all that other stuff.

So there you have it. I have just laid out the plan for any of you to beat Shield. Do those 5 things better than them and you will win number one. It will cost you sleep, family time, possibly work time, and will require that you maniacally obsess over this game for at least the duration of one event. Because that's how they do it; so can you. There is no 'trick' or easy way.

The hard truth is this: if you are someone who is willing to go the distance to beat Shield, you are either already in Shield or you are already in one of the top ten alliances right now. If you are complaining about not being able to get into a top ten alliance it's most likely because you don't belong there.

On the other hand, if you score 1000+ points every PvP, but haven't found a spot yet, PM klingsor or Psykopathic. They are putting together their 5th, yes that's right 5th, alliance right now.

Unknown

dlaw008 wrote:

I agree with jozier more than anyone else here on the issue. If you want the first place prize, then win it. I guarantee that there are alliances that pit in more money than the Shield guys do and therefore have more HP to shield with. The reason Shield wins is because they pull out all the stops. They do everything right. They have (most of them) built a very efficient roster. They tank superbly. They play at off times. They play A LOT. They coordinate between each other. The reason nobody has beat them yet is not because they have 500 more HP than anyone (they don't), it's because of all that other stuff.

So there you have it. I have just laid out the plan for any of you to beat Shield. Do those 5 things better than them and you will win number one. It will cost you sleep, family time, possibly work time, and will require that you maniacally obsess over this game for at least the duration of one event. Because that's how they do it; so can you. There is no 'trick' or easy way.

The hard truth is this: if you are someone who is willing to go the distance to beat Shield, you are either already in Shield or you are already in one of the top ten alliances right now. If you are complaining about not being able to get into a top ten alliance it's most likely because you don't belong there.

On the other hand, if you score 1000+ points every PvP, but haven't found a spot yet, PM klingsor or Psykopathic. They are putting together their 5th, yes that's right 5th, alliance right now.

While i completely agree with your points, there isnt any reason that they shouldn't improve the reward structure for the 2-50 to make things more competitive.

Dauthi

dlaw008 wrote:

I agree with jozier more than anyone else here on the issue. If you want the first place prize, then win it. I guarantee that there are alliances that pit in more money than the Shield guys do and therefore have more HP to shield with. The reason Shield wins is because they pull out all the stops. They do everything right. They have (most of them) built a very efficient roster. They tank superbly. They play at off times. They play A LOT. They coordinate between each other. The reason nobody has beat them yet is not because they have 500 more HP than anyone (they don't), it's because of all that other stuff.

So there you have it. I have just laid out the plan for any of you to beat Shield. Do those 5 things better than them and you will win number one. It will cost you sleep, family time, possibly work time, and will require that you maniacally obsess over this game for at least the duration of one event. Because that's how they do it; so can you. There is no 'trick' or easy way.

The hard truth is this: if you are someone who is willing to go the distance to beat Shield, you are either already in Shield or you are already in one of the top ten alliances right now. If you are complaining about not being able to get into a top ten alliance it's most likely because you don't belong there.

On the other hand, if you score 1000+ points every PvP, but haven't found a spot yet, PM klingsor or Psykopathic. They are putting together their 5th, yes that's right 5th, alliance right now.

This is like saying it is OK to handicap all competition to a specific competitor because he always wins. I mean, he always wins, so what is the point? Just make it easier for him To make matters worse in this specific competition the consecutive wins have an impact on future wins, so the handicap on everyone else increases over time.

The hard truth is that a ridiculous amount of bonus HP in comparison to other prizes helps, period.

Unknown

Dauthi wrote:

This is like saying it is OK to handicap all competition to a specific competitor because he always wins. I mean, he always wins, so what is the point? Just make it easier for him

Not quite. It's more like saying, "Here are the rules of the game. That's what they were in the beginning, that's what they are now. The individual members of Shield were the best then, and they are collectively the best now. Absolutely nothing about that is different."

Dauthi wrote:

To make matters worse in this specific competition the consecutive wins have an impact on future wins, so the handicap on everyone else increases over time.

The hard truth is that a ridiculous amount of bonus HP in comparison to other prizes helps, period.

A ridiculous amount of bonus HP? It's $5 worth of HP, if purchased at the worst conversion rate. Even if I ignore the idea that $5 is a ridiculous prize rather than a huge hyperbole, how much help does it, indeed, grant? Is it as important as tanking? Well, something seems screwy with matchmaking since the last update, so possibly, but until yesterday I would have said resoundingly, no. Is it as important as playing at providential times, or just playing a lot? Not even close. Is it as important as good coordination? I don't think it even outclasses that. It is basically about as valuable as home-field advantage in a seven game series for professional athletics. Which is like saying, "It exists".

Like almost everyone else, I think there should be more prize tiers among the top 50, if only to give everyone else something substantial worth competing for, rather than just bragging rights. Would any such change suddenly make other alliances more competitive for number one than Shield? No, because their 500 HP prize is probably the smallest advantage they have.

Seriously, I start to wonder who is drinking the Kool-Aid. Shield wins because they are the most active, knowledgeable, canniest players in the game. They want the free HP, sure, but it does not grant them an insurmountable never-ending advantage. If it did, the game would be pure p2w, since I have no doubts whatsoever that there are plenty of players willing to shell out a lot more than $5 if it meant unseating Shield.

Now that 500 iso participation prize that they get every day, that is another story.

Dauthi

dlaw008 wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

This is like saying it is OK to handicap all competition to a specific competitor because he always wins. I mean, he always wins, so what is the point? Just make it easier for him

Not quite. It's more like saying, "Here are the rules of the game. That's what they were in the beginning, that's what they are now. The individual members of Shield were the best then, and they are collectively the best now. Absolutely nothing about that is different."

Yeah, just like in my scenario. So what is the difference that you believe you are suggesting?

A ridiculous amount of bonus HP? It's $5 worth of HP, if purchased at the worst conversion rate. Even if I ignore the idea that $5 is a ridiculous prize rather than a huge hyperbole, how much help does it, indeed, grant? Is it as important as tanking? Well, something seems screwy with matchmaking since the last update, so possibly, but until yesterday I would have said resoundingly, no. Is it as important as playing at providential times, or just playing a lot? Not even close. Is it as important as good coordination? I don't think it even outclasses that. It is basically about as valuable as home-field advantage in a seven game series for professional athletics. Which is like saying, "It exists".

Like almost everyone else, I think there should be more prize tiers among the top 50, if only to give everyone else something substantial worth competing for, rather than just bragging rights. Would any such change suddenly make other alliances more competitive for number one than Shield? No, because their 500 HP prize is probably the smallest advantage they have.

Seriously, I start to wonder who is drinking the Kool-Aid. Shield wins because they are the most active, knowledgeable, canniest players in the game. They want the free HP, sure, but it does not grant them an insurmountable never-ending advantage. If it did, the game would be pure p2w, since I have no doubts whatsoever that there are plenty of players willing to shell out a lot more than $5 if it meant unseating Shield.

The monetary value of 500 HP to an individual can vary based on their funds, but that is a different discussion. My point, like I said, is the comparison to other prizes. Are you suggesting that it is not a ridiculous amount contrasted against other prizes? How many other HP prizes jump to 5x the value of the previous prize?

HP can buy a lot in the game, and it's value is directly related to progression in the game. That is why it can be bought. When the best players are given a ridiculously advantageous prize, I think most would agree it is making them become insurmountable. How could it not is a much better question.

Unknown

dlaw008 wrote:

Seriously, I start to wonder who is drinking the Kool-Aid. Shield wins because they are the most active, knowledgeable, canniest players in the game.

I'd rather say the most addicted to see #1 by their names....

But it's okay, and I also don't think a different prize structure would create significantly different results.

Dauthi

pasa_ wrote:

dlaw008 wrote:

Seriously, I start to wonder who is drinking the Kool-Aid. Shield wins because they are the most active, knowledgeable, canniest players in the game.

But it's okay, and I also don't think a different prize structure would create significantly different results.

It may be that it won't change the outcome of who is in 1st, but that doesn't mean you should make the possibility harder to reach.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

dlaw008 wrote:

Seriously, I start to wonder who is drinking the Kool-Aid. Shield wins because they are the most active, knowledgeable, canniest players in the game.

I'd rather say the most addicted to see #1 by their names....

But it's okay, and I also don't think a different prize structure would create significantly different results.

I think altering the top 50 rewards could in-fact affect the general results of the 2-50 teams

Unknown

dlaw008 wrote:

A ridiculous amount of bonus HP? It's $5 worth of HP, if purchased at the worst conversion rate. Even if I ignore the idea that $5 is a ridiculous prize rather than a huge hyperbole, how much help does it, indeed, grant? Is it as important as tanking? Well, something seems screwy with matchmaking since the last update, so possibly, but until yesterday I would have said resoundingly, no. Is it as important as playing at providential times, or just playing a lot? Not even close. Is it as important as good coordination? I don't think it even outclasses that. It is basically about as valuable as home-field advantage in a seven game series for professional athletics. Which is like saying, "It exists".

It's $5 of HP two or three times a week. That adds up, Jerry! It adds up!

_RiO_

dlaw008 wrote:

I agree with jozier more than anyone else here on the issue. If you want the first place prize, then win it. I guarantee that there are alliances that pit in more money than the Shield guys do and therefore have more HP to shield with. The reason Shield wins is because they pull out all the stops. They do everything right. They have (most of them) built a very efficient roster. They tank superbly. They play at off times. They play A LOT. They coordinate between each other. The reason nobody has beat them yet is not because they have 500 more HP than anyone (they don't), it's because of all that other stuff.

So there you have it. I have just laid out the plan for any of you to beat Shield. Do those 5 things better than them and you will win number one. It will cost you sleep, family time, possibly work time, and will require that you maniacally obsess over this game for at least the duration of one event. Because that's how they do it; so can you. There is no 'trick' or easy way.

The hard truth is this: if you are someone who is willing to go the distance to beat Shield, you are either already in Shield or you are already in one of the top ten alliances right now. If you are complaining about not being able to get into a top ten alliance it's most likely because you don't belong there.

On the other hand, if you score 1000+ points every PvP, but haven't found a spot yet, PM klingsor or Psykopathic. They are putting together their 5th, yes that's right 5th, alliance right now.

In other words; Shield and other top alliances are at the top mainly because they've 'gone pro' and if anyone else wants a chance at the goodies, then they should be willing to do the same?
If you think that's a valid argument that excuses the problem, you've lost touch with the simple reality that this is a game and that people should be able to treat it as such and still have a reasonable expectation of winning something substantial without hitting the "pro league starts here"-wall.

Unknown

_RiO_ wrote:

dlaw008 wrote:

I agree with jozier more than anyone else here on the issue. If you want the first place prize, then win it. I guarantee that there are alliances that pit in more money than the Shield guys do and therefore have more HP to shield with. The reason Shield wins is because they pull out all the stops. They do everything right. They have (most of them) built a very efficient roster. They tank superbly. They play at off times. They play A LOT. They coordinate between each other. The reason nobody has beat them yet is not because they have 500 more HP than anyone (they don't), it's because of all that other stuff.

So there you have it. I have just laid out the plan for any of you to beat Shield. Do those 5 things better than them and you will win number one. It will cost you sleep, family time, possibly work time, and will require that you maniacally obsess over this game for at least the duration of one event. Because that's how they do it; so can you. There is no 'trick' or easy way.

The hard truth is this: if you are someone who is willing to go the distance to beat Shield, you are either already in Shield or you are already in one of the top ten alliances right now. If you are complaining about not being able to get into a top ten alliance it's most likely because you don't belong there.

On the other hand, if you score 1000+ points every PvP, but haven't found a spot yet, PM klingsor or Psykopathic. They are putting together their 5th, yes that's right 5th, alliance right now.

In other words; Shield and other top alliances are at the top mainly because they've 'gone pro' and if anyone else wants a chance at the goodies, then they should be willing to do the same?
If you think that's a valid argument that excuses the problem, you've lost touch with the simple reality that this is a game and that people should be able to treat it as such and still have a reasonable expectation of winning something substantial without hitting the "pro league starts here"-wall.

Btw, considering the last bloodbath at the top during hulk, we are spending a lot more than we are winning to get that 1st place.

Nemek

We are?? Huh.