Update on the Trial of the Planes Event (3/9/17)

Magog

Lagartha wrote:

Feyda wrote:

gruntface wrote:

Phase wrote:

You know what happens in the paper game when I open a card I already have (EDH player)? I sell it and take another spin. No harm no fowl.

Sounds like a poultry return to me.



Sorry.



I'm so sorry.

Dont egg them on.....

Egg hoo on?

I think we're getting off topic and getting away from the complaints here, to which I say that you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

I'm so sorry...

tfg76

Here's my math on this.

A mythic is apparently worth around 300 crystals (as evidenced by the "guaranteed mythic packs" that come now and then). In my opinion, the chance at a masterpiece doesn't increase the value that much, but maybe such a pack is worth 400 crystals.

This means that jewels are roughly equivalent to crystals in value.

Then you can compare the value of the TOTP event to a "regular" event (say, Nodes of Power). In the latter, if you complete all progression rewards, you usually get around 60-70 crystals and 2-3 booster packs for free entry (gold). If we convert those boosters, that's 250-300 crystals worth of value. In the former, we get 8! jewels, 10 crystals and a booster pack, maybe 80 crystals worth of value for a 60 crystal investment (and that's discarding the probability that making the full progression is much harder!). So clearly, this doesn't make sense.

As a proposal, what I would do instead is to top off the existing events' progression awards with mana jewels, so that it's more often worth going for the secondary and tertiary ribbons. This way, jewels are a secondary reward that gives highly active players a long term reward. I also like the idea of giving jewels to compensate for receiving duplicate rares and mythics.

But: thanks for the 100 crystals! Those will go nicely towards bying Saheeli.

losdamianos

Brigby wrote:

Mainloop25 wrote:

Yeah you should have....

Please show some consideration. Lakestone usually handles all the difficult, back-end details (which quite frankly, can be tedious and boring, but needs to be done for stuff like the forum or social to exist), but he wanted to take the time to bring some clarity and communication to the community in order to help answer some of the players' concerns. There was no need for that quip.

hold on
objectively even in oath of gatewatch we get worse rewards than in pre patch you dont need genius to realize that now you get less crystals and less/worse booster packs you dont need genius to realize/predict user feedback....

I do get that mesterpieces should be really hard to get but why did you have to cannibalize existing rewards .
Also is there any reason why You have decided to remove big box ? which used to be best value ?

majincob

LakeStone wrote:

For starters, Masterpiece cards are the most valuable cards in the game, and we have made them a rare commodity, both to give our most advanced players something new to play with, but also to keep them from introducing power creep that will make the game harder for beginners. They should be the furthest thing from common and earning Mana Jewels to get boosters from the Masterpiece Collection is something that will take players some time.

There are other ways to get Masterpiece cards and other ways to earn Mana Jewels, but we want them both to be something that is earned over time and encourages people to play in various events.

Whale whale whale, what do we have here?



That didn't take long

Muche

My impression from participating in the event - only players that can spare crystals joined, those players have many mythics, thus I faced decks full of mythics. The result was a not fun experience, 1 booster and 2 jewels (thanks to some lucky cascades).

Szamsziel

I played it two times already - first and last. The rewards are not worth an effort. Without the payment for entrance and better rewards (boosters) the idea is perfect though. I liked the challenge. (approaching legendary node)

Solfury

It's one thing to make it harder to get the cards and, another to rip people off. I spent 240 to get 5K in crystals and 800 of the new ones. So the only epics I got were from the new ones and one I had already. I spent the rest in kedesh trying to get at least one new card from the new set. I got nothing but Evey rare I already had. That is a complete ripoff! When I spend a $100 on 3K I usually get at least 1 epic if not 2 or 3

Nezumi

The rewards do not justify the entry cost. I think the fundamentally flawed logic is that you believe that players would spend 60 crystals on a single pack, of KLD no less. Most people that I know are chasing after SOI packs. Perhaps if they could pick the set it might be okay. As it stands, it's just a bad deal no matter how you look at it.

The difficulty of the event is fine. I don't mind the opponent getting extra strong on different nodes. I have decks that deal with that. But 15 jewels is not worth my time. If you really want something interesting, make it cost 10 crystals to join, 10 crystals if you win everything and remove the pack as a reward. 15 jewels for 10 crystals might be reasonable if you can win everything.

I don't think people are asking you to make jewels rain from the sky. Trickling them in is fine. Making this event cost 60 under the premise that you get a pack is awful. We all know the drop rates are better (well are they really? so far, it seems like no one has gotten anything...) in larger pack sizes.

The event is/was fun. I like the challenge. It's bad value. Had you not given me 100 crystals to test it, I would have not wasted my time.

Ampmp11

The value isn't there. There's a lot of games, which you need to perfect and even when you perfect it you don't get much in return. There's a lot of stress to go perfect for not a lot, which takes out the fun and joy of trying new strategies.

cwashley

I also thank you for attempting to offset the cost of the event with the 100 gems.

I played the event, and it was, like many events, enjoyable and could be a good event with some tweeks.

I still find the new addition of the "pay to play" model very frustrating as it is a fundamental change in the game. If you made the events free, just like the Gatewatch events, it would not "flood the market" with mana jewels. I won a total of 10 mana jewels from the event, and would be surprised if I ever win more than that in any daily event.

Therefor, I would have to play 40 days in a row for a CHANCE to get a masterpiece card (ostensibly 1/3). That does not make the likelihood of getting masterpiece cards very high. ESPECIALLY when you have at least 3 masterpiece cards with built in synergy suggesting that they aren't supposed to be "you get one a year" type of card.

The rewards are also a little silly because at the higher tiers, if you lose one match, you can then lose two without any decrease in the amount of rewards you get.

However, as much as I enjoyed the challenge of the event I will not play any more because I refuse to support the pay to play model. Had the game had this when I started playing 6 months ago, I would have deleted it from my phone within a week.

Shadoze

This game is doing precisely what every other FREE to play game is designed to do which is make money (ironic isn't it?). Just like every other f2p game I have played the developers try to push the limits of what they can charge for and how much they can charge before the player base, even the wales, start to push back. When the developers push beyond that point the game dies and both the player and developers lose.

This game is at a crossroads at the moment.

It has been expressed by players, even by admitted whales, that the developers have crossed that line with the new event and rewards system. I personally enjoy this game and want it to continue. I am neither a whale nor am I anywhere near F2P (mini whale maybe?). I ask the developers to listen carefully to what the players have posted here. Consider that charging more WILL end up making you less money, and if not careful end the game itself.

I personally will not be entering events that cost money. I will not be purchasing gems for a possible slim chance for a masterpiece. I will not purchase the exclusive mythics at the inflated price. Neither will many of the other players. Developers can save or destroy the game with what is done next so please don't let the thought of a quick profit ruin what could be a long term business arrangement between us, the players, and yourselves.

810Bourne

Bigby, you guys are missing a huge point. You said that tensions are high, bit there shouldn't be tension.

This company, which I have supported since 1993 (The table top) and since the original Puzzle Quest on the Xbox (I have bought every genre D3 has made), has decided to make the players the enemies.

Back when D3 complained that they couldn't get Puzzle Quest published because developers lived the games, but didn't know how to classify it, some of us stuck with you guys.

Of, several hundred dollars later, on this game alone, you guys would do something this bad.

This was a huge price jump. The packs are near worthless, and the exclusives are ridiculous.

You told a poster to show some consideration, we'll, we are the people who feed you. We are the ones that provide the pay checks. It's us who deserved consideration. Instead, we got a back hand slap across the face by a steel fist wearing a velvet glove.

sageofhalo451

Nezumi wrote:

The rewards do not justify the entry cost. I think the fundamentally flawed logic is that you believe that players would spend 60 crystals on a single pack, of KLD no less. Most people that I know are chasing after SOI packs. Perhaps if they could pick the set it might be okay. As it stands, it's just a bad deal no matter how you look at it.

The difficulty of the event is fine. I don't mind the opponent getting extra strong on different nodes. I have decks that deal with that. But 15 jewels is not worth my time. If you really want something interesting, make it cost 10 crystals to join, 10 crystals if you win everything and remove the pack as a reward. 15 jewels for 10 crystals might be reasonable if you can win everything.

I don't think people are asking you to make jewels rain from the sky. Trickling them in is fine. Making this event cost 60 under the premise that you get a pack is awful. We all know the drop rates are better (well are they really? so far, it seems like no one has gotten anything...) in larger pack sizes.

The event is/was fun. I like the challenge. It's bad value. Had you not given me 100 crystals to test it, I would have not wasted my time.

I feel like this is getting closer to the heart of it. Brigby or Lakestone I hope you read the following as I'm going to take a lot of my time to expound in classical essay format what I feel is the matter at hand.

There is a tendency for people to want more. The line between more and enough is often just out of reach from a psychological point of view. A person that makes $200,000 a year doesn't necessarily feel like they are financially more secure than someone who makes $50,000. The way we live scales with our income. We buy a bigger house we buy expensive cars etc. etc. but unless one actively tries to stay well within their means they often get caught in the quest for more. As the metaphor applies to this game, or any other game really, people will keep asking and wanting more for less cost in general. More free more this more that. We feel a bit entitled to these rewards. The players feel excited when they pull a card they have been wanting. The rush, the spike of adrenaline, the memory of all the times that card has stood against us resounds and now that card is ours. This keeps us coming back for more. The promise of a chance at it keeps us playing. However, at what rate of granting this gift will the game be healthy and thriving? In this essay I argue that with the recent update in mind D3/Hibernum (D3/H) must limit access to cards progressively as rarity increases, players must feel that the cards are indeed accessible, and that accessibility must be at an appropriate ratio with cost in terms of time and currency.

The problem that D3/H or any game developer faces is the pacing of rewards. For the health of the game they cannot just hand everything out on a silver platter. Consider the extreme situation where everyone has every card. Due to the availability of information (forums, chat programs, and YouTube) the game would stagnate. Decks would gravitate to known compositions of prime efficiency. A card that blocks, has recursion, and gives mana is incredibly efficient and satisfies many needed aspects of a theoretically perfect deck. Therefore, as card rarity increases there must be higher and higher limits placed on how these cards can be acquired. D3/H knows this and has effectively stated it in this very thread. This latest update introduces a new tier of card rarity and thus must have higher limits for access. The difficulty in design is where to set those limits relative to each other and exactly how to implement card acquisition. D3/H is a for profit set of companies doing business with licenced Wizards of the Coast content and as such must produce a profitable business model for their share holders and their constituency. This naturally means that aspects of the game must be monetized in order to turn a profit. Availability of "premium" currency should not undermine this effort otherwise the monetized content does not have commensurate value. Nor should monetized content/currency be excessively priced so as to be disproportionate to its intrinsic value. Based on community feedback the perception of value for the new currency and the old is not in an optimum state relative to what they are able to reasonably obtain. This is true primarily for the new event and the new elite packs but not exclusively so. In summary D3/H must limit card access and must monetize their product however, the particulars as these aspects relate to cost and value require refinement in order to prolong the health of the game.

The other side of the coin is of course the players and their interests are of equal import. As players we come in all shapes and sizes all with varying senses of reward and accomplishment for the games we play. Some like to see big numbers and hit for big damage. Some like to complete collections. Some like to meticulously plan and perfect a deck to tackle the biggest obstacle they can find to rise triumphant. The sense of reward is slightly different from person to person but when boiled down to the base psychological input they can be discussed in terms of having the desired cards for the desired purpose. For there to be a reward there must be a challenge to clear in order to get that reward or the reward itself has no entertainment value. The reward of getting a particular card increases with a cards perceived worth or again, value. The player must feel that the reward is obtainable with the challenge matching the reward. If the challenge is too difficult the value of the reward is not worth the effort. Vice versa if the challenge is too easy then the reward is cheapened and it loses value. The new event highlights this inequality and the point has been argued by others that the currency is better spent elsewhere. In any case, whether by purchase or by in-game effort and time the output reward must be perceived as of equal value to the input.

The cost to reward value ratio is the core of the debate on these forums. D3/H argues that these new rewards must be difficult to obtain and they are correct. The players argue that the current effort necessary is not of equal value to what they might get from a purchase. Might is the key word as the elite packs are currently 70% mythics. Offering up mythics for purchase is good but at the right cost. As it stands the amount of time and effort or money spent is perceived as too much to justify buying an elite pack. The RNG aspect undermines the value at present cost. Were the masterpieces separated from the mythics into a different elite pack and both priced appropriately the RNG can be reduced to getting a duplicate vs getting a mythic or masterpiece. From there the value ratio can be refined.

In conclusion D3/H must maintain rarity of ever more rare cards and these cards must be reasonably obtainable for a commensurate cost as perceived by the playerbase. The difficulty in finding that optimum value for this is that its different for everyone. The feedback garnered thus far dictates that at least presently the value is not where it should be.


Thank you to anyone who takes the time to read this. In light of recent knowledge regarding event rewards it seems the difficulty of getting mythic or better cards has increased for everyone but even more so for those who stand at the top 10 in terms of coalitions. The evening out of rewards to a degree is better for the health of the game but the slashing of baseline rewards is probably detrimental.

I implore D3/H to see reason in the words of their players as a whole and find some middle ground. I feel I've taken your point of view into account to the extent that I can and have presented an argument worthy of your consideration at the very least.

wereotter

Considering the 100 free crystals I tried out the event, and now can offer legitimate feedback:

The event as a concept is interesting and one I might try to play again, if not for the fee for entry. There are a few reasons for this, most, if not all, have already been stated.

1) Matchmaking is still as terrible as ever. There must be hundreds of thousands of green decks in player hands. So why am I still matching off against Killwind's Kiora deck three times in an event? There is a blatant bias toward certain player's decks to the point there is no way it's coincidental, and honestly I can't help wondering if these players are being given some sort of kick back from the Devs to have their decks used, or being supplied with the most powerful cards to put in their decks to make it more challenging.

2) The rewards aren't worth the effort. Even if you manage to beat all your matches, which I did not, nor did I even come close, it's still only a pittance of jewels and 10 crystals back. I'll get more jewels just by getting progression in Revolt against the Consulate than I did in this event, and without the entry fee.

3) This is a personal take, but the challenge is unfairly lopsided. Taking on powerful decks can be fun. Crafting a strategy to take on Tezzeret in the PvE event brings people together, and is an interesting obstacle to overcome. However.... as my opponent is randomized in this event, and there's absolutely zero way for me to confidently say what cards my opponent will be running, it's impossible for me to prepare myself with appropriate answers for a Baral deck over an energy deck, even without changing planeswalkers. The possibility to win seems too slim and too much up to chance when combined with reason 2.

Final takeaway, it was a nice try, and I'm sure some people will enjoy it. However, I don't see myself participating in the future.

Massive Dragon

and we have made them a rare commodity, both to give our most advanced players something new to play with, but also to keep them from introducing power creep that will make the game harder for beginners. They should be the furthest thing from common and earning Mana Jewels to get boosters from the Masterpiece Collection is something that will take players some time.

Unless you give us $100 because quite honestly we hate each and every one of you but we love... YOUR MONEY!! OM NOM NOM NOM NOM!!!

AettThorn

wereotter wrote:

1) Matchmaking is still as terrible as ever. There must be hundreds of thousands of green decks in player hands. So why am I still matching off against Killwind's Kiora deck three times in an event? There is a blatant bias toward certain player's decks to the point there is no way it's coincidental, and honestly I can't help wondering if these players are being given some sort of kick back from the Devs to have their decks used, or being supplied with the most powerful cards to put in their decks to make it more challenging.

You mean facing GunBunny 7 times isn't normal when selecting from thousands of players' decks?

Celtao

I will post here as it seems the place to do so. What you are seeing from the devs post is called Damage Control. They have no real intention of fixing anything to normalize this game. They are soley after your money. I will show facts to follow. But first, I wonder how involved they truly are with Wizards of the Coast. Even they, in their, lets put out new card groupings more often than UFC ppv mindset, might be appalled at this obvious money grab. I digress....

Fact #1 - Saheeli Rai. She will soon be available to you for crystals. She has twice been released for real world currency. The last time was less than a month ago I believe. She should have been avaliable the 2nd time for crystals. It was just a way to try to grab your cash before they released her to the masses.

Fact #2 - The next event where you need specific planeswalkers to join. It just so happens that the 2 required are the 2 that are currently in the vault for sale for crystals. Crystals cost real world currency. I understand you may have saved up from in game bonuses to purchase but the hard truth is if you need em most likely you will need to pony up the cash.

Fact #3 - There are no random opponents in PVP. They have set an algorithm in place that purposely matches you against high level (read: decks that people have paid real $$ to obtain) players. When you "randomly" play the same 10 to 15 players each time with a smattering of other players thrown in, IS IT REALLY RANDOM? They do this so you, the player, get frustrated and do what? spend money so you can try to obtain that card you need to beat them. Odds are you will not get that card, sorry. Maybe they should be paying Merciside, Killwind and Brian1125 real world currency as those are the top 3 I, and I am sure, you, play against in pvp.

Fact #3A - The high end of the pve events keep getting harder to beat. Basically, they have access to all the cards and make a boss with a power that utilizes the strength of those cards to the beat advantage. Again, this is to frustrate you to spend more money.

Fact #4 - I have repeatedly given them suggestions to make the game more even. Things that game developers should be able to grasp and implement. BUT, they do not want an even field, where it is whomever has the better strategy wins. No, they want to keep you frustrated in the hopes you'll spend your money. It is basic psychology they are using against you.

Wake up! Smell the coffee. Even the people who have spent their hard earned cash with you are seeing through your schemes. If you do not change things, you have less than a year left before this game becomes obsolete. Which is SO UNFORTUNATE because if managed better it could be a veritable gold mine.

Nezumi

As promised with your 100 crystasls, I tried the event and completed all of my charges. The event was fine. The idea is novel. There is nothing wrong with the added challenge. However, everything is wrong with the payouts. The jewels trickle in and going 60/60 gives you 10 crystals back. It just felt like a waste of my time. The cost of entry / payout seems awful for the time put in. I rather play quick battles.

Why not change the entry from 60 crystals to 10,000 runes? For 10,000 runes, if I want to spend my time in the event, I can maybe earn 10 - 15 mana jewels (tweak this number however you want) and maybe if you go perfect, earn 10 crystals. That seems totally fair and provides a slight upside for people wanting to participate in the event.

As it stands, there is nothing worth spending crystals on after this update except for planeswalkers. I understand you want a crystal dump, but this is not it.

I will not be playing this even again, especially not with my own crystals.

MTG_Mage

Did not like the event

Its quick battle with your opponent getting an advantage. Problem with the random opponent is you cant prep for it.

Since your restricted to one color of PW you can use the same one in multiple nodes, which makes you run out of potions.
My complaint about it is locking a PW in for each node...we are already restricted to a few choices so using the same PW over and over again is boring and repetitious. Keep the color restriction but DO NOT lock a certain PW to each node and allow a PW choice each time a node is used.

Rewards are so small its not worth my time. It is literally better to just do QB.
Lower the entry cost and make the first level of reward more than entry cost.
Mana jewels should be at least 10/15/20/25 for the tiers AND the cost of the elite packs need to be dropped from 400 to somewhere between 200-300 AND only have masterpiece cards in them!
Truthfully the masterpiece cards are no better than the better chase mythics, so they should not be valued so high.

Yawgmoths_Left_Ilium

I tried out the event, and here's my feedback.

Is it a good event idea: Yes
Was it fun? Sort-of
How did I do? Ran a Kiora-Baral for all the nodes... you tell me
Would I play it again? Not a chance

I like the idea of the event overall, having an opponent that gets tougher as you progress. But, like other people have commented, I faced the same opponents more than once across several different nodes. However, one thing I will mention that I haven't seen mentioned before about this event: I only seemed to have faced PWs associated with this event. So thank you for that.

For me however, it boils down to the cost to enter. I refuse to pay 60 for 1 uncommon, 4 commons, and 10 (my rewards from this event). Yes, you do get from this event, but so what? The payout is so small I'd rather take my shot at getting Masterwork cards from KLD pack than paying 60 every single weekday... and that's assuming I have the time in the day to actually do 12 battles for a shot at the crystals.

In answer to the Devs unspoken rebuttal... yes, I got a KLD booster from it worth 60 . No, it did not even out. Why is that when clearly on paper, 60 = 1 booster = 60 ? The reality is in the previous paragraph, and this is why players rarely purchase single boosters. It's not worth it. The rate of draw for a useful card is so low that it makes absolutely no sense to purchase a single booster. Instead, we would save up for 15x. In the Devs minds, the equality is above: 1 Booster = 60 . For the players, 1 booster = 40 + a guaranteed rare/mythic for every 15 boosters bought. While this new update wiped the bulk booster discount, at the incentive of an extra rare, the perceived cost to the player did not, and will not change overnight.

So, let's say I play this every day of the week. I've now spent the equivalent of a Super Pack on the events... which should net me 5x boosters + a rare. However, I've lost the guaranteed rare/mythic/masterpiece (assuming KLD) by choosing to obtain the booster packs separately via this event. Supposedly what I've gained is a CHANCE to earn crystals for an epic pack, which, if I do enough of these, I will eventually get to redeem for a CHANCE to get a masterpiece card. But I'm not going to go into this here. It's been brought up too many other places on the forum between today and yesterday for me to rehash the thoughts I share with everyone else on the implementation of this new currency.

So no, I won't be playing this event again, even though I like the concept. And no, decreasing the cost to 40 will not get me to start playing these either. Honestly, I would suggest removing the entry fee altogether, even if it means replacing the booster reward with something else. I think it would be a great daily way to earn some of these new crystals. But as it stands... I'm done with this event.