Update on the Trial of the Planes Event (3/9/17)

LakeStone

Hi Everyone -

We are plowing through the overwhelmingly negative feedback coming in based on the Trials of the Planes event. We hear your complaints about the rewards and maybe should have taken a little more time to explain some things from the outset. Please read to the bottom!!!

For starters, Masterpiece cards are the most valuable cards in the game, and we have made them a rare commodity, both to give our most advanced players something new to play with, but also to keep them from introducing power creep that will make the game harder for beginners. They should be the furthest thing from common and earning Mana Jewels to get boosters from the Masterpiece Collection is something that will take players some time.

There are other ways to get Masterpiece cards and other ways to earn Mana Jewels, but we want them both to be something that is earned over time and encourages people to play in various events.

Some people are upset that there are better rewards to be earned in the higher tiers, but for the same entry price. We did intend the initial rewards to offset the cost of entry, but we know that for a lot of you these boosters are offering a lot of dupes. We are working on a solution to duplicates to give them added value in the future! We try to balance the rewards to be relevant to those tiers of play. Those in Platinum have put in a lot of time to earn those higher rewards and we want to honor those players. On top of that, the higher rewards are intended to allow them better access to cards that are relevant to their level of play.

If you’re one of those electing to stay in lower tiers with really powerful decks, thus making it harder for new players to compete, we do hope this will encourage you to take the step into your next tier.

Also, please keep in mind this is our first shot at this type of event and we will be evaluating the amount of Mana Jewels players are earning after this event. In an Activity Hub message in-game that will go out before the event starts, you will receive 100 Mana Crystals to try out this event. So please take this 100 Mana Crystals, use it to try the event out, and give us your thoughts here on the forums so we can improve it.

We appreciate all the feedback you have provided and even though we are unable to respond to each message, please be sure to know the team is reviewing the feedback to make a fun game experience for everyone.

wereotter

LakeStone wrote:

Also, please keep in mind this is our first shot at this type of event and we will be evaluating the amount of Mana Jewels players are earning after this event. In an Activity Hub message in-game that will go out before the event starts, you will receive 100 Mana Crystals to try out this event. So please take this 100 Mana Crystals, use it to try the event out, and give us your thoughts here on the forums so we can improve it.

I think someone goofed. We were all sent 100 Mana Jewels, not crystals, so unfortunately this won't help us enter and evaluate the event.

Alve

Have you considered perhaps charging players from lower tiers less? 60 crystals for 3 jewels in Bronze is, uh, a bit much. Bronze players don't have that many crystals to spare - they earn less from events - and they need them more. Players in higher tiers could pay more, depending on a tier, but get more jewels. You could also charge us runes - less for newer players, more for the rest of us. At least we can control how many runes we grind, while crystals are a bit difficult to come by and we already use them to pay for almost everything. Directly exchanging an outrageous amount of runes to mana jewels wouldn't be bad either. 1k runes per one jewel would still be better than having a milion runes sitting around and would encourage us to get more involved in QB and all other aspects of the game.

LakeStone

wereotter wrote:

LakeStone wrote:

Also, please keep in mind this is our first shot at this type of event and we will be evaluating the amount of Mana Jewels players are earning after this event. In an Activity Hub message in-game that will go out before the event starts, you will receive 100 Mana Crystals to try out this event. So please take this 100 Mana Crystals, use it to try the event out, and give us your thoughts here on the forums so we can improve it.

I think someone goofed. We were all sent 100 Mana Jewels, not crystals, so unfortunately this won't help us enter and evaluate the event.

We will also be sending 100 Mana Crystals before the event in addition to the 100 Mana Jewels you received today. I should have mentioned that in our note.

Mainloop25

Yeah you should have....

Mainloop25

Alve wrote:

Directly exchanging an outrageous amount of runes to mana jewels wouldn't be bad either. 1k runes per one jewel would still be better than having a milion runes sitting around and would encourage us to get more involved in QB and all other aspects of the game.

An excellent idea. I'm getting near close to a million runes that I can't do much with after I level up Saheeli next week. This will give me an incentive to grind in QB again.

Falizar

Try having 3235599 runes and not a thing to do with them lol

MightyKrakyn

Thank you for attempting to adress the negative feedback arising from this update, but I feel you are once again overlooking the core of our issues to focus on surface details.

At the core of our issues is that we feel betrayed by this event and the entire update as a whole. It does not seem like a simple mismanagement of earned and spent commodities. It seems like an intentional manipulation to devalue our currency. That along with the increased prices of packs by card volume, the increased cost of bundles by all measurements, the cost to enter events now, and the already apparent decrease in value of rewards during events makes the goal seem really clear. Oath of the Gatewatch has less crystals and a couple more boosters along with a basic booster.

I do not think that the people at Hibernum are idiots. I think you KNOW that a basic booster and regular boosters are worth a lot less than crystals. What I don't think you anticipated is that we would so readily understand that too. I don't think you anticipated that we would see every single one of these features as the hostile action toward your player base that we see it as. We want you to work with us instead of against us. We want to give you money for things that are worth money. If you lowered prices and increased rewards, you'd make far more money. I've spent thousands on this game, and I'm not spending anymore in this economic climate where one group is a wolf and the other is sheep. What does that tell you? It's not that I've lost my disposable income all of a sudden. It's that you're doing something to drive me away.

THEMAGICkMAN

How to fix this event:

Take away the fee to enter
Increase the mana jewel rewards.

Now you have an amazing and fun event!

Brigby

Mainloop25 wrote:

Yeah you should have....

Please show some consideration. Lakestone usually handles all the difficult, back-end details (which quite frankly, can be tedious and boring, but needs to be done for stuff like the forum or social to exist), but he wanted to take the time to bring some clarity and communication to the community in order to help answer some of the players' concerns. There was no need for that quip.

MightyKrakyn wrote:

Thank you for attempting to adress the negative feedback arising from this update, but I feel you are once again overlooking the core of our issues to focus on surface details.
-snip because long-

I think if there is anything to take away from this, it's the second-to-last section of the post. This is our first shot at this type of event, and it may need fine tuning. Some things we may hit the mark, and some things we may miss completely. Having said that though, we value your feedback, which is why we are giving out the 100 Mana Crystals so players can give it a free try. Let us know what you think after completing an event!

Like you said, let's work together. Let's combine our efforts into figuring out what is successful, and what falls short.

trashbear

LakeStone wrote:

We are working on a solution to duplicates to give them added value in the future!

Thanks for taking the time to respond to our concerns. Can you please give us more information on how this will be implemented? Some players have not converted their duplicates while others have intentionally or accidentally converted their duplicates to runes. Any solution that advantages one set of players over the other set of players would not be well received.

I always convert my duplicates because I can't stand the convert button cluttering up the UI. If after this solution is implemented other players' saved duplicates will be converted to another non-rune currency giving them an advantage I will be quite upset. I can also understand if players who saved their duplicates had them all converted to runes automatically before the transition that they would be quite upset.

AgainstOne

I agree with Krakyn. This feels like a hostile action levied by the developers against the player base.

I was sooo excited for this update. After it has arrived, all I feel like doing now is quitting the game.

I have spent over $300 on this game and have been getting pretty bummed that all I ever get is dupes from packs. I saved up almost 1800 crystals after reading the announcement of this update and how drop rates would be better and duplicates would be less. I immediately bought 4 premium packs for 1200 crystals. No mythics, no masterpieces. Just 7 rares that I already have (and I only have 43 out of the 59 currently non-exclusive, pack-obtainable rares).

This update is just more of the same, except with the added bonus of the huge nerf to event rewards. Thanks, but no thanks.

andrewvanmarle

I'm glad yo are monitoring the feedback, i hope it gives an incentive to rethink the jewels and event thing

For starters: the rotation is 2 weeks, but how can we earn 400 jewels in 2 weeks?

If you value the masterpiece cards so much then dont bunch them with mythics, sell them separatly or decrease the price to calculate the 70% chance you won't get a Masterpiece.

With premium pack it should be made impossible to get a dupe, plain and simple.

Decreas the price of the event for gold silver bronze to reflect the reward

And please please recalculate the amount of gems, perfect games, time and money is involved

Lagartha

I think what's frustrating most of us is that, while we still appreciate it, you guys are only addressing the surface issues.

It's not only about the event costing more than we believe it will be worth.. it's about the change in card packs. The increased cost of planes walkers. It's fairly blatant that you guys are making this game more and more expensive with each update and driving away VERY dedicated players.

They've gone rampant with inflation and are more concerned with adding new content than fixing what's broken. You claimed you tweaked the formula so we would be less likely to get dupes and from the packs that I opened today, that seems like a blatant lie. (One big box had only two rares and they were the exact same card.)

I get that there's a lot that goes in to developing a game like this that none of us have any clue about, but we're telling you what would make us happy and for the most part, feeling ignored.

Flg03

trashbear wrote:

LakeStone wrote:

We are working on a solution to duplicates to give them added value in the future!

Thanks for taking the time to respond to our concerns. Can you please give us more information on how this will be implemented? Some players have not converted their duplicates while others have intentionally or accidentally converted their duplicates to runes. Any solution that advantages one set of players over the other set of players would not be well received.

I always convert my duplicates because I can't stand the convert button cluttering up the UI. If after this solution is implemented other players' saved duplicates will be converted to another non-rune currency giving them an advantage I will be quite upset. I can also understand if players who saved their duplicates had them all converted to runes automatically before the transition that they would be quite upset.

Yes, me too! I hate the top card in my card list being covered by the convert duplicates button so I always convert. Will be sorely annoyed if I lose out because of this.

SpaceDuck

If what you are saying is true then the (main) problem is with the Masterpiece Collection Packs. They need to have ONLY the masterpiece chase cards in them.

Having to grind for 4-8 weeks for a guaranteed masterpiece makes sense and will keep these powerful cards special. Diluting those packs with regular and potentially duplicate mythics makes the value proposition terrible at 400 mana jewels. With only masterpiece cards the price is on the high side, but acceptable.

The current pack design works better at 100-150 mana jewels and would be good for very active players to grind for to help strengthen their collection and advance to higher tiers. With regular daily wins and regular high event finishes, a non-guaranteed masterpiece pack is something that should be saved for every couple of weeks as a solution to the duplicate/RNG drought problem. Heck, even if you took the masterpiece cards out entirely and just made it 8 playable mythics they would be priced right.

Having mana jewels act as a "passive" currency that is earned slowly over time for mythics is a great idea and really good design for a game where events and dailies are the cornerstone of fun. The problem is that the current price and value of mana jewels is good for no one.

tl;dr

400 Mana Jewels is appropriate for a masterpiece only pack with a 3 card pool.

A pack that is not guaranteed to have a masterpiece is worth far, far less. You also have an opportunity here for a mythic only version.

Doing this on the same day that prices were increased on exclusive mythic bundles and you made card packs a worse value for customers was bad timing.

DumasAG

The solution to dupes will almost have to be a secondary use for runes. Too many people have melted their dupes for there to be any other way forward at this point.

I'm worried that your response seems to be, "we hear the feedback, and we're not perfect. But here are crystals, try the event and tell us what you think!"

Ok, I'll try the event. It's a fun event. The idea behind it is great. Many people have said we like the idea of the events. Many people have said they would gladly pay to play in these events. But that doesn't change the issue, which is that it is a TERRIBLE WASTE OF RESOURCES to play in this event. And now, buying packs is a bad use of resources.

Don't wan't to buy packs, don't want to play in the new events, so what do we do with our time now? I suppose play in the old events for diminished rewards, while feeling resentful and refusing to spend more money.

The best solution I have yet seen is to use runes for entry. Doesn't even matter if it's a high rate. 20-30K runes to enter, one entry per day. There, the dupe problem, the event problem, the reward problem, all solved. And we all feel appreciative so we start buying things again.

Of course, if you'd lower things in the vault to $5-$12, I'd buy a hell of a lot more...

madwren

LakeStone wrote:

Those in Platinum have put in a lot of time to earn those higher rewards and we want to honor those players. On top of that, the higher rewards are intended to allow them better access to cards that are relevant to their level of play.

If you’re one of those electing to stay in lower tiers with really powerful decks, thus making it harder for new players to compete, we do hope this will encourage you to take the step into your next tier.

Many people are aware of potential problems with flooding the lower tiers with high-powered cards. Likewise, I think many people appreciate that you earn better cards as you move up in collection and level.

The problem, however, is one of SCALE. Making the game accessible to lower tiers is important. They are continually forced to complete the same objectives for lesser rewards, while having lesser collections. Now, you're repeating the same mistake by charging them the same admission price while simultaneously making it a MUCH worse investment for them long-term. That doesn't inspire people to work towards it, it inspires people to say "oh, guess that's not for me."

There is not a problem providing them with lower rewards. However, concurrent with that should be lower entry fees, easier play, and scaled coalition ribbons. The challenge--and reward--should improve as you level and build your collection. There should be an attendant progression in both challenge and reward. Both. You can't just scale the reward component. And, now that there's "entry fees", that should also scale.

You're assuming that implementing a system to encourage people to move to a higher tier somehow offsets the disadvantages suffered by general lower-tier players. If you encourage 100 people to move up to platinum while disadvantaging 5000, is that really worth it? No.

aenigmaeffect

SpaceDuck wrote:

If what you are saying is true then the (main) problem is with the Masterpiece Collection Packs. They need to have ONLY the masterpiece chase cards in them.

Having to grind for 4-8 weeks for a guaranteed masterpiece makes sense and will keep these powerful cards special. Diluting those packs with regular and potentially duplicate mythics makes the value proposition terrible at 400 mana jewels. With only masterpiece cards the price is on the high side, but acceptable.

The current pack design works better at 100-150 mana jewels and would be good for very active players to grind for to help strengthen their collection and advance to higher tiers. With regular daily wins and regular high event finishes, a non-guaranteed masterpiece pack is something that should be saved for every couple of weeks as a solution to the duplicate/RNG drought problem. Heck, even if you took the masterpiece cards out entirely and just made it 8 playable mythics they would be priced right.

Having mana jewels act as a "passive" currency that is earned slowly over time for mythics is a great idea and really good design for a game where events and dailies are the cornerstone of fun. The problem is that the current price and value of mana jewels is good for no one.

tl;dr

400 Mana Jewels is appropriate for a masterpiece only pack with a 3 card pool.

A pack that is not guaranteed to have a masterpiece is worth far, far less. You also have an opportunity here for a mythic only version.

Doing this on the same day that prices were increased on exclusive mythic bundles and you made card packs a worse value for customers was bad timing.

Well said. In terms of actual $$$, the cost jump feels about right also (~$30 for Mythic, ~$100 for Masterpiece).

I really hope they make a Mythic, minimal/no chance for Masterpiece pack cheaper, (ie. ~100 - 150 Jewels), and a separate Masterpiece pack. That would be understandable.

Alve

aenigmaeffect wrote:

In terms of actual $$$, the cost jump feels about right also (~$30 for Mythic, ~$100 for Masterpiece).

Is $100 really a reasonable price for a bunch of pixels? I'm trying to think of all the things I could buy for a hundred bucks and, well, there are a lot of them. Most of them also won't become obsolete in a few weeks.

If we can just outright pay a hundred dollars for a guaranteed Masterpiece, we're getting dangerously close to p2w/mega-whaling territory. While I understand that so-called 'whales' are the main source of revenue in 'free-to-play' games, they need a good community to thrive. Nobody will sink a few thousands dollars into a game that they play alone.

I agree that jewels could be earned slowly and perhaps even added to some premium bundles, but the current model - players being able to obtain what will take an average Bronze players a hundred perfect events and at least 5k crystals to earn in one go, as long as they're willing to drop a hundred bucks, is a bit too much. Perhaps add a few dozen jewels (30?) to new purchases, not 150?

MightyKrakyn

Brigby wrote:

MightyKrakyn wrote:

Thank you for attempting to adress the negative feedback arising from this update, but I feel you are once again overlooking the core of our issues to focus on surface details.
-snip because long-

I think if there is anything to take away from this, it's the second-to-last section of the post. This is our first shot at this type of event, and it may need fine tuning. Some things we may hit the mark, and some things we may miss completely. Having said that though, we value your feedback, which is why we are giving out the 100 Mana Crystals so players can give it a free try. Let us know what you think after completing an event!

Like you said, let's work together. Let's combine our efforts into figuring out what is successful, and what falls short.

I'm sure that is what you feel like taking away. Again, it feels like the complaint portion was ignored. You don't understand that you feel like an adversary right now, do you?

A free try feels like a distraction, like a free gift to sign up with a savings account with no protections. A snip to my post and focusing only on the part where I'm trying to preserve any goodwill feels like an insult. If you want us to work together, you NEED TO LOOK DEEPER. We as players feel devalued with this update. Not just in general, but by Hibernum. We feel like we were lied to and taken advantage of. If you want me to give you constructive advice, I will.

If you look at an economic situation and see that you're clearly getting the better deal, you're doing wrong by us. It should be ambiguous who's better off because we're both getting such great values.