Progression for Strange Sights is higher than normal!

The Herald

I've done my 4 clears normal/2 clears wave and I don't have final progression.

Last time that happened, it was because wave nodes were set at 4 full point clears instead of being 2 clears (when their points start degrading).

Any word on what has happened here?

tanis3303

Math is hard?

Quebbster

I suspect the dev's model takes into account that Points increase in later subs. That didn't happen here, so the model may be off a bit.

Jam_Adams

that would be fine if they hadn't set the target at a reasonable number the first time. what changed since then?

broll

I'm not in the final sub, but typically if I take the point for 4 clears of the previous sub and add another 30% that gives me a good estimate. Based on that estimate 4 clears in this event will only give you 55,800ish progression is 67,000. In a typical even the 4 clears number is just slightly under progressions (examples: 46,685|47,000 & 43,505|44,000). Seems like they messed up the progression numbers here. I at first thought the boss might make up the difference, but he only gives 200...

Jam_Adams

what was the event a few months back (iirc a 7-day event) that maxprog was screwed up (like 152k), but they gave prog rewards if you got what prog was supposed to have been (like 115k or something). one of the ones with a bunch of wave nodes - enemy of the state???

point being, I hope that happens again bc there's no way I will get max prog here

broll

Jam_Adams wrote:

what was the event a few months back (iirc a 7-day event) that maxprog was screwed up (like 152k), but they gave prog rewards if you got what prog was supposed to have been (like 115k or something). one of the ones with a bunch of wave nodes - enemy of the state???

point being, I hope that happens again bc there's no way I will get max prog here

I have the same hope. Though for that event I grinded up to max prog anyway so I felt kinda silly wasting the effort. I can't remember if they gave the rewards even to people who did it the overly high max or not.

GrumpySmurf1002

The Herald wrote:

I've done my 4 clears normal/2 clears wave and I don't have final progression.

Last time that happened, it was because wave nodes were set at 4 full point clears instead of being 2 clears (when their points start degrading).

Any word on what has happened here?

Because they said then and would probably say now, it's 4 clears on all nodes.

First time they were (erroneously) set at 4 full point clears. They should be set now at 2 full + 2 degenerating for the waves.

DesertTortoise

I posted this in the subreddit:

I'm slice 1. For the first two days I did 4 (2 for wave nodes) clears in the morning, cleared my 5th and 6th (3rd and 4th for wave nodes) clear at night. Not trying to optimize since I didn't feel like waking up early and I didn't do a 7th clear for either.

I just finished my 4/2 clears of each node for day 3 and I'm at 70,188, just 3K clear of max progress. There is no way that someone doing just 4 clears for regular and 2 for wave nodes hits progression the way they're supposed to. It looks like last time this event ran, the max progression was 50K points so I'm not sure why they added 17K more points.

Vhailorx

It appears that demi forgot to update the pregression rewards to account for wave nodes. So max progression is set at 4/6 on standard nodes, but 4/4 on wave nodes.

Adjust your grinds accordingly.

Additional note: in the past, demi has awarded compensation for this mistake by retroactively calculating the "correct" progression scores, and then giving rewards to everyone that hit those scores. This is unfortunate because players are forced to play against a hidden scoreboard, and punished for making rational time-allocation decisions with the information available to them.

Brigby: can you please provide information to players as quickly as possible about the availability of compensation for this event. And the method by which any compensation will be calculated?

SummerGlau

I'm about 9500 Short so yeah it's the "Enemy of the State" wave node thing again just on a smaller scale
don't think I can make it up in one sub

mpqr7

If they're going to adjust and give out 15 cp for those who tried but didn't hit it, then please please please please tell us what the actual cut-off is this time!!!!!

Don't leave us out to dry and then wonder what it would have taken to get it!!

I was very unhappy that they did that last time, and as a result, I didn't get it.

GrumpySmurf1002

Vhailorx wrote:

It appears that demi forgot to update the pregression rewards to account for wave nodes. So max progression is set at 4/6 on standard nodes, but 4/4 on wave nodes.

Adjust your grinds accordingly.

Additional note: in the past, demi has awarded compensation for this mistake by retroactively calculating the "correct" progression scores, and then giving rewards to everyone that hit those scores. This is unfortunate because players are forced to play against a hidden scoreboard, and punished for making rational time-allocation decisions with the information available to them.

Brigby: can you please provide information to players as quickly as possible about the availability of compensation for this event. And the method by which any compensation will be calculated?

There won't be compensation because this isn't a mistake (in their minds). They've specifically said 4 clears, all nodes. People keep assuming it's 2 on waves but it's not true.

Brigby

Hey Everyone. Sorry about the confusion regarding max progression. I'll reach out to the developers to see what's going on, and how it'll be addressed.

deadtaco

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

There won't be compensation because this isn't a mistake (in their minds). They've specifically said 4 clears, all nodes. People keep assuming it's 2 on waves but it's not true.

They have said this since the last time when they admitted a mistake was made, compensated people and adjusted for the next wave bearing event?

Assuming you know you can not get full point clears on wave nodes past 2 clears.

GrumpySmurf1002

Time to do the math:

Publically assumed method:

First sub:
Repeatable, single opponents: 2080 * 4 = 8320
Wave nodes 1858 * 2 = 3716
Single node: 310
Essential node: 300

That sums to 12546
2nd sub = 1.5 * 1st sub = 18819
3rd sub = 2 * 1st sub = 25092

Total = 56457. Clearly short of goal, even factoring in the 100pt unlock nodes and Kaecilus

Devs stated method:
Repeatable, single opponents: 2080 * 4 = 8320
Wave nodes = 1858*2 + 2/3*1858 + 1/3*1858 = 5574
Single node: 310
Essential node: 200 + 2/3 * 200 + 1/3 * 200 + 1 = 401

That sums to 14605
2nd sub = 1.5 * 1st sub = 21907.5 = 21908
3rd sub = 2 * 1st sub = 29210

Total = 65722.5. 1277.5 short of progression. Now, add in the 400 in unlock nodes and Kaecilus @ 200*3 , and you're at 66722.5, 277.5 short, which I'm guessing is a regen factor and/or rounding issue.

TL;DR It's 4 times, every node. Time to kill the myth that just the initial clear is sufficient when waves are involved.

GrumpySmurf1002

deadtaco wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

There won't be compensation because this isn't a mistake (in their minds). They've specifically said 4 clears, all nodes. People keep assuming it's 2 on waves but it's not true.

They have said this since the last time when they admitted a mistake was made, compensated people and adjusted for the next wave bearing event?

Assuming you know you can not get full point clears on wave nodes past 2 clears.

Yes, the 4 clears, all nodes thing was said after Strange Sights, before the subsequent EotS (where mind you people thought the mistake still existed, because they kept assuming it's 2 clears for waves).

The mistake they corrected was that they didn't account for deterioration the first time. Now they do. See math above.

The Herald

I must have missed the official announcement about having to do 4 clears on degrading nodes then, sorry.

Seems a bit inconsistent and terribly designed, but we're already talking about hidden rules and ways of playing the game that aren't explained to players anywhere at any point so I'm hardly surprised.

GrumpySmurf1002

The Herald wrote:

I must have missed the official announcement about having to do 4 clears on degrading nodes then, sorry.

Seems a bit inconsistent and terribly designed, but we're already talking about hidden rules and ways of playing the game that aren't explained to players anywhere at any point so I'm hardly surprised.

In fairness, I don't think it was ever 'officially' announced, but discussions with the devs after revealed that tidbit. I've been beating the drum for a while though because it seems this comes up now every event with waves involved.

I also don't think it's always been the case, but it's been the case since Strange Sights first ran. I do have alliance mates still insisting I'm wrong and they've hit progression with waves lately with x2. Next time HoD and EotS I'll make it a point to check the math on those.

"Guess the rules!" has been a trademark of the game for a while. This isn't much different.

Vhailorx

Grumpy, your Alculatipns (ha. Computations. Damn "autocorrect" was too good to erase though! ) are almost certaubly correct, but i still think you are wrong. Clearly demi/d3 are not quite on the same page with regard to the target level for max prog when wave nodes are included.

They have offered compensation in the past when similar issues occured. The player-base clearly believes that clearing everything until the timers start is sufficient for max prog (obviously not every single player, but players as a whole). So no matter what the correct answer is, sone feedback and/or compensation from the devs seems appropriate.

I had tought that they had already given a definitive statement that matched my understanding (start refresh timers on all repeatable nodes, get max prog), but you seem to think they said something different grumpy. Brigby, we await your input to end the debate!

(Ps. 4 times every node is stupid. Pve takes up enough time already. Why punish us with extra grinding for each wave node, which are each 2-6 times as long as a regular node)?

apmonte

Yea, I came to find out why I'm 10k short for full progression. The real problem here is that there's no consistency between events. Why is it so hard for the Devs to do simple math?