Forum Thread

Orion

Pongie wrote:

crackninja wrote:

This is exactly why I only open classics, and take whatever 5*'s I get. Sure the odds of getting a particular character/cover are small, but I don't see the fun in hoarding for a year just so that one day I will be able to champ a team of exactly 3 5*'s that I will then be stuck using exclusively forever.

You dont have to champ them if you dont want to. At least you will have 3x max covered 5* instead of all under covered 5*s.

But if you aren't going to champ them, then why pay the 25% premium for Latest? Just pull classics and grow your 4* stable. If you get 5*s, so be it.

Pongie

What's the drop rates in classic again? 1.66% for each compared to 5% in latest. Good luck obtaining max covers through classics

GurlBYE

Why champ 5's at all?

To get more legendary tokens for more potential 5's?

At this point selling a 5 star should feel like you've hit the top of the mountain, not a big deal, especially if you don't want to deal with scaling.

The powers scale ridiculously with covers, and any 5 you play can be replaced with your soft capped 5 and wreck house.

Once the 5 tier becomes as ridiculously diluted as 4, champ.

At this point we're getting closer and closer to legend 4's being the same percentage or LOWER than any given single 5 star from classic.

Vhailorx

GurlBYE wrote:

Why champ 5's at all?

To get more legendary tokens for more potential 5's?

At this point selling a 5 star should feel like you've hit the top of the mountain, not a big deal, especially if you don't want to deal with scaling.

The powers scale ridiculously with covers, and any 5 you play can be replaced with your soft capped 5 and wreck house.

Once the 5 tier becomes as ridiculously diluted as 4, champ.

At this point we're getting closer and closer to legend 4's being the same percentage or LOWER than any given single 5 star from classic.

5* powers don't scale directly with covers nearly as much as is the case with the lower tiers. 5* powers scale with levels, and levels do in turn only unlock with covers, but the leveling curve is quite a bit different. (note that this is not true of powers with non-damage or healing effects. Pheonix purple or IM46 blue DO require covers to be maximally effective because the number of tiles they convert only goes up with covers).

j0nats

Im loving this thread cos i guess im also in the 4 to 5* transition, though not as advanced as you.

My 5s are
Surfer 11covers
Oml 10covers
Phx 8covers
Cap IM Widow 6 covers
gg 4 covers
Banner Thanos Bolt 1cover ea.
Strange 0

16champed 4*s
All 3s champed xcept thanos
2* farm completed

My strategy currently is to hard at least 15 pulls.. using CP for classics and LTs for latest legends.

It breaks my heart sometimes to be selling so many dupe 4 covers, or being forced to champ lower tiered chars (yay Elektra!!! And Kingpin - who will at least rock with Rulk on Nefarious Foes) However i seem to luck at least 1 5* per set of pulls, max 3 5* covers.

This method makes me feel some progress.. i do realize t b at ill be in this stage for quite a while... but its ok coz 1.2k is definitely attainable with max 4s, a good alliance for TUs and hp from placement, and a good #chk room for hopping from 900-1.2 (around 3 -4 hops).

My mantra is im a 4* transitioner... embrace it!

ClydeFrog76

I've got a sum total of 3 4* champs:

Nick Fury 274
XFW 272
Thoress 270

My OML is 3/0/1. I'll be getting that sweet sweet yellow cover at day 1095 in 47 days and I fully intend to level him as high as possible as soon as possible. Not sure if that makes me a fool or not, but from what I've been reading it shouldn't affect my scaling *that* much and I know he'll help me in both PVE and PVP.

And hey, I just really freakin' love the character.

spghttihead

I've got 20+ 4s champed and ended up champing my OML and PHX. I regret it. They're the only characters I can play with in most situations. Such a bummer! I wanted to play with Pun MAX for so long. By the time I had champed him I already had OML and PHX and he was no longer viable. Keep them at 360-370 unless you want to play exclusively with them.

Polares

Some considerations I wanted to add.

It is very important to also get A LOT of champion levels for your top tier 4s. This is one of the problems we face when we decide to go latest LT. A 430 level Rhulk is much better than BBolt, yes MUCH BETTER, he has more life and he is much faster firing his 25k+ AoE. He doesn't have a 5 match damage so it is always good to use also a 5 in those teams, but top tier 4s are amazing at 430+ level. At 470 level 4s are CRAZILY GOOD.

So every 4 latest we open we lose one possible champion level

So I think it might be a viable option to go always with classic, don't worry about 5s at all, enjoy your play with your 4s, slowly very slowly build your 5s, level them to 360 but not more, and at the same time also build your top tier 4s champion levels (or hoard if you prefer, but I think hoarding for too long really makes your progression slower, there is also 4 dilution!).

Another thing I want to add, which is obviously trivial, is that the game is much more enjoyable when you have 6 championed 5s. Seriously, don't champ your 5s if you don't have at least 4 chars you can champ. Having to play with the same three, that were two most of the time, is really really boring. It also makes the game easier when you have more than one possible team and you can adapt to your enemies.

Vhailorx

Polares wrote:

Some considerations I wanted to add.

It is very important to also get A LOT of champion levels for your top tier 4s. This is one of the problems we face when we decide to go latest LT. A 430 level Rhulk is much better than BBolt, yes MUCH BETTER, he has more life and he is much faster firing his 25k+ AoE. He doesn't have a 5 match damage so it is always good to use also a 5 in those teams, but top tier 4s are amazing at 430+ level. At 470 level 4s are CRAZILY GOOD.

So every 4 latest we open we lose one possible champion level

So I think it might be a viable option to go always with classic, don't worry about 5s at all, enjoy your play with your 4s, slowly very slowly build your 5s, level them to 360 but not more, and at the same time also build your top tier 4s champion levels (or hoard if you prefer, but I think hoarding for too long really makes your progression slower, there is also 4 dilution!).

Another thing I want to add, which is obviously trivial, is that the game is much more enjoyable when you have 6 championed 5s. Seriously, don't champ your 5s if you don't have at least 4 chars you can champ. Having to play with the same three, that were two most of the time, is really really boring. It also makes the game easier when you have more than one possible team and you can adapt to your enemies.

Can i direct you, polares, to my "the problem with 5* scaling is mostly just lack of options" thread from the fall? Many of the issues that people have with the 5* game stem from the fact that scaling forces everyone to play their best characters, and if you only have two characters at the best level, then things will get dull and/or challenging.

Moreover, it is increasingly hard to max any 5* as the pool gets deeper, and it takes 60+ 4* champ levels to get them up to 5* strength. So there is really nothing one can do in the short or medium term to "solve" a oml/phoenix-only roster.

Ruinate

Also in a similar pickle. SS, Oml, Phx champed. Bssm and IM46 at 11 covers. No one else is close. Finishing Bssm and IM46 feels impossible. Abandoning those 2 and basically starting from scratch in Latest feels wrong. So here I am still pulling classics like a dummy getting nothing but Stupid Surfer as I watch people who pull from Latest lap me in 5* progression. Surfer now tanks teamups over my Oml. Argh. /quit

Jarvind

Orion wrote:

You can reach max progression in PvE with a 4* roster quite easily, and probably quicker than 5* teams can. Can you get to 1200 in PvP with just champed 4*s? Honest question, I have no idea.

Technically? Yes. But with winnable 50+ point matches being basically nonexistent after 900, it would probably take me 3-4 shields which isn't really worth the massive HP expenditure every event.

Vhailorx

Jarvind wrote:

Orion wrote:

You can reach max progression in PvE with a 4* roster quite easily, and probably quicker than 5* teams can. Can you get to 1200 in PvP with just champed 4*s? Honest question, I have no idea.

Technically? Yes. But with winnable 50+ point matches being basically nonexistent after 900, it would probably take me 3-4 shields which isn't really worth the massive HP expenditure every event.

Forget the hp, regular players can afford to spend several hundred hp for 15 cp twice or thrice a week. That's a decent value in this game's economy. The barrier for 1.2k for me is scheduling. Who wants to shape their life around stupid arbitrary shield cooldowns?

Even if i am only hopping twice to hit 1.2k, i then have to (1) wait 8 hours so i can protect my score after the hop, or (2) abandon pvp alliance play and stop protecting scores, or (3) pay for a 24 hour shield, or (4) ensure that i hit my target score on a final break, and hope i dont get terrible luck. I dont like any of those options. Shield cooldowns are huge inconvenience on players, and only exist as a bandaid for other, bigger problems in pvp (and to make us buy more 24 hour shields). They have always sucked, but it is now long LONG past time that demi found a better solution.

mpqr7

Jarvind wrote:

Orion wrote:

You can reach max progression in PvE with a 4* roster quite easily, and probably quicker than 5* teams can. Can you get to 1200 in PvP with just champed 4*s? Honest question, I have no idea.

Technically? Yes. But with winnable 50+ point matches being basically nonexistent after 900, it would probably take me 3-4 shields which isn't really worth the massive HP expenditure every event.

Thank you Jarvind for agreeing with the point I've been trying to make on these boards.

Yes, you can join a line group and spend all day searching for magic large queues and then hoping that you can beat them quickly enough to avoid suffering massive defensive losses, but:

1) It takes a lot of time and effort to find them
2) You might not win the matches, since they'll probably be against either grills (championed 5*s) or else highly leveled 4* and 5* teams
3) You might win the matches but then not get the large amount of points you had thought you'd be getting.
4) You might win the matches and get all the points but the also suffer massive defensive losses, especially as you get closer and closer to 1200. So basically doing a bunch of hops at around 1100, starting and finishing at 1100 (ie completely useless waste of stress and energy).

So it's definitely possible, and many people pull it off with ease, even with 4* or 5+4* rosters, but it's a lot of effort. And don't let anyone fool you into thinking that it's not ("oh, it's just like 1 hour rise plus three 3-minute hops").

Flume

Orion wrote:

Pongie wrote:

crackninja wrote:

This is exactly why I only open classics, and take whatever 5*'s I get. Sure the odds of getting a particular character/cover are small, but I don't see the fun in hoarding for a year just so that one day I will be able to champ a team of exactly 3 5*'s that I will then be stuck using exclusively forever.

You dont have to champ them if you dont want to. At least you will have 3x max covered 5* instead of all under covered 5*s.

But if you aren't going to champ them, then why pay the 25% premium for Latest? Just pull classics and grow your 4* stable. If you get 5*s, so be it.

This is exactly what I'm doing.
I don't see the value in fast tracking a few select 5* characters only and want to avoid paying the 20% cp tax.
Hoarding latest tokens to spend in a burst makes sense.
Spending cp on latests doesn't in my opinion.

Vhailorx

Flume wrote:

Orion wrote:

Pongie wrote:

crackninja wrote:

This is exactly why I only open classics, and take whatever 5*'s I get. Sure the odds of getting a particular character/cover are small, but I don't see the fun in hoarding for a year just so that one day I will be able to champ a team of exactly 3 5*'s that I will then be stuck using exclusively forever.

You dont have to champ them if you dont want to. At least you will have 3x max covered 5* instead of all under covered 5*s.

But if you aren't going to champ them, then why pay the 25% premium for Latest? Just pull classics and grow your 4* stable. If you get 5*s, so be it.

This is exactly what I'm doing.
I don't see the value in fast tracking a few select 5* characters only and want to avoid paying the 20% cp tax.
Hoarding latest tokens to spend in a burst makes sense.
Spending cp on latests doesn't in my opinion.

This where cost/benefit gets a bit murkier. It's better to hoard LTs until once can gey close to covering all 3 5*s available. But except for the one time that classic rates bumped up from 10 to 15%, it is generally better to open classics as soon as possible to minimize the price of dilution. So there is an inherent tension between the ideal LT and classic strategies.

And having decided that it makes sense to haord LTs, i think one can make an argument that it also makes sense to hoard cp to supplement any stockpile of LTs. This will reduce the overall hoarding time, and thus reduce roster stagnation during the hoarding phase. This is especially true for people with a higher perce tage of useless 4* covers; if 30+% of all 4* covers cannot be used, then opening classics may not be any more efficient than paying a premium for LTs. That's less of a problem now that iso rates have ticked up, but plenty of vets still have a handful or more 13/13 4*s underleveled.

And there is also tue complicating factor that cs is more likely yo swap out dupes for LTs than for classics.

I am not sure that there is an objectively right answer, but i can see reasonable arguments on both sides.

Flume

aesthetocyst wrote:

Flume wrote:

.... the 20% cp tax ...

... is a bargain compared to the far, FAR higher rate RNGesus charging over on Classics.

Covering characters is the thing in MPQ. Always has been. Every incomplete character is an albatross.

No cp tax on classics = more pulls = more 5* covers = more efficient endgame of all characters covered
Waste cp on latests = less pulls = more 5* covers from a select set of 3 = more efficient mid game of 1-3 characters covered

Vhailorx

But aesth, the debate isn't whether 1.2k is possible. Most everyone seems to agrree that 4* rosters can hit 1.2k when their champs are boosted. It's over how much of a hassle it is to do so.

As i explained earlier in the thread, i dont find the hassle to be worthwile for me. Others may feel differently (especially if they have almost all 4*s champed and can always field well paired teams of boosted champs).

Flume, you are ignoring the huge fact that CS currently fixes dupes pulled from LTs but (almost always) not from classics. That is almost certainly worth a 20% tax for those with several 5* powers at 5 covers on underleveled characters.

Quebbster

Flume wrote:

Orion wrote:

Pongie wrote:

crackninja wrote:

This is exactly why I only open classics, and take whatever 5*'s I get. Sure the odds of getting a particular character/cover are small, but I don't see the fun in hoarding for a year just so that one day I will be able to champ a team of exactly 3 5*'s that I will then be stuck using exclusively forever.

You dont have to champ them if you dont want to. At least you will have 3x max covered 5* instead of all under covered 5*s.

But if you aren't going to champ them, then why pay the 25% premium for Latest? Just pull classics and grow your 4* stable. If you get 5*s, so be it.

This is exactly what I'm doing.
I don't see the value in fast tracking a few select 5* characters only and want to avoid paying the 20% cp tax.
Hoarding latest tokens to spend in a burst makes sense.
Spending cp on latests doesn't in my opinion.

You need to take the quality of the characters into account. I have Phoenix and OML covered, and both Silver Surfer and Spiderman at 12 covers. All other fivestars are at six covers or less, so it will be a while Before any of them are finished. The problem is that I don't really see myself playing either one instead of Phoenix or OML in PVP - they just aren't scary enough to deter someone with a good Black Bolt or any of the other recent great fivestars. So I have decided to stockpile at least until Thanos is about to leave the Latest Legends tokens, then try to get several more recent fivestars completed in order to try to stay competitive. It may be a pipe Dream, but it seems like the most sensible way to proceed. When I have more champion fivestars I may try to go back to Classics and try to finish off Silver Surfer and Spiderman.

mpqr7

aesthetocyst wrote:

Will it only take an hour + 3 3-minute hops? No, more like 90-120min, followed by 10min every 3-8hrs as needed.

That's exactly it. For some people, that seems reasonable. But for others, it means an entire day of massive stressing about doing perfect hops for a game instead of focusing on things that presumably should matter more, such as career and family.

Also I have never, ever EVER been able to do a TEN MINUTE hop at 1100 points that doesn't result in me winning the battles and also losing hundreds of points.

I've had 3-minute hops where I still manage to go from 1180 points to 1150 points.

I would LOVE if the game allowed you to do 10-minute hops without fear of snipes. I think it's RIDICULOUS that it's not enough for you to beat extremely hard opponents, but that somehow you have to do it faster than the overpowered whales who are lazily rising up on your hard-earned points, when your team is a mere cc compared to their roster.

Fightmastermpq

Flume wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

Flume wrote:

.... the 20% cp tax ...

... is a bargain compared to the far, FAR higher rate RNGesus charging over on Classics.

Covering characters is the thing in MPQ. Always has been. Every incomplete character is an albatross.

No cp tax on classics = more pulls = more 5* covers = more efficient endgame of all characters covered
Waste cp on latests = less pulls = more 5* covers from a select set of 3 = more efficient mid game of 1-3 characters covered

There are a couple problems with this thinking. First, all characters covered is NOT the endgame. It just won't ever happen, no way you can gather CP fast enough unless you are willing to spend a ton. Due to dilution it will be faster to cover characters from latest pool than classics. Classics gets you champ levels on your first set of classics.

Second, champ levels on classics doesn't offer nearly the advantage that diversity in the tier does. Think about it - what would you rather have a 450 SS/OML/PHX/Bolt/Widow/Strange, or a 460 SS/OML/PHX? Or how about 450 SS/OML/PHX/BSS/GG/IM/Bolt/Widow/Strange v. 470 SS/OML/PHX? Anyone with 2 champed 5s can take out 470s easily enough, 480s do start to be a bit of a struggle, but still doable if the points are there, and 490-500 starts to get into skip territory unless you have hard counters. In PvE your scaling gets crazier and you are still locked in to the slower SS/OML/PHX teams.

I think the best advice for the vast majority of players is to plan for whatever gets you to the largest number of champed 5*s as soon as you can.....and due to dilution that means most of us should be hoarding Latest pulls.