Those that wanted the end of cakes...

Yakuzer

Someone in an earlier reply made a very good point. To determine what are the best changes to make, you have to have a mission statement. I would say, the goal should be to create an enjoyable, competitive and challenging playing environment that allows players to progress their rosters in accordance with both time and resources invested, as well as some degree of risk taken.

Here are some changes I believe could be beneficial to that end, many of which have been suggested previously:

Limit players from entering an event any more than 1 (or 2) levels below their current CL.

Within an event, you can only see targets that are 1 or 2 CL above or below the CL you selected for the event.

Points off for losses should be adjusted based on a combination of difference in score as well as opponents' team strength, so fewer points are lost for losses to stronger teams.

Overall decrease in damage from losses, considering that multiple people can target you while you can only fight one match at a time.

Significant increase in the difference in awards between CLs, so that there is more incentive to play at your CL and not "play down".

Put 1 or 2 additional progress awards between 900 and 1200.

Divide all 5* into sets of 3, and you can choose to purchase LTs within sets. The overall chance of a 5* draw will remain the same, but you know that if you pull a 5* it will be within that set. This will allow more average players to reasonably build 5* through consistent play.

Thoughts?

DrNitroman

Yakuzer wrote:

Someone in an earlier reply made a very good point. To determine what are the best changes to make, you have to have a mission statement. I would say, the goal should be to create an enjoyable, competitive and challenging playing environment that allows players to progress their rosters in accordance with both time and resources invested, as well as some degree of risk taken.

I like this philosophy, Yakuzer.
We all need to remember, player and devs alike, that the goal should be to have an enjoyable playing environment!

mpqr7

I used to be able to hit 900 - 1000 points on my first hop, but then I made the mistake of leveling up my Ph to 405, and now I can barely score 700 to 900 points, even with multiple shield hops. I don't understand how there are no queues available, either early in the event or late in the event.

And yes, I leveled up my Ph because I wanted to feel like I was making some sort of progress and not doomed to only use OML as my one 5* forever!!! Silly me!!!! I didn't have the patience to wait 2-3 more years to try to win 13 non-duplicate covers!

It's very frustrating to do a lengthy battle that kills off all my team members and then find out that I was brutalized in seconds by someone with double-champed 5*s. So I can barely even hit 900, while the person who quickly smashed me goes on to get scores like this:

I don't mind that these people get high scores, but why do they need to take away so many points from me personally and others like me with much worse rosters than theirs, when I haven't even gotten close to reaching max progression? It's not right that it's so easy for them to get huge scores and basically impossible for me to get anywhere without suffering endless losses, even though my roster is good enough to win the battles.


I'm honestly not as upset when someone with a roster similar to mine beats me... at least I know that I presented a challenge to that person, so they deserved the points they stole from me.


It's not enough to win battles, you have to win them all in 1 minute or less!!! But you can't when your opponents are lv 455 OML + Boosted 4* or in that category! Well, tough!!!!!

Daiches

mpqr7 wrote:

I used to be able to hit 900 - 1000 points on my first hop, but then I made the mistake of leveling up my Ph to 405, and now I can barely score 700 to 900 points, even with multiple shield hops. I don't understand how there are no queues available, either early in the event or late in the event.

And yes, I leveled up my Ph because I wanted to feel like I was making some sort of progress and not doomed to only use OML as my one 5* forever!!! Silly me!!!! I didn't have the patience to wait 2-3 more years to try to win 13 non-duplicate covers!

It's very frustrating to do a lengthy battle that kills off all my team members and then find out that I was brutalized in seconds by someone with double-champed 5*s. So I can barely even hit 900, while the person who quickly smashed me goes on to get scores like this:

I don't mind that these people get high scores, but why do they need to take away so many points from me personally and others like me with much worse rosters than theirs, when I haven't even gotten close to reaching max progression? It's not right that it's so easy for them to get huge scores and basically impossible for me to get anywhere without suffering endless losses, even though my roster is good enough to win the battles.


I'm honestly not as upset when someone with a roster similar to mine beats me... at least I know that I presented a challenge to that person, so they deserved the points they stole from me.


It's not enough to win battles, you have to win them all in 1 minute or less!!! But you can't when your opponents are lv 455 OML + Boosted 4* or in that category! Well, tough!!!!!

Hey, that's my bracket! With the rewards I won I was able to fully cover Medusa finally. But to adress your point, there were plenty of Qs available. Qs you know exactly where to find. As addressed abundantly in your previous thread about pvp.

mpqr7

Daiches wrote:

Hey, that's my bracket! With the rewards I won I was able to fully cover Medusa finally. But to adress your point, there were plenty of Qs available. Qs you know exactly where to find. As addressed abundantly in your previous thread about pvp.

I could easily find those queues until I leveled up my Ph, and then they disappeared, only to be replaced by more massive snipes. I could always get to 900 - 1000 relatively easily, and now it's become a struggle to get past 700.

I get that it's "just how it is", but it simply doesn't make any sense. I can't be the only one confounded by the fact that the higher you level up your characters, the PVP game gets worse and worse (until you finally manage to champion two five-stars, presumably).

I only have a specific time I can do my main rise. That time is when I ride the train for my commute to work. Unfortunately I cannot ask my boss if I can show up later to work in order to have a better chance at getting a higher score. Nor do I want to get even less sleep by waking up earlier, in search of queues. Nor do I enjoy wasting massive amounts of HP on 24-hour shields for hops that occur the previous day. I'm pretty picky, I know!

Bowgentle

mpqr7 wrote:

Daiches wrote:

Hey, that's my bracket! With the rewards I won I was able to fully cover Medusa finally. But to adress your point, there were plenty of Qs available. Qs you know exactly where to find. As addressed abundantly in your previous thread about pvp.

I could easily find those queues until I leveled up my Ph, and then they disappeared, only to be replaced by more massive snipes. I could always get to 900 - 1000 relatively easily, and now it's become a struggle to get past 700.

I get that it's "just how it is", but it simply doesn't make any sense. I can't be the only one confounded by the fact that the higher you level up your characters, the PVP game gets worse and worse (until you finally manage to champion two five-stars, presumably).

I only have a specific time I can do my main rise. That time is when I ride the train for my commute to work. Unfortunately I cannot ask my boss if I can show up later to work in order to have a better chance at getting a higher score. Nor do I want to get even less sleep by waking up earlier, in search of queues. Nor do I enjoy wasting massive amounts of HP on 24-hour shields for hops that occur the previous day. I'm pretty picky, I know!

You're completely unrealistic.
If you can only play at ONE specific time of the day, and that time isn't lined up with the hopping schedule of the slice, 1200 isn't happening unless you have the roster to club seals from 1k to 1200.

Do yourself a favor and forget about 1200 for now.

And whatever made you think leveling a 10 cover Phoenix would make things easier?
A 300+ 4* buffs to 400, that is a lot scarier than a 405 Phoenix.

mpqr7

I can actually do 1200 and I did it successfully a few times recently with a 3/8/3/8/end break [following the advice that you and others gave me], but it's too much of a pain for me to do it more than once every few weeks.

I'm just surprised that it's become more difficult to even hit 900 in my first rise, which I could do easily until I leveled up my Ph. After 700 points, suddenly queues dropped to 30 points, while massive snipes amped up. Which again I get it, it's fine. There are better times to climb.

Anyway I can't wait to win another 5* in a few more months and level it up and then struggle to hit 575 points.

cyineedsn

mpqr7 wrote:

I can actually do 1200 and I did it successfully a few times recently with a 3/8/3/8/end break [following the advice that you and others gave me], but it's too much of a pain for me to do it more than once every few weeks.

I'm just surprised that it's become more difficult to even hit 900 in my first rise, which I could do easily until I leveled up my Ph. After 700 points, suddenly queues dropped to 30 points, while massive snipes amped up. Which again I get it, it's fine. There are better times to climb.

Anyway I can't wait to win another 5* in a few more months and level it up and then struggle to hit 575 points.

How many events has this been happening? There's a whole bunch of reasons why your climb might be harder beyond just the change in your roster. Was this early in the event? Late? Were there alot of high scorers in the slice? Were the high scorers hopping or were they all shielded? Has this been happening for weeks? Was it just this last event? Was it the off-season?

Tony_Foot

Ok this is the top 10 from my CL6 PVP as it finished.



Now can someone please explain to me in simple terms for this numpty to understand, why in the hell those scores are in CL6. Is this just a spoiling tactic spreading out to take wins and covers from others? The top 3 have multiple 13 covered 5* and a whole heap of max 4 stars. I don't understand the reasoning behind only one of them getting a medusa cover.

Dev's do you still think this is a non issue with players dropping down? Again, not hating the players, hating the system. Band those clearance levels or give these boys that pay your wages a proper reward to stay in their level.

mpqr7

cyineedsn wrote:

mpqr7 wrote:

I can actually do 1200 and I did it successfully a few times recently with a 3/8/3/8/end break [following the advice that you and others gave me], but it's too much of a pain for me to do it more than once every few weeks.

I'm just surprised that it's become more difficult to even hit 900 in my first rise, which I could do easily until I leveled up my Ph. After 700 points, suddenly queues dropped to 30 points, while massive snipes amped up. Which again I get it, it's fine. There are better times to climb.

Anyway I can't wait to win another 5* in a few more months and level it up and then struggle to hit 575 points.

How many events has this been happening? There's a whole bunch of reasons why your climb might be harder beyond just the change in your roster. Was this early in the event? Late? Were there alot of high scorers in the slice? Were the high scorers hopping or were they all shielded? Has this been happening for weeks? Was it just this last event? Was it the off-season?

How many events has this been happening?
- The last few events

Was this early in the event? Late?
- Late, around 5 hours before the end of the event. Presumably there should be a decent amount of queues then, but as I hit 600-700 points, I was suddenly around top 40 or better, with few higher queues available. Then I started seeing easier teams... and then I started receiving massive defensive losses.

Were there a lot of high scorers in the slice?
- As you can see in the screen shot, there were plenty of massively high scorers in the slice.

Were the high scorers hopping or were they all shielded?
- They were either shielded, or else they were still below me, shredding my low score to an even lower score. Or else they were also at around 700 points, as there were lots of very challenging queues available that were only around 30 points, ie not worth it for me to fight.

Has this been happening for weeks? Was it just this last event?
- Sometimes I can only hit 700, sometimes I can still hit 900, it depends on the event, whereas previously I could always hit at least 900, no matter what.

Was it the off-season?
- No. I certainly expect much lower scores in the off-season. I usually aim for 575+ on the offseason.

ejmus

Tony Foot wrote:

Ok this is the top 10 from my CL6 PVP as it finished.



Now can someone please explain to me in simple terms for this numpty to understand, why in the hell those scores are in CL6. Is this just a spoiling tactic spreading out to take wins and covers from others? The top 3 have multiple 13 covered 5* and a whole heap of max 4 stars. I don't understand the reasoning behind only one of them getting a medusa cover.

Dev's do you still think this is a non issue with players dropping down? Again, not hating the players, hating the system. Band those clearance levels or give these boys that pay your wages a proper reward to stay in their level.

Glad you showed me that. I was wondering if I could reliably get top 5 there, but no....

udonomefoo

ejmus wrote:

Tony Foot wrote:

Ok this is the top 10 from my CL6 PVP as it finished.

Now can someone please explain to me in simple terms for this numpty to understand, why in the hell those scores are in CL6. Is this just a spoiling tactic spreading out to take wins and covers from others? The top 3 have multiple 13 covered 5* and a whole heap of max 4 stars. I don't understand the reasoning behind only one of them getting a medusa cover.

Dev's do you still think this is a non issue with players dropping down? Again, not hating the players, hating the system. Band those clearance levels or give these boys that pay your wages a proper reward to stay in their level.

Glad you showed me that. I was wondering if I could reliably get top 5 there, but no....

I think the top players have spread out. For the first season and a half or so since CL8 opened, I could hit top 10 and sometimes top 5 pretty easily in CL7. Lately though, the scores have shot up. I think the top alliances got smart and assigned parts of the family to each CL.

Mr_Sinister

udonomefoo wrote:

ejmus wrote:

Tony Foot wrote:

Ok this is the top 10 from my CL6 PVP as it finished.

Now can someone please explain to me in simple terms for this numpty to understand, why in the hell those scores are in CL6. Is this just a spoiling tactic spreading out to take wins and covers from others? The top 3 have multiple 13 covered 5* and a whole heap of max 4 stars. I don't understand the reasoning behind only one of them getting a medusa cover.

Dev's do you still think this is a non issue with players dropping down? Again, not hating the players, hating the system. Band those clearance levels or give these boys that pay your wages a proper reward to stay in their level.

Glad you showed me that. I was wondering if I could reliably get top 5 there, but no....

I think the top players have spread out. For the first season and a half or so since CL8 opened, I could hit top 10 and sometimes top 5 pretty easily in CL7. Lately though, the scores have shot up. I think the top alliances got smart and assigned parts of the family to each CL.

And each season CL too

mohio

There are some legitimate reasons for a seasoned vet to show up in CL6, namely they don't have the 4* progression reward championed, so they would rather get an extra 3* cover than 1000 iso. The placement rewards are obviously worse, since you have to win your bracket to get the same rewards as t5 in CL7, but I can at least understand that tradeoff.

For MPQR, I have a level 452 PHX and a 435 OML I basically always use to climb in PVP. If I climb with 10+ hours left, I can often hit 1200+ before shielding. 10-5 hours out and I might need to shield 1000-1100 depending on if i can catch people hopping or not. Inside 5 hours and it's a war zone, I can usually climb to 900 without many hits but then i start getting destroyed by all the double champed + many levels late climbers. I know this is just one person's experience outside of your own, but I just wanted to highlight how much timing can effect your climb/final score.

p.s. for reference, I always play s5, which may skew towards late climbers, making those late climbs worse, and earlier climbs much easier. YMMV in other slices of course.

Hendross

Hendross wrote:

In case anyone thought my first photo evidence of the great divide was abnormal...

Hendross wrote:

More evidence...with 3hr to go in the same event.

The next event.

You may have guessed, everyone above me had 1 or more maxed 5-star.

This will be my last submission into evidence, the end of cupcakes has created a huge void between 900 and 1200, this time no one was in the 1100s, if this was the intent, it's working as designed.

SnowcaTT

Hendross wrote:

#10 blurred there totally looks like it starts with an S and ends with a TT. Hmmm....

I think part of it is folks push for what they want (and can get). 900 and stop for some, 1200 and stop for others. Like others have said, the 5cp is nice on the climb - I wish it would have been there when I couldn't hit 1200. It will get you to the 5*'s eventually (although maybe not since they keep adding covers into diluted pool and never add odds....); and the entire game is about not being able to hit all rewards until you have earned (or paid) the ability to do so. I basically never try for T5, don't have the roster to hang out there that long or the time to hop that often.

As others have mentioned - SCL is a solution but currently is a problem. It has been months since it has been expended...what is that "soon" in coming soon? I'm almost level 90 - the day SCL opened I (maxed at 65) had more than I need to this very day, and I'm basically ftp....-far- from an extreme earner of levels. Put in more SCL's, put in -much- better rewards that reach -much- farther down and your vets will all be going after those. SCL's could be great and actually lead to 4* transition! If the big rosters were getting them at T50 in SCL9, T25 in SCL8, and leaving the T5 to be fought over by the true 3*/4* transition rosters.

As for CC's and MMR - It is just strange where you can see them and who can eat them. To not accrue much anger, I won't say more about it than that. I still think MMR should be greatly expanded at all ranges, both up and down. I don't understand why teams -incredibly- higher than mine can see me simply because they decide to stomp little teams later on to make the PVP's more like LR's.

As for CC's and their blessing/curse - I still am a firm believer in the principle behind them, the front-runners are simply seeding the slices with more points for everyone, which (coincidentally?) makes more points for themselves. I'm sure you could get 4* only rosters to cc for 4*'s and 3* only to cc for 3*'s....the problem being MMR again, (some non-maxed) 5*'s can see 4* only rosters already, you don't want to be throwing out even weaker teams with that. And of course, 3*/4* aren't completely RNG-only progress, you can earn those covers eventually....which means you are out there fighting against the entire user-base and not the lucky/rich/patient few that have moved beyond that.

HaywireII

Hendross wrote:

Hendross wrote:

In case anyone thought my first photo evidence of the great divide was abnormal...

Hendross wrote:

More evidence...with 3hr to go in the same event.

The next event.

You may have guessed, everyone above me had 1 or more maxed 5-star.

This will be my last submission into evidence, the end of cupcakes has created a huge void between 900 and 1200, this time no one was in the 1100s, if this was the intent, it's working as designed.

I just pulled up my Weapon Tex-Mex that ended this morning and the score jumps from 1051 points for #14 to 1233 points for #13. Hmmm......

Vhailorx

Aesth is right that the scoring gap says a lot more about the prog table than anything else.

There are no 1100 scores because there is no incentive to be there. Those that spend time/resources getting to 1100 are certainly targeting 1.2k. Everyone else will hit 900 and then only get more points for placement if necessary (hence a handful in the 900-1050 range)

The problen us that only a very select group of players can have anything like an enjoyable pvp experience above 900 points.

4I players CAN hit 1.2kn but the experience is miserable.

dsds

Vhailorx wrote:

Aesth is right that the scoring gap says a lot more about the prog table than anything else.

There are no 1100 scores because there is no incentive to be there. Those that spend time/resources getting to 1100 are certainly targeting 1.2k. Everyone else will hit 900 and then only get more points for placement if necessary (hence a handful in the 900-1050 range)

The problen us that only a very select group of players can have anything like an enjoyable pvp experience above 900 points.

4I players CAN hit 1.2kn but the experience is miserable.

TBH. I think that was the intention to keep a certain percentage of people getting the top rewards. That gap ensures that as it becomes very hard to climb to 1200.

Tony_Foot

To stop what certain people getting what top rewards? I am getting far more CP now than I ever was, I would share how much but I'd rather not highlight it

I'm easily getting double I was before in cakes and it costs me nothing, the devs get nothing from me. I am a 3 star player trying hard to get 4* covers. They just won't drop for me, I saved 2+ million ISO with nothing to really spend it on. A couple of 4 stars came my way and it's been so long since I got another useful cover I'm almost at 2 million again!

I'd still rather have cakes and let me pick my cover rather than playing for free and getting the cp for a random cover.

If it was to stop people getting the 1300 from time to time and the cp well then they shouldn't have put it in pve and pvp low down because I am getting more cp than riding the cake train and it's guaranteed.