Those that wanted the end of cakes...

Tony_Foot

Now I know that cake thing was passionately debated at it's end, but I want to talk about how this new system is better for the player or Devs/Owners. The players argued that people were getting good scores and placement they shouldn't have and the Devs argued that the scoreboards were so top heavy that people would look at the scoreboard and give up.

They bought in CL levels which we all love.

This is my current CL6 scoreboard with a little time still to run.




I still think there are issues there that need to be addressed. The 'fix' did nothing to alter the scoring and the lack of leaving out a weak team only hurt the mid to lower player. The top players still do the co-ordination and who can blame them, it's perfect for them to increase the gap to the mid tier. The other issue is should players even myself at Level 67 be in clearance level 6 (I am in 6 because my 4* doesn't need that color). I badly need 4* covers but since the change I cannot hit them legit unless I have at least one boosted 4* that week. So from this season I have hit the 4* cover twice. I used to buy HP and hop on cakes. Now I have loads of HP that I don't use and I don't buy because even hopping in a non boosted week can't be done fast enough.

In short who has this new system better for? D3 must be missing out on a **** load of sales because it's not worth buying the HP, in fact hopping for a 3-4* player is barely worth it (unless it's your boosted week). I can't see the benefit for anyone other than those that can eat a 5* grill and I don't blame them for liking it or doing it! I do get better placement but that's got nothing to do with Cakes and everything to do with playing in a lower CL because I know I either cannot get or need the 4* cover.

carrion_pigeons

I don't care about baking. Baking is ultimately not the problem. The problem is that the game offers so little in the way of hints towards improving your play.

The few hundred players who dominate all the rankings benefit far more from simple ignorance among the masses than from abusing any particular system the devs decide to implement.

Akari

That bracket score looks familiar...

Scoring aside, this event was a little tilted towards CL6 having bigger rosters in it because CL6 offers 2x Thanos covers for progression instead of 1x Thanos and an IW which most people don't really want. Usually 6 scores will be quite a bit lower.

ZeiramMR

Guessing from context this is your Behold Thanos event? You never said in the original post.

TxMoose

killing baking changed nothing (or at least very little) for front runners. what it killed was the prolific trickle-down effect on the rest of the scores behind the front runners. and baking isn't completely dead. you just have to successfully take on a champed 5* now, so there's a minimum roster requirement to benefit now.

woopie

TxMoose wrote:

killing baking changed nothing (or at least very little) for front runners. what it killed was the prolific trickle-down effect on the rest of the scores behind the front runners. and baking isn't completely dead. you just have to successfully take on a champed 5* now, so there's a minimum roster requirement to benefit now.

Yup, killing baking wasn't to stop absurd scores at the top. It was to reduce the CP flow to the middle/bottom

Ezrius

carrion pigeons wrote:

I don't care about baking. Baking is ultimately not the problem. The problem is that the game offers so little in the way of hints towards improving your play.

The few hundred players who dominate all the rankings benefit far more from simple ignorance among the masses than from abusing any particular system the devs decide to implement.

I'll admit to being one of the ignorant. I blindly wander into PVP when there's a reward I want and just try to find teams I can actually beat with decent values for a win. I have no time to figure out the inner workings of it and am not serious or consistent enough to join anything but a casual, "please play every day" alliance.

firethorne

You're right Tony. Because when they went to take on cupcakes, they were treating symptoms, but ignoring the disease. Cupcakes weren't the problem. Cupcakes existed because there were, and are still, deeper problems. PvP has never been about winning or loosing the fights you actively play. The AI is stupid, and you’ll win far more matches than you lose. The game is about how quickly you can win, and get back to a shield, so your stupid AI doesn't loose your points. The game is about getting a match done quickly, and getting to cover, because while you can hit one person at a time, ten people can hit you in the same period.

None of that changed with cupcakes, so the game is still about coordination and a small set of very quick teams. There are many teams that can win matches, but the problem is how quickly they do so. So, they end up shooting themselves in the foot on trying to set up variety in the game. The only teams that matter are the ones that win matches quickly, or can slow down opponents to a degree that it isn't worth the trouble because you'll take too many hits trying to hop.

In removing cupcakes, they did nothing to change the top end. They only cut down on the flow of points and rewards to casual players who benefited from finding them.

nigelregal

I'm the person in 3rd place there. normally CL6 would have 3 or so people at high 2000s who do not care about the 4* reward from CL7 and 8 so go there.

Tony_Foot

TxMoose wrote:

killing baking changed nothing (or at least very little) for front runners. what it killed was the prolific trickle-down effect on the rest of the scores behind the front runners. and baking isn't completely dead. you just have to successfully take on a champed 5* now, so there's a minimum roster requirement to benefit now.

Yeah exactly, so I don't see how this was a benefit to them. It killed a revenue source and did very little to the top and just cut the throats on 3*s trying to transition that actually needed the reward.

woopie wrote:

Yup, killing baking wasn't to stop absurd scores at the top. It was to reduce the CP flow to the middle/bottom

No they said in the Puzzle Quest podcast that it was to stop the absurd scoring, they said they liked the community aspect of baking rooms and didn't want to stop a community aspect but they wanted to reduce scoring. If it was about reducing the CP to the middle and bottom they wouldn't have thrown in an easy 10cp for 575 As I say I don't think this has really benefited anyone, from scores trickling down to not being sure what team I have out on defence.

From the podcast the sole aim was the scoring. Well this has failed.

Hendross

More evidence...with 3hr to go in the same event.

Rod5

Haha, 0yeah I'm the one at 1600 in Akari/Nigel's bracket. Purely CL6 for the Thano3 covers.

I agree with WelcomeDeath on this one - there is little incentive for anyone with a non-5*/boosted 4* team to try to go above 575, 650 max. Therefore no one bothers barely, and the ones that do end up q'ing (or getting hit by) players like me/Nigel (prob not Akari with his MMR lol).

Spread the CP rewards out more and you'll get more mixed rosters trying to push higher, more hittable teams for weaker rosters and so on.

mpqr7

Yeah, there are some people who spend lots of HP doing many many perilous 1-fight hops before getting mega-sniped, but the majority of players who get to 1200 easily with little stress are those with double-champed 5*s, so they are definitely the haves!!!!

The rest of us will never get there, unless we grind forever, get tons of RNG luck or pay a lot of $$$$.

Tony_Foot

Rod5 wrote:

Haha, 0yeah I'm the one at 1600 in Akari/Nigel's bracket. Purely CL6 for the Thano3 covers.

I agree with WelcomeDeath on this one - there is little incentive for anyone with a non-5*/boosted 4* team to try to go above 575, 650 max. Therefore no one bothers barely, and the ones that do end up q'ing (or getting hit by) players like me/Nigel (prob not Akari with his MMR lol).

Spread the CP rewards out more and you'll get more mixed rosters trying to push higher, more hittable teams for weaker rosters and so on.

Totally agree, just want to make it clear my intention is not to point out the have and have nots, I am not expecting an easy ride, I am pointing out the reasoning for changing the team on defence has utterly failed. The only reason to play really is for the 575 and hope that doing that twice gives me a usable classic. I do that for free and they no longer get my money.

Both D3 and I have lost

Personally I feel that CP needs moving up and the 4* cover down to make it achievable for the 3* roster. Currently I get to anywhere from 775-825 and I'm looking at a miracle or whaling every round one match hop at a time. So I don't bother.

TimGunn

wonder if non-5* rosters could "grill" or whatever. Could help some of us mid-tier players to get to 1200.

I always hear about people baking/grilling, but it is usually people with champed 5* that I can never q.

stochasticism

TimGunn wrote:

wonder if non-5* rosters could "grill" or whatever. Could help some of us mid-tier players to get to 1200.

I always hear about people baking/grilling, but it is usually people with champed 5* that I can never q.

Yes, anyone can grill. it just happens to be that the people that know how to do it are mostly 5* players.

RemoDestroyer

It's not all about spending money either to be a have. I know a bunch of haves that spent next to nothing but got very lucky with legendary tokens.They can climb to and past 1200 points before needing to shield.

And there is plenty of reason to go past 575 or 650. If you can grab placement rewards that give you 3 3* covers and an event token and a couple of elites that can be applied as champion levels. If you play cl6 and get 3 covers for individual placement, 1 cover from alliance placement and 2 covers from progression the next event then those 6 covers should be great for rewards.

boomshaka40

stochasticism wrote:

TimGunn wrote:

wonder if non-5* rosters could "grill" or whatever. Could help some of us mid-tier players to get to 1200.

I always hear about people baking/grilling, but it is usually people with champed 5* that I can never q.

Yes, anyone can grill. it just happens to be that the people that know how to do it are mostly 5* players.

TimGunn, there are a few who do (grill non-5* teams). It's much more risky and rare, but the pure 4* rosters are few and far between these days. It's more likely for a player to blow through the 4* transition entirely than for a player to develop their 4s.

TxMoose

stochasticism wrote:

TimGunn wrote:

wonder if non-5* rosters could "grill" or whatever. Could help some of us mid-tier players to get to 1200.

I always hear about people baking/grilling, but it is usually people with champed 5* that I can never q.

Yes, anyone can grill. it just happens to be that the people that know how to do it are mostly 5* players.

I know 4* players who grill with im40/unboosted ice sometimes. the thing is, once that goes out, the masses see it. a LOT larger group than when a 5* player grills. and it gets hit relentlessly by the masses because its worth points and it isn't boosted 4s or 5s. they do stay out of the big name snipers range due to mmr at least.

Ding

Killing baking was about preventing weak rosters from scoring obscenely. It's stopped some people that were scoring with rosters that they intentionally kept lower so that they could have easier scaling in PvE. I just wish that more of the people that said they'd quit with the removal of baking followed through with their "threat".

The next fix that they should do is get rid of scaling and mmr, since they shouldn't be necessary with SCL.

Tony_Foot

Ding wrote:

The next fix that they should do is get rid of scaling and mmr, since they shouldn't be necessary with SCL.

Only if it was a banded system but when a 5* roster can still sit in any of the lower levels then it has to stay. I'd love to see it banded personally but then I don't know how big the actual user base is and if it could take it.