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A Mostly Accurate 4* Ranking (Final Update 8/11/18)

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Comments

  • hopper1979hopper1979 Posts: 552 Critical Contributor
    Nice work, definitely might debate a few choices but that is the fun of the game. Keep up the good work!
  • vinsensualvinsensual Age Unconfirmed Posts: 458 Mover and Shaker
    Poor Venom. That black power is hot dog stand levels of both uselessness and why-even-make-this-ness. Then they go and make another Venom with zero acknowledgement of how bad the first one was.
  • SkygazingSkygazing Age Unconfirmed Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
    I'd agree with this overall, even though like most others I have differing opinions on several of your choices.

    To preface this I will say that my evaluation comes more from PvP than it does PvE. I take both into consideration, but realistically any character that isn't bottom of barrel (really just MF at this point) is going to help push through PvE much more easily when boosted. And the only ones who merit mention unboosted are the ones who are just plain strong all the time (like the original big five) or characters who have niche powers (Quake) that help with the more problematic elements of PvE.

    The big one I'd like to draw attention to is Kate Bishop.

    Kate is a monster of a character for damage even unboosted, and you do have her pretty high but I think she falls into top ten easily. Ruthless Precision has a niche rider effect but like Peggy it's solid damage even without it. In fact Peggy Red at max works out to about 750 damage per AP, while RP works out to 827 per AP. Still not the craziest but it's also a pure Blue nuke which isn't all too common. Yes Bobby Blue is the overall better power for sure, but it's worth noting that you "only" get 664 per AP out of it. Her other powers have similarly high ratios which makes her a character that benefits greatly from champion repec-ing, letting her slot into just about any team to provide a nice boost to damage. I'd easily rank her over Quake or Thoress.

    Other considerations:

    Blade is way too high on that list. His big selling point is his Red, and even that is very finicky. His Green is decent damage but doesn't really compare to most of the other 4* Greens, and his Black is incredibly underwhelming.

    Starlord is another one that ranks a bit too high IMO, but admittedly my 5/5/3 has been unchamped for a long time so I may be biased. His Yellow is better now, but not so much that it can carry his unboosted Red and Purple's numbers which still fall a bit short. He's another character that also performs way better in PvE than he does in PvP.

    On the subject of reworks, Cho should definitely be higher and arguably ahead of Starlord. His Green is expensive, but the modality of it combined with targeted tile destruction is very helpful. His Blue is light on AP generation but almost 2k damage unboosted is nothing to complain about, and his Black isn't a great heal but I've used it a ton just for the Charged tiles which end being very useful.
  • Piro_plockPiro_plock Posts: 287 Mover and Shaker
    edited December 2016
    Skygazing wrote:
    Starlord is another one that ranks a bit too high IMO, but admittedly my 5/5/3 has been unchamped for a long time so I may be biased. His Yellow is better now, but not so much that it can carry his unboosted Red and Purple's numbers which still fall a bit short. He's another character that also performs way better in PvE than he does in PvP.

    On the subject of reworks, Cho should definitely be higher and arguably ahead of Starlord. His Green is expensive, but the modality of it combined with targeted tile destruction is very helpful. His Blue is light on AP generation but almost 2k damage unboosted is nothing to complain about, and his Black isn't a great heal but I've used it a ton just for the Charged tiles which end being very useful.
    IMO you're underestimating Star-Lord. He is more of a PVE character, but he's definitely one of the best supports now. Reducing AP costs is BIG. It is the AP cost manipulation that causes Peggy to sit so high on the list after all. Red ability is now also one of the best among the 4* tier - at 5 covers, it's up to ~9k for 6 AP - unboosted! Granted, it's conditional, but it's really not that difficult to fulfill it in a node with at least one goon / character with cheap abilities. I'd say he makes feeder nodes not so much of a problem. Purple is not so good, so I recommend going 3/5/5. He makes PVE clears sooo much faster, which is an invaluable tool for a competitive player. Suffice to say, in many cases I would bring him (unboosted) to fight rather than a decent boosted 4*. He definitely earned high position in the rankings...
    ...but all that is from a hardcore hybrid player. In PVP he's meh. icon_e_wink.gif For sure he's better than Cho though.
  • sarloksarlok Age Unconfirmed Posts: 5
    X-Force Wolverine does do a bit better when paired with X-Force Deadpool. That team-up is definitely better than either one alone. DP's purple followed by Wolvie's black will usually down 2 characters and can even make a good dent in the third. If you don't have enough black, then green also has a good chance of popping the purple tiles. Combine that with the fact that they both self-heal, and you can keep the team going especially in PVE for very few health packs. Since the pair does pretty well on their own, the 3rd choice isn't that important and lets you rotate out as needed and also do the essential nodes easily. I like to use them with 5* Hulk for PVE as headds tile damage, and helps shake up the board which is what you want with these guys, and he doesn't need many health packs either.
  • Sm0keyJ0eSm0keyJ0e Posts: 565 Critical Contributor
    I think you will find over time as more and more people champ Medusa that she is easily a t10 4*. She replaces Fist as the go-to complement for strike tile producers, which is still the meta of the game. Not only that but she steals and improves your opponents' strike tiles.

    A good 4* is usable when they aren't boosted, like Peggy and Ice which I totally agree belong in the t5, but Medusa will find her way into the top spots soon enough...
  • ronin_sanronin_san Posts: 980 Critical Contributor
    I am dumbfounded by your low rating of Kingpin and Ant-Man. If you rate Medusa that high, then why doesn't Ant-Man get any love?

    And while Hulkbuster *was* good for his red, it's really not aging well. 3/5/5 works as 5* dominant rosters move to the fore.
  • GurlBYEGurlBYE Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    Is Charlie's Angels the same thing as Winfinite? If not, never mind, if so then I'd have to disagree with the "it sucks and is boring" comment.
    For me it's one of the most fun teams to play. Playing around making match 5s kind of switches up the entire general gameplay style you get with most teams and makes the team feel unique and different. I wish more character combinations had this kind of chemistry. The way it makes you change how you play is refreshing in a match 3 game and for me adds a lot of fun.
    Yes they are the same. It doesn't suck, but it is slow which makes it bad for competitive PvE, and weak on defense which makes it bad for competitive PvP. I do think that ProfX is still underrated on this list though. I've also started using 5* BW with ProfX and IF for a near-winfinite combo that is considerably faster than Charlie's Angels.


    it's slow compared to other 4 star teams, but it's kind of a weird fusion 3.5 team, and one that mainly sees use on a 3 star roster.

    For me, it is typically faster to use winfinite in pvps and pves because in 3 turns I'm putting out 7K and getting 8 purpletile.png ap in the same turn, typically getting the other 3 from the cascades along with a green aoe that deals 4K. And this happens every 2 turns after, if not every turn after and trivializes wave nodes.

    Comparatively, the strongest AOE attacks in the 3 star tier belong to deadpool, GSBW, panther, kamala

    While the strongest single targets are going to go to 3 star mag, hood yellow (ew) and iron fist.

    And none save for mag blue on a board with 7 redtile.png and 7 bluetile.png with a 3 ironman pumping out his yellowtile.png come anywhere near it in speed or damage.

    charlies angels can barely be compared to the 4 star tier because it uses the one member of the 4 star tier with no active offensive powers.

    it's a miracle in the mid to late 3 star tier and early 4 star transition, but only becomes weak when you have a combo involving the people in the first part of the list in OP covered and leveled.

    Like obviously red hulk is faster but I'm using charlies angels because i don't have red hulk.

    I don't even have a single cover of 5* BW but the one thing worse then charlies angels on defense is a single covered 5 star.
  • GurlBYEGurlBYE Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    Also wonderful list, even as a person not in 4 star though consider some other team ups.

    Maybe someone can add some cool team ups that have unique uses for upcoming bosses etc.

    Like carnage 90's venom medusa could provide some disgusting board shake/ healing.
  • fnedudefnedude Posts: 308 Mover and Shaker
    So where does Howard and DevilDino fall on the list to you?

    I'm curious to see how you rank them compared to others.

    Yes I know they are "specialty" characters
  • Hyposphere6234Hyposphere6234 Posts: 160 Tile Toppler
    I'm very much in the 3* to 4* transition status. I'm always interested in seeing these kinds of lists as it pits my own experiences against others. I have five championed 4*s (IW, Ant-Man, Kingpin, Elektra and Nick Fury) currently and they make a world of difference. There's many 4* covers that I'm seriously in need of though in which do negligible impact on matters.

    Elektra so far has been pretty unimpressive and I only include her for her red power. Nick Fury, IW, Kingpin and Ant-Man are absolute beasts for me and Elektra mixes in purely for the previously spoken red, faced against Daken it's relatively useless.

    What I like seeing these lists with niche characters is that there's always other niche characters to counteract them which are forgotten about because they're niche and forgotten about because their abilities are niche.

    A 4* character has launched positive and negative tiles? There's no way that any of my 3*s can deal with that situation! I use Doc Ock far more than Iron Fist and IM40 is a last resort for a lot of encounters if I'm stretching for a red or blue power.
  • El SatannoEl Satanno Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,005 Chairperson of the Boards
    If you think Peggy isn't better than Iceman I'd like to get some of what you're smoking, please.

    Nice write-up, though! I applaud your formatting and attention to detail.
  • Piro_plockPiro_plock Posts: 287 Mover and Shaker
    El Satanno wrote:
    If you think Peggy isn't better than Iceman I'd like to get some of what you're smoking, please.

    Nice write-up, though! I applaud your formatting and attention to detail.
    Let's do some direct comparison, then.

    star.png star.png star.png star.png DAMAGE OUTPUT AND STUNS star.png star.png star.png star.png
    Peggy @lvl 270:
    Red 5 covers - 6751 damage, 9 AP (750 dmg / AP)
    Blue 5 covers - 3x 5292 damage, 11 AP (1443 dmg / AP... if all 3 countdowns resolve) plus 2x 3-turn stun
    (but that's the best-case scenario: both allies still alive, all 3 countdowns resolve)
    Ice @lvl 270:
    Green 5 covers - (3041 + # bluetile.png x 269) AoE, 12 AP - up to 7076 AoE (1769 dmg / AP)
    (again - best case scenario: 15 blue tiles on board, on average it's closer to 8-9; also assuming there are 3 enemies)
    Blue 5 covers - 7964 damage + 4-turn stun for 12 AP (664 dmg / AP)

    Hard to say who wins here. In an average situation, damage output is pretty comparable, but Iceman is a bit more flexible (you have much less control where damage lands with countdown tiles; a situation where you waste all 3 5k charges on a single 11k health enemy happens too often for me). His stun is also superior - much easier to stunlock and it works always, even when fighting a single enemy.

    star.png star.png star.png star.png ENEMY AP CONTROL star.png star.png star.png star.png
    Well, Peggy wins here by far: her passive increasing the cost of ALL active enemy abilities (it's conditional, but the condition is easy to fulfill) vs active ability draining a few AP of one specific colour.

    star.png star.png star.png star.png BOARD CONTROL star.png star.png star.png star.png
    Iceman wins here by default with his Cold As Ice attitude.

    star.png star.png star.png star.png SELF-SUFFICIENCY star.png star.png star.png star.png
    Iceman accelerates BOTH of his damage-dealing skills with his purple, making him pretty much self-sufficient. Peggy's blue is effectively tinykitty when she's alone (much, much less damage) OR fighting a single opponent (bye bye stun). She also becomes a non-threat when her health drops below Legendary Presence threshold (suddenly enemy team launches all the skills they've been gathering AP for...)

    star.png star.png star.png star.png GENERAL USEFULNESS star.png star.png star.png star.png
    - 3*->4* transition: both are awesome as a core of a transitioner's team;
    - 4* tier gameplay: Peggy might be slightly better, as she has very few counters at this tier (Hulkbuster and Red Hulk - their dmg/AP ratio aren't affected by Peggy);
    - 4*->5* transition and beyond: unboosted 4* go down fast under 5* match damage. As soon as you have a lvl 350+ 5*, Peggy's passive will stop bothering you. Iceman goes down quickly too, but he's usually not targeted first (unlike Peggy), so he can be useful a bit longer. (Boosted they both beat even 5* champs almost with ease.)

    Don't take me wrong, I'm not badmouthing Peggy. She's really awesome, but there is only one 4* King, long may His Frostiness reign.
  • DesertTortoiseDesertTortoise Posts: 392 Mover and Shaker
    Excellent list, thanks for putting in the effort to organize it. I've got a few minor disagreements but I'm glad you explain your rankings so clearly. A slight complaint is Sam Wilson's best ally is actually Hulkbuster at 3/5/5 as a red generator. HB also generates shield and strike tiles for him to boost with his blue. IM40 seems like the obvious choice (which you correctly point out why he's not) but it's really the other Iron Man that suits him best.
  • WobbyWobby Age Unconfirmed Posts: 286 Mover and Shaker
    Re: Peggy vs. Iceman,
    Peggy I am comfortable rolling with on my PVP team alongside OML, even unboosted.
    No other 4* gets that treatment.
    In the 4* vacuum Iceman is probably the best for certain, but Peggy is the #1 character for me.
  • JarvindJarvind Posts: 1,682 Chairperson of the Boards
    On reviewing the comments and considering further, I made a few changes:

    - Ant-Man, Kingpin, and Carnage all had their rank increased within their tiers.
    - Drax's rank was lowered within his tier.
    - Sam Wilson was bumped out of the trash tier and into the middle of the B-list tier. His description was changed as well.
    - Changed description of Wasp's AP drain to be correct.
    - Sorry, Peggy lovers and Reed haters. Iceman is still #1 and Venom is still dead last.

    Some suggestions clearly indicated that the character description had not been read. Just sayin'.
  • PolaresPolares Posts: 2,322 Chairperson of the Boards
    Wobby wrote:
    Re: Peggy vs. Iceman,
    Peggy I am comfortable rolling with on my PVP team alongside OML, even unboosted.
    No other 4* gets that treatment.
    In the 4* vacuum Iceman is probably the best for certain, but Peggy is the #1 character for me.

    I think Peggy is probably the best 4 when you are transitioning to 5 land. I have used her A LOT with OML and PH as the third in the team, even when she was not buffed. She might have the best single power of all 4 land. But I still think Iceman is the best 4 when you are in 4 land, acceleration AND AP destruction, cheap stun, strong attack to single char and amazing AoE, he has all the tools!

    In the end both are really really good, much better than any other 4 (Rhulk in PvP is close, but just in PvP).
  • PongiePongie Posts: 1,205 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm siding with Peggy on this debate. Normally I would agree that count downs are unreliable but 95% of the time, Peggy's red takes out the lone opponent that isn't stunned, leaving you to resolve the countdowns (granted once I wasn't paying attention and cast her blue when the only move was a blue match, luck would have it and all three countdowns were exactly that move. May happen again, but I still stand by Peggy over iceman).
  • KjempenKjempen Posts: 113 Tile Toppler
    fnedude wrote:
    So where does Howard and DevilDino fall on the list to you?

    I'm curious to see how you rank them compared to others.

    Yes I know they are "specialty" characters

    Sorry if this was a question intended for the OP, but I'll give my thoughts on it...

    I think Howard belongs in the "Niche/B-Listers" category (mostly because of his tile destruction and invisibility abilities). Actually all 3 of his abilities are useful. Devil Dinosaur does "smaller" tile destruction, and while his/her direct damage output is higher s/he just doesn't have the potential Howard has; think strike tiles coupled with Howard's green ability, which deals damage for each tile destroyed, or coupled with his purple ability. Devil Dinosaur fits in the "Just Not Very Good, You Guys" category - s/he is definitely below all in rank 1 to 38; red ability is too weak for AP cost (Venom's yellow does more damage and costing 1 AP less), and purple ability doesn't do too much, and the green ability is underwhelming when it comes to damage output and tile destruction (not good at either). All 3 powers just aren't good.
  • OneLastGambitOneLastGambit Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    Jarvind wrote:
    On reviewing the comments and considering further, I made a few changes:

    - Ant-Man, Kingpin, and Carnage all had their rank increased within their tiers.
    - Drax's rank was lowered within his tier.
    - Sam Wilson was bumped out of the trash tier and into the middle of the B-list tier. His description was changed as well.
    - Changed description of Wasp's AP drain to be correct.
    - Sorry, Peggy lovers and Reed haters. Iceman is still #1 and Venom is still dead last.

    Some suggestions clearly indicated that the character description had not been read. Just sayin'.

    Put out a guardians team of groot/drax/star Lord and you have good rainbow coverage, 2 who create CD to power drax black (groot and SL) and also reduce the cost of ridiculously cheap purple and red powers and lower the cost of groot blue and green.

    Its pretty much pve only but I feel like drax and SL would be a decent pvp team as well due to the ease with which CD tiles will happen. I can't test as my drax is not levelled enough. My point is drax on his own isn't that great but there's a few good teams he can be in.

    Agree with most of the ranking here and an entertaining write up.
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