1.9 Release Notes (12/8/16)

ZW2007-

Hibernum_JC wrote:

and her third is absurd with the right vehicles (Sovereign Skyship being fetched to the battlefield 4 times is very, VERY strong)

This is exactly my point. The change to her third ability is the incentive for players to spend $30 on a mythic. Without that mythic, her third ability is basically useless. The only other vehicle that might be worth using is the rare 6/6 for 16 with a lackluster ability (and it's only worth using if you want Saheeli to have three abilities).

nexus13

Hibernum_JC wrote:

I can guarantee to you guys that Saheeli Rai is still very strong. Energize 4 is very good on top of making Thopters, her 2nd ability is stronger (and there's a lot more Constructs in Kaladesh) and her third is absurd with the right vehicles (Sovereign Skyship being fetched to the battlefield 4 times is very, VERY strong).

The example that its good with one mythic that will probably be available only by purchase for the next couple of months really doesn't convince me. It should have broader utility and not be tied to pay to win. The other vehicles are generally underwhelming and since they aren't constructs and don't use energy have no synergy with the other abilities. Also the fact that your example is the Skyship being fetched four times leads me to believe that you realize it is the only vehicle with any value. It says in the notes things may still change, let's hope Saheeli is one of them.


Your explanation of overload was also a bit unclear. To achieve overload 3 do all the energized gems have to be part of the same match or do all the matches in a cascade count. Does a simultaneous match of 3 green with 1 energized and 4 black with 2 energized count as one match and have there energy added together to count to overload or are they each counted separately. On the other hand for overload 1 can it be fired multiple times during a sequence of cascades?

octal9

Withholding comment on Saheeli until I see her in play. I'm very concerned about her ult being so tightly coupled with vehicles. Look at Gideon2: there were no new allies in the last block, and there are no new ones here so far. Playing G2 can leave you feeling handcuffed* to BFZ block.

More constructs though, that will open up her second a bit.

Ah well. Card scrape complete; going through the tedious process of updating card details now.

@D3 is there any way you can publish the cost or color of the card with the text seen here:


edit: words

DuskPaladin

Why is Verdurous Gearhulk just a clearly worse version of Decimator of Provinces? (even if it boosted itself, it would be worse still)

babar3355

nexus13 wrote:

Hibernum_JC wrote:

I can guarantee to you guys that Saheeli Rai is still very strong. Energize 4 is very good on top of making Thopters, her 2nd ability is stronger (and there's a lot more Constructs in Kaladesh) and her third is absurd with the right vehicles (Sovereign Skyship being fetched to the battlefield 4 times is very, VERY strong).

The example that its good with one mythic that will probably be available only by purchase for the next couple of months really doesn't convince me. It should have broader utility and not be tied to pay to win. The other vehicles are generally underwhelming and since they aren't constructs and don't use energy have no synergy with the other abilities. Also the fact that your example is the Skyship being fetched four times leads me to believe that you realize it is the only vehicle with any value. It says in the notes things may still change, let's hope Saheeli is one of them.


Your explanation of overload was also a bit unclear. To achieve overload 3 do all the energized gems have to be part of the same match or do all the matches in a cascade count. Does a simultaneous match of 3 green with 1 energized and 4 black with 2 energized count as one match and have there energy added together to count to overload or are they each counted separately. On the other hand for overload 1 can it be fired multiple times during a sequence of cascades?

I am pretty sure he is saying if you match 3 energy gems in a single turn, the overload will activate.

Hibernum_JC

Rootbreaker wrote:

Does a cascade count towards overload 2 or 3?

Let's say you match 3 gems including 1 energized, and the resulting fall ends up with a match 3 including 2 energized. With that trigger overload 3?

What about breaking the energy gem matches over extra turns from match 5s?

Overload is always tied to a single match. If you cascade, they don't add up - they trigger overload multiple times.

That's why there's very few Overload 3 - in my testing I found them to be very difficult to trigger unless you flood the board with energy, so most Overloads are 1, some 2 and very few 3. (in general, an ability tied to Overload 3 is almost free, casting-cost wise).

As someone else asked, he's a clarification - If you do a simultaneous match with green and black, and green has 2 energized gems and black has 1, it should trigger Overload 3 (I just asked my engineer co-worker and she confirmed this to me).

The other thing to note about Saheeli Rai's 3rd is that using it "thins" your deck. If you have a single vehicle in your deck, it will always play all 4 copies of it, and you won't ever draw that vehicle in the game until your deck is fully depleted (or you use an ability that fetches a creature and there are no creatures left in your deck). Using it effectively removes the draws from your following draws, which makes it more likely that you will draw something else you might want to draw.

Also to note there are 3 Rare vehicles - Cultivator's Caravan, Fleetwheel Cruiser and Smuggler's Copter. All three of them are quite viable - Culivator's Caravan, with 3 activated gems, is very good for ramping, Fleetwheel Cruiser with Haste essentially means "Summon a 24/24 creature and deal 24 damage". Smuggler's Copter is also a good card draw engine that actually synergizes well with Madness from SoI, being a good transition card. All three of them are good candidates for Saheeli Rai's 3rd ability.

DuskPaladin

Planeswalkers tied with a set-specific theme are bad, like a Ninjutsu-themed or Void-themed planeswalker would be in paper magic. After cards from their respective blocks, they won't receive any meaningful upgrades. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar was good at first, but now who's still playing with him? What new toys did he get? Same will happen with Arlinn, and now with Saheeli. Her second ability was useless before, now it's extending to her third ability, too.

Even if Sky Sovereign is a good combo with her, we have to open him first, and then when we'll get tired of him and wish to try something else, there won't be anything else, unfortunately. Dragons, and constructs are rare enough, but we'll still get them sometimes in future set. The same can't be said about Vehicules. (examples of good themes: supports, zombies, card draw, etc.)

murtagon

I do get the desire to link Saheeli to this set and I like that PWs can help expand the usefulness of certain set mechanics. My concern and I think it is shared by many others is the change to her really lock her into this one set. Vehicles are not creature set that will likely continue beyond this set. So this effectively forces anyone that wants to use Saheeli's ultimate to always carry a card from the Kaladesh block, and right now best case we are looking at 1 card that makes Saheeli's ultimate competitive with the other PW ultimates. I recognize there are other options but when you compare using those other vehicles with the ultimate you see how they really do not shine as a choice for an ultimate.

G2 has a similar limitation with allies but he can create and buff his own.
Arlinn is tied to werewolves but they show up in other sets, granted infrequently. Really the same argument could be made for Arlinn, since, without a WW she cannot use most of her capabilities but I digress.

Personally I think it is better when a PW's abilities are not so tightly bound to a release that they are hamstrung when the meta moves past that release, when Saheeli cast 4 support you knew she was a PW that could adapt with the times. Now she is frozen and forever tied to Kaladesh, which can be somewhat fun for Kaladesh but is really unfortunate. Right now she is one of the better PW. These changes will have unfortunate long term side effects to a great PW.

ZW2007-

I feel like the purpose of tying planeswalkers more directly to sets is to make the planeswalkers obsolete once that set is no longer the newest set. Arlinn was exciting because she was the first Red Green color combination but why would people invest in another Red Green planeswalker down the road if Arlinn was still serviceable? As pessimistic as this may sound, it's hard to deny that this method keeps the money flowing while also making it easier to develop new planeswalkers in pre-existing color combinations.

madwren

The problem is that you are severely restricting player design space and creativity by moving from the myriad combinations of supports to a very limited number of viable vehicle. Why? Not for balance reasons, which is the only acceptable reason for drastic change, but for unasked for flavor reasons. I don't care if I have Three Exciting New Vehicles when you're destroying her versatility.

This is a limiting action, not an expansive one, so yes, some of us are very disturbed by this choice.

murtagon

ZW2007- wrote:

I feel like the purpose of tying planeswalkers more directly to sets is to make the planeswalkers obsolete once that set is no longer the newest set. Arlinn was exciting because she was the first Red Green color combination but why would people invest in another Red Green planeswalker down the road if Arlinn was still serviceable? As pessimistic as this may sound, it's hard to deny that this method keeps the money flowing while also making it easier to develop new planeswalkers in pre-existing color combinations.

I understand where you are coming from but Anjani/Nahiri show this is not the case. I have both and they play very differently because of their abilities even though they share the same colors. A PW is much more than their color and Anjani/Nahiri will continue to get play due to how their abilities, match bonuses and card type limitations allow you to build a deck.

ZW2007-

murtagon wrote:

ZW2007- wrote:

I feel like the purpose of tying planeswalkers more directly to sets is to make the planeswalkers obsolete once that set is no longer the newest set. Arlinn was exciting because she was the first Red Green color combination but why would people invest in another Red Green planeswalker down the road if Arlinn was still serviceable? As pessimistic as this may sound, it's hard to deny that this method keeps the money flowing while also making it easier to develop new planeswalkers in pre-existing color combinations.

I understand where you are coming from but Anjani/Nahiri show this is not the case. I have both and they play very differently because of their abilities even though they share the same colors. A PW is much more than their color and Anjani/Nahiri will continue to get play due to how their abilities, match bonuses and card type limitations allow you to build a deck.

I agree with you there and I did consider it but I don't think they thought up this tactic until after Arlinn. Once she was out they realized how limited in scope she truly is and what opportunities this could open up for them from a business perspective. Ajani is great but Nahiri is likely the stronger of the two.

sunprincess

I have a lot of misgivings about the changes to Saheeli Rai, chiefly that she does not canonically has not been seen even near Vehicles at all and also does not depend on the Aether that "Energized" gems represent either.

I wrote up why these changes, as well as why a predicted energy themed Chandra (if they keep the energy theme up) do not fit the lore well at all, in this thread here, and I would very much encourage anyone here to read it and comment on it if they agree with the criticisms.

Fiddler

sunprincess wrote:

I have a lot of misgivings about the changes to Saheeli Rai, chiefly that she does not canonically has not been seen even near Vehicles at all and also does not depend on the Aether that "Energized" gems represent either.

I wrote up why these changes, as well as why a predicted energy themed Chandra (if they keep the energy theme up) do not fit the lore well at all, in this thread here, and I would very much encourage anyone here to read it and comment on it if they agree with the criticisms.

I don't want to be disrespectful but I think many players of this game do not come from a paper MTG background and do not concerns ourselves about canon. What I like is the expansions to puzzle quest is the introduction of new mechanics to play with. Sometimes they work in really interesting ways, which is fun. Sometimes they don't, which is too bad. And sometimes they just appeal to a person's play style (I am sure 'someone' out there likes 'melding'). My point is people play this game on its own merits and enjoy the MTG flavor.

khurram

ZW2007- wrote:

Hibernum_JC wrote:

and her third is absurd with the right vehicles (Sovereign Skyship being fetched to the battlefield 4 times is very, VERY strong)

This is exactly my point. The change to her third ability is the incentive for players to spend $30 on a mythic. Without that mythic, her third ability is basically useless. The only other vehicle that might be worth using is the rare 6/6 for 16 with a lackluster ability (and it's only worth using if you want Saheeli to have three abilities).

Guys If you look at the card gallery soveriegn is not marked as exclusive. So it will be lootable from packs from the start. There are 6 other mythics and 6 rares marked as exclusives.

Ohboy

ZW2007- wrote:

murtagon wrote:

ZW2007- wrote:

I feel like the purpose of tying planeswalkers more directly to sets is to make the planeswalkers obsolete once that set is no longer the newest set. Arlinn was exciting because she was the first Red Green color combination but why would people invest in another Red Green planeswalker down the road if Arlinn was still serviceable? As pessimistic as this may sound, it's hard to deny that this method keeps the money flowing while also making it easier to develop new planeswalkers in pre-existing color combinations.

I understand where you are coming from but Anjani/Nahiri show this is not the case. I have both and they play very differently because of their abilities even though they share the same colors. A PW is much more than their color and Anjani/Nahiri will continue to get play due to how their abilities, match bonuses and card type limitations allow you to build a deck.

I agree with you there and I did consider it but I don't think they thought up this tactic until after Arlinn. Once she was out they realized how limited in scope she truly is and what opportunities this could open up for them from a business perspective. Ajani is great but Nahiri is likely the stronger of the two.

Gideon 2 was the original flavor PW. He was dominant in bfz, and fell out of favor in soi.

Arlinn was the flavor PW for soi. She will fall out of favor in kaladesh.

There is nothing wrong with this. Don't buy her if you don't like a flavor PW. If you already have her... You got her for free and she gave you months of good play as a top tier PW. And she probably still will for months to come. **** is up with the complaints?

I actually think she got improved with these changes, but like everyone else... It's just speculation because none of us have played it yet.

ZW2007-

Ohboy wrote:

Gideon 2 was the original flavor PW. He was dominant in bfz, and fell out of favor in soi.

Arlinn was the flavor PW for soi. She will fall out of favor in kaladesh.

There is nothing wrong with this. Don't buy her if you don't like a flavor PW. If you already have her... You got her for free and she gave you months of good play as a top tier PW. And she probably still will for months to come. **** is up with the complaints?

I actually think she got improved with these changes, but like everyone else... It's just speculation because none of us have played it yet.

Sorry I forgot all about Gideon 2 but he can function independently of any ally creatures in his deck and still use all his abilities. Nahiri was also flavored ever so slightly towards her set with the discard ability which was a nod to madness and her paper form. It wasn't until Arlinn that they really honed in on this approach. She can only use her first ability without any werewolves in the deck. If you weren't lucky enough to get GRB or sage and you didn't buy Ulrich, you are looking at some sad options if you want to use her as a planeswalker. Otherwise you are just using her as a color combination which is fine but boring.

With Saheeli it's now a somewhat similar situation. You can play her without vehicles and that leaves you just spamming your first ability all the time which is boring (pending how overload works out - see below). I wouldn't mind the change if any of the vehicles actually looked interesting but they don't. The mythic (which I know now is not an exclusive so props to the devs for that) is basically a colorless Tyrant of Valakut with a bigger body. I really only see this being played in Saheeli decks (because vehicle) and white decks with Deploy that lack better Deploy options. Of the three rares, I only think the haste one is worth using in Saheeli. Of course we'll have to wait and see how well crew works but since it doesn't count tokens (and rightly so), it likely won't help reduce the costs by much.

I don't mind the changes to the first two abilities at all. The addition of energy to the first ability might be a huge improvement (in fact it lets you cast Confiscation Coup with having a single energize card in your deck). The second ability was and will remain irrelevant as far as I am concerned. My only issue with the third ability is vehicles. If vehicles were constructs it would be less of a problem since then her second ability could actually buff them (and have a use). Or if there were more interesting vehicles at lower rarities... for 20 loyalty the uncommons will get you a 16/16 with either haste, unblockable or draw 4 cards (assuming it works for each reinforcement). With how prevalent removal is and the potential with overload cards, you are likely better off just summoning an 8/8 flyer and making 8 energy for 18 loyalty.

And yes I have Saheeli and no I didn't get her for free. When they announced the event as a limited time exclusivity, I grinded my way to gold so I had a slightly higher chance of finishing high enough to earn her. Then I spent three days playing the longest event ever to earn her. And then after they said it was a one-time only event, they went and had two more events that were shorter than the first one (and whatever, I'm glad they did more events for more people to get her but I don't like when they say one thing and do another - one-time only should mean one-time only, not three times.).

Sorry for the long post but I just wanted to clarify my position on the matter. I'm fine with the business model, its what keeps the game going but you can't deny that it's exactly what is happening here.

Alve

Regarding Saheeli's 3rd - it has absolutely no synergy with her first two skills. The first two are all about constructs, the third suddenly forces you to add a vehicle if you want to ever use it. Please, change it to draw constructs. Feel free to nerf it if you feel you have to, but make it work as a theme. Or leave it as it is. It's useless to make pw's 1st skill work with Plants, 2nd with Zombies and 3rd with Birds. It's chaotic and its viability is dependent on too many factors. She has a constructs/artifacts theme. We should stick to it.

winterwolves

When is this update? It has been the 8th for over 22 hours where I live. Damn you UTC!

ridfrenzy

You people aren't asking the big questions....

Will Season's Past finally be bug free?


^^ that is a big question!