Very Frustrating: No good queues after 1100

Bowgentle

Hendross wrote:

Welcome Death wrote:

As far as how it works, gotta have at least 3 people with similar rosters, climb as high as possible. Once you can find each other, youre high enough. One shields, the other two hit, he qs up the others, second shields, 1st and 3rd hit, second queues them. Third shields, first and second hit, etc, etc.

Doesn't this result in 70-140pt hops? Does not compute, how people are still scoring over 3,000/event.

Because they're coordinating with 30 people instead of 3.

fmftint

The real issue isn't points available, it's the extremely narrow queue system. Cycling the same players when you know there are better targets out needs to be addressed already

Phumade

Hendross wrote:

Welcome Death wrote:

As far as how it works, gotta have at least 3 people with similar rosters, climb as high as possible. Once you can find each other, youre high enough. One shields, the other two hit, he qs up the others, second shields, 1st and 3rd hit, second queues them. Third shields, first and second hit, etc, etc.

Doesn't this result in 70-140pt hops? Does not compute, how people are still scoring over 3,000/event.

Because every shield has the same 8hour cooldown. every 8hrs you can make 3 hops. burn a 3, 8, 24. 8 hours after your start your 24h shield, all your shields will regenerate (not quite sure on the 24hr shield?) and you could start a new cycle of hops.

Plenty of shields to actually score much higher than 3k, but there you have to work on maximizing target values, and be given a long skip deference by other players so you can squeeze extra matches in a hop.

Fightmastermpq

Hendross wrote:

Welcome Death wrote:

As far as how it works, gotta have at least 3 people with similar rosters, climb as high as possible. Once you can find each other, youre high enough. One shields, the other two hit, he qs up the others, second shields, 1st and 3rd hit, second queues them. Third shields, first and second hit, etc, etc.

Doesn't this result in 70-140pt hops? Does not compute, how people are still scoring over 3,000/event.

It's just a lot of people doing this to add points to the slice that never get removed. Once those 3 all hop they can all grill for everyone in the chat - theoretically hundreds of people, but more realistically a dozen. So if a dozen guys can then grab 150 pts off those first 3 that's a ton of points that get added to the slice, and then they just continue to climb off each other while they are shielded all event.

SnowcaTT

HaywireII wrote:

The current system rewards taking as many points as you can and then hiding behind a shield. Until Versus mode is changed so that it no longer encourages you to not actively play during most of the event people will continue to have issues with it.

Incentivizing players to play early and often would be a good step in the right direction.

I would love this, and have been asking for it for such a long time. I'm thrilled with those who have the HP to front-run....but not everyone has the HP/time to do that. I wish that the first 36 hours of the event counted for SOMETHING. Maybe defensive loss points need to be looked at again....

To those wondering where the targets are - check out advice from aesthetocyst and Quibbles above. The targets are out there, you just have to know where and when...and if you work with them, you can know that information. But yes, the targets are rarely out (late) for the reasons aesthetocyst mentioned, and until defensive point losses are changed finding good targets above 800 points will be a pretty rare thing.

Hendross

So if you can clear a steak, all is good with the world. But, for those of us smited by RNGus ... this has only widened the divide between those with and those without. I feel like we've gone back in time with the discussion, sorry.

Talus9952

cozmo1682 wrote:

Phumade wrote:

mpqr7 wrote:

I feel like I'm doing all the right things. I'm buying tokens. I'm doing multiple shield hops. I'm playing PVE to the fullest. But nothing matters because I'm mostly just either not pulling the covers I want or else pulling non-championed dupes (d'oh!). And due to this PVP change, I'm getting less CP than ever.

you have the basic tactics down, you just need to put it all together in 1 complete package. One thing you don't mention is are your REALLY working with people or just sharing info?

There is a difference. For a change of play, partner up with 3 other similar players who will commit to the same hop schedule. Once your ACTIVELY coordinating play with 3 other similar players, you will see a major change in scoring.

In one pvp, I worked with 3 other committed players and we hit 1200 in the first 12 hours of the event. Thats when you see the real power of how players can coordinate.

I guess I dont 100% understand how this works. Seems like i barely see the people around me on the leaderboard when I'm skipping for points. How exactly do you work together with other players when its kind of random to find opponents. Do you guys trade hits and shields or attack the same folks? I used to get to 800 easily, usually 900 and 1 out of 4 1k. Now, after i hit 725 its nothing but junk for 20, 25 points.

It's because you can only queue up people who aren't shielded. If everyone above you worth 50+ points are shielded, you won't ever queue them. That's why it's important to know when people do their hops, because in that short time that they're unshielded for their hop, you can queue them. Then if you choose to wait until they shield before you hit them, you are adding points to shard, instead of transferring points. You also have to take MMR into account. If you're on a 4* roster, and everyone around you is a 5* roster, then you're less likely to find them.

WelcomeDeath

Hendross wrote:

So if you can clear a steak, all is good with the world. But, for those of us smited by RNGus ... this has only widened the divide between those with and those without. I feel like we've gone back in time with the discussion, sorry.

Thats was more my point in the first post I put up here. Progression to the next tier is considerably harder, and while I understand the reasoning to some extent, it can be very demoralizing to players really trying to progress. As far as 3k scores go...its you start minute 1 with a small group and get to 1k+ in the first couple hours, come back and burn 3 shields every 8 hours for a net gain of 300-400 points, it might be possible to come close even with 3 people...but that's not what happens. It's typically more people, hopping throughout an event, later climbers benefit and catch up and can pass the early groups, so when you come back, the shard has kept moving up, so you're talking at least a 200 point hop, often more if you're willing to do more than a 3 hop or more than one hop every 8 hours. It builds up.

Fightmastermpq

Hendross wrote:

So if you can clear a steak, all is good with the world. But, for those of us smited by RNGus ... this has only widened the divide between those with and those without. I feel like we've gone back in time with the discussion, sorry.

4* players should be able to clear a steak. Last season I started Sim with "trap cakes" consisting of IM40 and various 4* combos fighting only champed 5*s and got high enough to start generating some 4* retals from it. A single 5* with a 3* and loaner should be no big deal.

Hendross

Fightmastermpq wrote:

Hendross wrote:

So if you can clear a steak, all is good with the world. But, for those of us smited by RNGus ... this has only widened the divide between those with and those without. I feel like we've gone back in time with the discussion, sorry.

4* players should be able to clear a steak. Last season I started Sim with "trap cakes" consisting of IM40 and various 4* combos fighting only champed 5*s and got high enough to start generating some 4* retals from it. A single 5* with a 3* and loaner should be no big deal.

I've only had success with Iceman stun locking the legendary, maybe this is a topic for another thread. But that leaves a pretty **** team on defense, it would be like un-shielding on a cupcake if you were to hop again ~1000

Fightmastermpq

Hendross wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

Hendross wrote:

So if you can clear a steak, all is good with the world. But, for those of us smited by RNGus ... this has only widened the divide between those with and those without. I feel like we've gone back in time with the discussion, sorry.

4* players should be able to clear a steak. Last season I started Sim with "trap cakes" consisting of IM40 and various 4* combos fighting only champed 5*s and got high enough to start generating some 4* retals from it. A single 5* with a 3* and loaner should be no big deal.

I've only had success with Iceman stun locking the legendary, maybe this is a topic for another thread. But that leaves a pretty tinykitty team on defense, it would be like un-shielding on a cupcake if you were to hop again ~1000

Bring a MBW TU instead.

Aweberman

I have found this discussion to be fascinating and very informative, so thanks to for the explanations. (For context, I am a level-64 player with 5 champed 4* who can usually crack 900 points without coordinating with anyone.) I do have a couple other questions, though.

1.) I am not very conversant with LINE, though I do have the app. How do I go about finding these rooms where people are coordinating? If asking the question isn't a horrible faux pas.

2.) How many HP are people typically spending in a PVP to climb up to 1200? What about 2000 or 3000?

3.) Is my roster too weak to avail myself of this system?

WelcomeDeath

Aweberman wrote:

I have found this discussion to be fascinating and very informative, so thanks to for the explanations. (For context, I am a level-64 player with 5 champed 4* who can usually crack 900 points without coordinating with anyone.) I do have a couple other questions, though.

1.) I am not very conversant with LINE, though I do have the app. How do I go about finding these rooms where people are coordinating? If asking the question isn't a horrible faux pas.

2.) How many HP are people typically spending in a PVP to climb up to 1200? What about 2000 or 3000?

3.) Is my roster too weak to avail myself of this system?

Question 2 - people that use all 3 every 8 hours (and they exist) would be burning 475 every 8 hours for 2 1/2 days or so, so 2500-3k is feasible

Question 1 and 3...pm.

Talus9952

Aweberman wrote:

I have found this discussion to be fascinating and very informative, so thanks to for the explanations. (For context, I am a level-64 player with 5 champed 4* who can usually crack 900 points without coordinating with anyone.) I do have a couple other questions, though.

1.) I am not very conversant with LINE, though I do have the app. How do I go about finding these rooms where people are coordinating? If asking the question isn't a horrible faux pas.

2.) How many HP are people typically spending in a PVP to climb up to 1200? What about 2000 or 3000?

3.) Is my roster too weak to avail myself of this system?

1. You'll have to get invited to it. Which shard do you pvp in?
2. I can typically climb to 1200 with 1 shield. I can get to 2k using about 600 HP.
3. It will depend on if you have a boosted 4*. Typical front runners in shard 4 will typically leave a team with a champ 5* for people to queue.

Phumade

Aweberman wrote:

2.) How many HP are people typically spending in a PVP to climb up to 1200? What about 2000 or 3000?

rank 84 with 3 champed 5*, 35+ 4*, 41 3*

as few as 1 shield, to a common 3,8,3 hop to a complicated 3,8,24. It all depends on your roster, what's boosted, and when you actually start your final climb to first shield.

Polares

sinnerjfl wrote:

Hendross wrote:

I suspect there was a stealth change, I had similar frustrations. I couldn't find anything over 40 points above 800. Then I lost almost 300 points, which took me well below my equilibrium despite 2 maxed, buffed 4 stars. So, once again it was 900 and done for me after re-climbing and 1 shield.

This was for both, A.Venom and Dr.Ock events.

Alternate theory, there was no stealth change, I suspect a lot of people have given up on hitting 1200 altogether and just stop at 900 therefore a lot less points available.

I agree no stealth change, just a change in the conditions of the meta.

A lot of people with champed 4s don't bother now to try to get to 1200 AND a lot more people now has a team of 5s (there is a big group of people with BBolt+IM or BW champed instead of PH+OML now). Having 5s soft capped is starting to be a BIG problem for a lot of players that before could get to 1200 just with champed 4s. Having two champed 5s is now a requirement to get to 1200.

I used to get to 1200 (or 1300 without using cupcakes) with one shield, or sometimes even without any shield at all. Things have changed A LOT. Now I usually get to 950 or so and I have to use the first shield, and from there depending on the luck finding targets, I might need two or three shields more. Max two fights per hop, or I get hit too (with PH+OML champed).

I think the era of soft-capping 5s might end soon (or has already ended). Or you play PvP to 1200 with your 5s at max level possible and endure PvE, or you have a nicer experience in PvE but just get to 900 in PvP.

Having two champed 5s in PvP to get to max progression before was an advantage now it is a requirement.

PS: Of course using battle chats might change everything I said, but for most people this is the new meta.

mpqr7

Daiches wrote:

Come on.. We all know you know how pvp works. Why aren't you just joining the room?

We even used to be in the same t10 alliance.

Back in those days, I must have had a lot more free time. But now I don't have the availability to constantly be checking BCs and adding queues. It's either my morning train commute, my lunch break or that's it.

If the queues aren't there, it doesn't matter how many BCs I'm in.

Also I had to leave the t10 alliance because all of that was way too much pressure and too stressful for me. I applaud and appreciate those who did it then and do it now, but I simply couldn't keep it up. Now, I'm in an alliance group where basically you move into the specific alliance that aligns with your current scores on an event-by-event basis. So if you score well, you get moved into a top alliance. If you tank an event, you get moved into a casual alliance. That fits better with my current play style.

I just get frustrated because it seems that even when I want to go for high scores, there's no way without going all in, joining a large BC, tracking it very closely etc.

I'm in my alliance's BC, but it's pretty small, not enough people hopping to build enough queues, at least for me.



Anyway tl;dr it used to be way easier and now it involves a lot more hops / work for the same amount of cp. I respect those who are willing to adapt, but I just don't have the availability currently.

Phumade

mpqr7 wrote:

I just get frustrated because it seems that even when I want to go for high scores, there's no way without going all in, joining a large BC, tracking it very closely etc.

I'm in my alliance's BC, but it's pretty small, not enough people hopping to build enough queues, at least for me.



Anyway tl;dr it used to be way easier and now it involves a lot more hops / work for the same amount of cp. I respect those who are willing to adapt, but I just don't have the availability currently.

I don't mean this come off as mean, but those who put the work in reap the rewards.

You know all the tactics & strategies and can recognize when other players are using those tools to advance. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone when those players are outpacing you.

Enjoy the game for the amount of time and commitment that you are able to give. Be realistic about effort/ reward and be gracious when you recognize that other players are putting in the time and creativity to think outside the box and find alternative teams that beat the conventional wisdom.

mpqr7

Well, you guys bullied me into trying another strategy. I switched to S1 and climbed early.

With 24 hours left, I climbed to 830 and dropped a 24-HR shield. Then with 6 hours left, I hopped to 953 (got one snipe) and used an 8HR shield. Then with 40 minutes left (woke up early), I tried to hop to 1100 to get in range, but got sniped to 923, so worse than 953. Sure, I could've hopped to 1050, but that would've kept me out of range of 1200.

So, numerous hours and stress plus 525 HP invested. Still stuck at 923, which is worse than when I do S4 and climb late, which gets me 950 to 1000.

Yes, a BC could get me better queues and prevent certain people from sniping me. But it won't prevent everyone from sniping me, because the fact that there are no queues automatically makes me a very juicy target to the whole world outside the BCs.

My low level oml (420) makes me an easy target, but pvp doesn't allow me to score more cp, and rng doesn't allow me to win his yellow cover anyway, so I'm truly stuck.


In conclusion,

Fightmastermpq

mpqr7 wrote:

Well, you guys bullied me into trying another strategy. I switched to S1 and climbed early.

With 24 hours left, I climbed to 830 and dropped a 24-HR shield. Then with 6 hours left, I hopped to 953 (got one snipe) and used an 8HR shield. Then with 40 minutes left (woke up early), I tried to hop to 1100 to get in range, but got sniped to 923, so worse than 953. Sure, I could've hopped to 1050, but that would've kept me out of range of 1200.

So, numerous hours and stress plus 525 HP invested. Still stuck at 923, which is worse than when I do S4 and climb late, which gets me 950 to 1000.

Yes, a BC could get me better queues and prevent certain people from sniping me. But it won't prevent everyone from sniping me, because the fact that there are no queues automatically makes me a very juicy target to the whole world outside the BCs.

My low level oml (420) makes me an easy target, but pvp doesn't allow me to score more cp, and rng doesn't allow me to win his yellow cover anyway, so I'm truly stuck.


In conclusion,

I don't even have to go back and reread the thread to know that not a single person with enough brain cells to use a computer advocated that you try to hop from 1100 to 1200 with 40 minutes left in the event.

With 24h left you climb to 830 and drop a THREE hour shield. Then you skip for an hour, hit 3 good qs, then drop an 8 hour, then you skip for an hour, hit 3 good qs and hopefully drop your 24h at 1200+ or 1 match away from it where you can finish up at like the 6h mark or something like that.