*** Black Widow (Grey Suit) ***

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  • GumisKGumisK Posts: 372 Mover and Shaker
    Not a bug, that's how GSBW works by design. She's the only chatacter so far that uses two of her weak colours to fuel her skills. There's a similar case with Classic Magneto, who has a purple ability, but doesn't deal much purple damage.
  • DayvDayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    I wouldn't go so far as to say that's how she works "by design". She's one of the early examples of a character that exists in multiple rarity levels with very different skills. Her 3* version has the damage strengths inherited from her 1* version, rather than those of her skills.

    3* Magneto started as a 2-skill character and had a skill added later that didn't match his existing match damage strengths, if I recall correctly.

    Ragnarok has only two skills and strong match damage in those two colors *only*.

    These are the only characters whose match damage doesn't fit normal patterns, and they're some of the earliest 3* characters in the game. If these quirks were intentional, I think we'd see more variations in new characters, but they all consistently have three strong colors matched to their three skills.

    We don't even see 2-power characters introduced anymore. I think OBW was the last one put out, and she was announced as having a third power soon, which arrived a month or so later. Even 3* Daken is going to have three powers, unlike his legacy 2* version.

    So yes, in my opinion, this is an unintended quirk at least, if not necessarily a bug.

    The only problem I'd have with "correcting" GSBW's damage at this point is that I've kind of built my A-Team around it. I don't want her to start tanking damage for The Hulk, for example.
  • DayvBang wrote:
    These are the only characters whose match damage doesn't fit normal patterns, and they're some of the earliest 3* characters in the game. If these quirks were intentional, I think we'd see more variations in new characters, but they all consistently have three strong colors matched to their three skills.
    Not quite correct. Somebody recently made a list, as much as I remember there's at least half a dozen other characters where match damage doesn't fit the skill sequence. Most are easy to miss, e.g. Iron Man 40 has blue and yellow swapped.
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    DayvBang wrote:
    I wouldn't go so far as to say that's how she works "by design". She's one of the early examples of a character that exists in multiple rarity levels with very different skills. Her 3* version has the damage strengths inherited from her 1* version, rather than those of her skills.
    A nitpick: GSBW and oBW share strong colours, not mBW and GSBW. mBW has strong purple, blue and yellow (same as Spider-Man, Falcon and Fury).
  • DayvDayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    Moghwyn wrote:
    DayvBang wrote:
    These are the only characters whose match damage doesn't fit normal patterns, and they're some of the earliest 3* characters in the game. If these quirks were intentional, I think we'd see more variations in new characters, but they all consistently have three strong colors matched to their three skills.
    Not quite correct. Somebody recently made a list, as much as I remember there's at least half a dozen other characters where match damage doesn't fit the skill sequence. Most are easy to miss, e.g. Iron Man 40 has blue and yellow swapped.
    I don't consider that to be the same as having completely unmatched colors.

    There's a pattern to what you're referring to as well, but it's much less strongly enforced so I don't take it as given that any character should adhere to it.
  • I think it's obvious beyond any argument that the characters ARE supposed to be strong in three colors, no matter if they have two or three abilities, AND that they are supposed to be strong in the colors their abilities belong to. Think about it: If Hulk was weak in green, why would he have a green ability, and why would players bother to gather green when it does weak damage?

    No, I'm dead certain that all characters are supposed to have three strong colors and three weak ones, and that the colors should correspond to their abilities. The characters that only have two strong colors should have a third strong too.

    I would love to hear some of the devs' opinions on this. What is right and what is wrong? What is a bug and what isn't? I'm pretty sure that "Gray Widow" actually had the right color matches a long time ago, I'm sure I saw it, but then the red was changed to blue (but the other's remained) and now all her colors match OBW's abilities instead. That doesn't sound right in any corner!

    Here's what I think has happened: Some characters and abilities have been mixed up, and Gray Widow has accidentally got the same color scheme as OBW, so it's not done on purpose.
  • GumisKGumisK Posts: 372 Mover and Shaker
    Daige wrote:
    Here's what I think has happened: Some characters and abilities have been mixed up, and Gray Widow has accidentally got the same color scheme as OBW, so it's not done on purpose.

    I wouldn't risk such a strong statement, as it seems there are a bit too many characters with a surprising colour scheme to consider them simple bugs. Moreover, in case of GSBW, I think it works brilliantly to match her character class. She's a sniper character - very fragile, but once ready, offering an enormous chunk of damage with her rifle shot. As a sniper, she's not supposed to be on the frontline, threatened by the enemies. She must hide ins hadows until she's prepared to deliver a lethal blow. With her ability colours being her weak side, she's almost guaranteed to always hide behind some other hero on your squad while collecting green, red and purple, which translates really neatly into her flavour - waiting patiently, unnoticed, so she can kill or cripple an opponent with a surprise attack. For me, such logic works pretty well, and I feel the game should definitely be in tune with lore and flavour aspects, which give it more depth than plain, simple mechanics.
  • DayvDayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daige wrote:
    I would love to hear some of the devs' opinions on this. What is right and what is wrong? What is a bug and what isn't? I'm pretty sure that "Gray Widow" actually had the right color matches a long time ago, I'm sure I saw it, but then the red was changed to blue (but the other's remained) and now all her colors match OBW's abilities instead.
    I've been playing since October, and GSBW was the first 3* I got enough covers of to use. She's always had weird match damage as far as I've known.

    The MPQ wiki backs this up: the first version of the page with her match damage, from November 17 2013, shows the Purple/Blue/Black damage:

    http://marvelpuzzlequest.wikia.com/wiki ... oldid=4439

    OBW wasn't introduced long after that, so it's possible something happened while she was being developed, but it seems unlikely.

    If I were to venture a wild-assed-guess, it would be this: GSBW was original envisioned as a Pu/Blu/Bla character, but then it was decided that her offensive skills were more green/red in nature. The skills got redefined before release, but the match damage didn't. Then, when OBW came out, she got a power set that more closely matched the colors originally chosen for GSBW.
  • She's a bit hard to play still. Great skills but it plays towards late game...and it can be a challenge to amass 19 green. Same problem happens with Cap A. Yellow. it just costs too much. I think it actually ties for the most expensive skill in the game...

    Not that useful against pve either as tile destruction is great but if it costs too much...the tiles will tick down anyways before you can snipe them.
  • She's a bit hard to play still. Great skills but it plays towards late game...and it can be a challenge to amass 19 green. Same problem happens with Cap A. Yellow. it just costs too much. I think it actually ties for the most expensive skill in the game...

    Not that useful against pve either as tile destruction is great but if it costs too much...the tiles will tick down anyways before you can snipe them.

    I pair her with Hood in pve, 90% of my fights end with a big green nuke. It is not that tough to get her purple matches to fuel dropping 6 green on the board, and when that happens it is usually enough to power her nuke. so you get a cascade from 12+ green combinations, then a possible cascade, then a 3500x3 hit, then another possible cascade and clear the board of whatever the worst enemy countdown/powerups are around.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    She's a bit hard to play still. Great skills but it plays towards late game...and it can be a challenge to amass 19 green. Same problem happens with Cap A. Yellow. it just costs too much. I think it actually ties for the most expensive skill in the game...

    Not that useful against pve either as tile destruction is great but if it costs too much...the tiles will tick down anyways before you can snipe them.

    Nope, that would go to IM40's Ballistic Salvo as most expensive skill in the game at 20AP
  • Actually a bit more expensive than that if you factor in the lost AP once you use it.
  • I'm gonna try to take everyone away from the whole healing fiasco for a sec because I need a little advice. If the reward for the gsbw event is someone I want, should I spend most of my 44k iso getting her to level 77 (not including the cover I'm gonna get from hotshot)? She's at 2-2-4 right now, if that makes a difference. And yes, I realized I asked basically the same question about cmags, but this is for a completely different reason.
  • Der_LexDer_Lex Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,035 Chairperson of the Boards
    With only 2 green (which doesn't become good until you hit the full 5 and it attacks the entire enemy team), I'm afraid her only function in your team will be as a green generator with her purple, so I don't think leveling her would be an investment that's worth it. My advice is to pair her up with someone who can use that green (thor, punisher) and someone who can tank purple for her, and hope for the best.
  • I would not put ISO in her unless you plan to play with her elsewhere and regularly. 8-cover Mags is usable, BW not so much and if that's all your ISO it can go to a better place for sure.

    For the tournament my estimate is that old players will have full gsbw and others negligible one rarely something in between so you will not stand out that much and would be considered more formidable than lower ones. I doubt we'll have desert in which case her levels are mostly irrelevant as you'll resort to purple and give green to others on attack while on defense pure ballast.
  • Thanks for the advice, I'll probably pair her with some combo of Thor hulk and cmags and let them do the work.
  • user311user311 Posts: 482 Mover and Shaker
    You should be able to judge in the Juggernaut PVE if you should level her or not considering she is boosted there. If you don't like her with the boosts then spending your ISO isnt going to make you any happier. Its probably too late in the PVE now due to scaling to take advantage of leveling her further. Usually these things run in cycles, so youve had her in lightning rounds, PVE and next in PVP. Probably wont need for another couple weeks. IMO I would spend elsewhere for the time being.
  • Just to check is GSBW skill colour and damage colours different an error or is it done on purpose?
  • CraggerCragger Age Unconfirmed Posts: 316 Mover and Shaker
    SHHHH. She is under cover. Don't blow it.
  • She is not the only one. CMags third color is yellow and not purple.
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