Legendary Tokens - Classic vs Current

Polares

As always, it depends on where you are from and what do you want to do next. Some people is pulling classics because they 'don't care' about 5s right now, they are slowly building their roster, and they don't plan to put too much iso into them. Those people will certainly benefit more from classic. Others have one or two champed, but the others are quite less covered. Those ones should probably save and go for the LLs. Others like me chave already some champed and are close to champ others in classics. Those should continue. It all depends.

Even though my brain says CLs until I get one or two covers more for my GG(12) and IM46(10), I am really considering going LLs because I want to champ BB, and I doubt I am ever going to be able to when he goes to CLs. I also hate that I already have 5 covers in one color of GG, IM46 and Spidey, and I don't want to waste 5 covers pulling those colors again

It also depends A LOT on who is in LLs. When IM and BB were both there, those were 2 top tier chars, so it was a perfect time to go LLs. Right now I won't do it, but If Strange is top tier (I think he will be top tier but just for PvE :S) it would be a really nice moment with BB being top tier and BW also being quite good.

But I want to give a new view to the question, something that makes CLs more interesting. Thing is that top tier 4s are better than 5s at the 420+ level!!! So, 7500 CPs will give you 300 LLs or 375 CLs. This is a 75 token difference, this is 70 more 4 covers. In average this is two more covers for all 4s, but in reality it will be 4-5 covers more to some of your 4s. It might not be enough to make a difference, but getting your best 4s to 320 level is something that can make a big difference in PvP. Even for good tier 4s, it gives you A LOT more options for PvE. I am not afraid of fighting any 450 level 5 in PvP, but those 450 level 4s? No thanxs. I don't want to fight Iceman or Rhulk at those levels, they are far more dangerous than PH or Spidey.

So, those extra 75 pulls might make a difference in your 4 roster, and I think this is also worth considering. If you already have some top tier 4s in the 305-310 range, pulling extra covers for them might make them really useful even for 5 MMR Hell !

Fightmastermpq

That is where I disagree a bit with jobob. Most of us won't be able to champ every 4*. Their release rate is faster than the ISO earn rate making it impossible to ever catch up without spending quite a bit. I think this is another area where we often give poor advice. The 4* tier isn't like the 3* tier where a lot of people are getting to the point where they have every 3* champed for the purposes of the champ rewards, and it makes sense to do that because the 3*s get cycled through PvP events, they all see play, and we all see regular consistent rewards for them in both progression and placement. Eventually max champed boosted 4*s will start to overpower maxed 5*s in PvP. I've already started to see this on a few occasions from some whales and those 450+ (I forget how high they get when boosted) 4*s are scary. So when thinking long term it doesn't make sense to champ all the 4*s. Just like when you started your 3*->4* transition you picked from what you had to champ the best 4*s (I still have a fully covered IW at level 70, and Fury at 111 for example). And IMO we should be using the same discretion when picking what 4*s to champ, because eventually those champs will see PvP play as they begin to overpower maxed 5*s when boosted.

TL;DR - We shouldn't place too much emphasis on "wasting" 4* LT pulls of weak characters as we should have no intention of ever champing them anyway.

Hendross

LordXberk wrote:

At some point, they'll have to deal w/ the dilution of the classics, right? I mean, it'll either be a split of the classics into 2 (or more) token types OR classic 5*s will need to become rewards from progression or placement.

Don't assume they'll address any known issues, history repeats itself.

GrumpySmurf1002

Fightmastermpq wrote:

Most of us won't be able to champ every 4*. Their release rate is faster than the ISO earn rate making it impossible to ever catch up without spending quite a bit.

For anyone earning enough CP to be having a serious conundrum over which token to use, I don't think this is true any more. Since they introduced Rank and Clearance Levels I've been ahead of pace, and there are definitely players that earn faster than me b/c I barely play the LRs.

Fightmastermpq wrote:

TL;DR - We shouldn't place too much emphasis on "wasting" 4* LT pulls of weak characters as we should have no intention of ever champing them anyway.

Like anything else I think it's about priorities. Selling a 4* nets more iso than farming one (just like the other tiers), so if Iso is your need, selling 4* covers is fine. It's about the other rewards that come with champing. A weak 4* still yields all the HP/CP/LTs that a top one does, and ultimately the goal should be to get all of those rewards. The more characters generating those resources, the more pulls you get.

jobob

Fightmastermpq wrote:

That is where I disagree a bit with jobob. Most of us won't be able to champ every 4*. Their release rate is faster than the ISO earn rate making it impossible to ever catch up without spending quite a bit. I think this is another area where we often give poor advice. The 4* tier isn't like the 3* tier where a lot of people are getting to the point where they have every 3* champed for the purposes of the champ rewards, and it makes sense to do that because the 3*s get cycled through PvP events, they all see play, and we all see regular consistent rewards for them in both progression and placement. Eventually max champed boosted 4*s will start to overpower maxed 5*s in PvP. I've already started to see this on a few occasions from some whales and those 450+ (I forget how high they get when boosted) 4*s are scary. So when thinking long term it doesn't make sense to champ all the 4*s. Just like when you started your 3*->4* transition you picked from what you had to champ the best 4*s (I still have a fully covered IW at level 70, and Fury at 111 for example). And IMO we should be using the same discretion when picking what 4*s to champ, because eventually those champs will see PvP play as they begin to overpower maxed 5*s when boosted.

The 4* absolutely do overtake 5*, and usually when you see me, I'll be running a 5* and a 495 4* if I have one during a PVP.

Note that I am not recommending that you champ every 4* before you pull. I said my rule of thumb is that I want HALF to be useful, either for covers or for champ levels. I still think that's a good call. And, whether you want to champ them or not, it DOES improve your shot at 5* by being able to get more LT and CP out of the process.

And, sure, if you sell 200 4*, that's 200k ISO, but if you use them to champ, you'll probably get at least that much ISO back from champ levels + SHIELD rank increase. Plus, you get all the LT and CP, and end game it's the 5* that you are really chasing.

Fightmastermpq

jobob wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

That is where I disagree a bit with jobob. Most of us won't be able to champ every 4*. Their release rate is faster than the ISO earn rate making it impossible to ever catch up without spending quite a bit. I think this is another area where we often give poor advice. The 4* tier isn't like the 3* tier where a lot of people are getting to the point where they have every 3* champed for the purposes of the champ rewards, and it makes sense to do that because the 3*s get cycled through PvP events, they all see play, and we all see regular consistent rewards for them in both progression and placement. Eventually max champed boosted 4*s will start to overpower maxed 5*s in PvP. I've already started to see this on a few occasions from some whales and those 450+ (I forget how high they get when boosted) 4*s are scary. So when thinking long term it doesn't make sense to champ all the 4*s. Just like when you started your 3*->4* transition you picked from what you had to champ the best 4*s (I still have a fully covered IW at level 70, and Fury at 111 for example). And IMO we should be using the same discretion when picking what 4*s to champ, because eventually those champs will see PvP play as they begin to overpower maxed 5*s when boosted.

The 4* absolutely do overtake 5*, and usually when you see me, I'll be running a 5* and a 495 4* if I have one during a PVP.

Note that I am not recommending that you champ every 4* before you pull. I said my rule of thumb is that I want HALF to be useful, either for covers or for champ levels. I still think that's a good call. And, whether you want to champ them or not, it DOES improve your shot at 5* by being able to get more LT and CP out of the process.

And, sure, if you sell 200 4*, that's 200k ISO, but if you use them to champ, you'll probably get at least that much ISO back from champ levels + SHIELD rank increase. Plus, you get all the LT and CP, and end game it's the 5* that you are really chasing.

Does a boosted 370 4* really top out at 495???

I just think that having half of them useful is a bit extreme since IMO half of them aren't really that good. In fact, for those of us solidly in the 5* transition - our 4* rosters are mostly complete anyway. Afterall they were good enough to get us to the 5* tier, so if these are the max champed 4*s that we end up with in the end, they will likely be good enough there as well. I think there is something to be said for the "irrelevant 7" and other new characters - Peggy for example is absolutely worth champing, along with a couple others and likely more to come, but if you made it this far without ever champing Ant-Man, Ghost Rider, Carnage, Flaptain, and other middle of the road type 4*s I don't think it's really worth going back and champing them just for the champion rewards and the desire to not waste their covers should you pull them from LTs.

westnyy2

I think champing your 4's should be a priority. I believe there is plenty of ISO in the game right now but you do have to work for it. I am a poor example but looking around at alliance mates who have spent a little (meaning maybe during a sale) and play PVE and PVP for progression, they are down to about 10 4's left to champ. That includes the most recent 5 which are not even covered. That isn't bad at all.

Obviously, the more you champ then the more chances you will have at 5's and other rewards. You have to waste some covers but you can minimize it. If you are in 4 to 5 transition then all the key 4's are done. After that it doesn't matter if you champ Reed or Miles first. Follow the covers that get you more rewards. That will in turn just speed up the process to get better rewards. Once you get in the 300's with a 4, the rewards start getting real nice.

BassMuffinFIve

Fightmastermpq wrote:

That is where I disagree a bit with jobob. Most of us won't be able to champ every 4*. Their release rate is faster than the ISO earn rate making it impossible to ever catch up without spending quite a bit. I think this is another area where we often give poor advice. The 4* tier isn't like the 3* tier where a lot of people are getting to the point where they have every 3* champed for the purposes of the champ rewards, and it makes sense to do that because the 3*s get cycled through PvP events, they all see play, and we all see regular consistent rewards for them in both progression and placement. Eventually max champed boosted 4*s will start to overpower maxed 5*s in PvP. I've already started to see this on a few occasions from some whales and those 450+ (I forget how high they get when boosted) 4*s are scary. So when thinking long term it doesn't make sense to champ all the 4*s. Just like when you started your 3*->4* transition you picked from what you had to champ the best 4*s (I still have a fully covered IW at level 70, and Fury at 111 for example). And IMO we should be using the same discretion when picking what 4*s to champ, because eventually those champs will see PvP play as they begin to overpower maxed 5*s when boosted.

TL;DR - We shouldn't place too much emphasis on "wasting" 4* LT pulls of weak characters as we should have no intention of ever champing them anyway.

Ideally all characters should be a viable, fun, powerful option. There should be no dumpster tier. So this strategy of not leveling the bad characters wouldn't even be viable if this game were balanced in any way at all. Not a knock on the strat, just an observation of the game state

Fightmastermpq

westnyy2 wrote:

I think champing your 4's should be a priority. I believe there is plenty of ISO in the game right now but you do have to work for it. I am a poor example but looking around at alliance mates who have spent a little (meaning maybe during a sale) and play PVE and PVP for progression, they are down to about 10 4's left to champ. That includes the most recent 5 which are not even covered. That isn't bad at all.

Obviously, the more you champ then the more chances you will have at 5's and other rewards. You have to waste some covers but you can minimize it. If you are in 4 to 5 transition then all the key 4's are done. After that it doesn't matter if you champ Reed or Miles first. Follow the covers that get you more rewards. That will in turn just speed up the process to get better rewards. Once you get in the 300's with a 4, the rewards start getting real nice.

This is the type of advice that I'm trying to avoid giving. What about someone like Moon Knight? I just pulled my 13th cover for him yesterday. I don't have a 14th yet, but I just sold covers of 4thor, Elektra, and X-23 because they really aren't all that great, and if I am going to champ another 4* it's going to be Moon Knight. Because I don't want to find myself in a situation 2 years from now where I'm saying "man, Moon Knight is boosted this week, but instead of having a 495 Moon Knight to use I've got a 495 Reed or Miles or Elektra collecting dust because I didn't think it mattered which one I champed first."

HaywireII

I just champed my seventh four star character this morning with another four waiting on ISO and plenty more at 12/11/10 covers. My five star characters are all just ugly blots on my roster there to remind me how frustrating random numbers are. Phoenix at 3/2/1 and OML at 2/0/0 just aren't going to do anything for me. The only strategy that makes sense to me is hoard tokens while I'm waiting on ISO and opening classics when I'm not. There's a huge difference in gameplay to me when one of my four star champs is boosted for an event and when none are. Until something changes this is all just a 4 star game for me and classic legends give me more covers than latest do.

GrimSkald

I don't see why people are dissing Miles. He hits like a cement truck when he's boosted. I generally run him 5/3/5, make extensive use of his red (6+K damage plus 1 turn stun for 6 red,) play around with his purple, and then hit someone for 13-20k damage. IMHO he's not a bad character at all - not top tier, but I'd put him above the median in the Mid-Tier. Granted, what I think is "mid tier" is the majority of the 4*s...

I'm finding this conversation fascinating. Speaking for myself, I'm an extremely solid 4* player - 25 champed at this time. I have no 5*s champed, unfortunately - I had some bad luck with pulls before they changed the odds and as a result I have 44 covers scattered around the 7 "Classic" 5*s. The most I have in any one is the Silver Surfer with 11. Phoenix has 9 (but is 5/1/3 so I deem her useless,) and OML is 4/2/2 - he's the only one I have level maxxed at this time.

I'm chasing Black Bolt at the moment - I have him at 1/5/2 so I'd really like to get his green up a bit then level him to meet OML - as a result I'm pulling latest. I'm considering holding off until Strange, though I'd really like a purple Banner (he's 2/4/0) just to play around with him...

westnyy2

Fightmastermpq wrote:

This is the type of advice that I'm trying to avoid giving. What about someone like Moon Knight? I just pulled my 13th cover for him yesterday. I don't have a 14th yet, but I just sold covers of 4thor, Elektra, and X-23 because they really aren't all that great, and if I am going to champ another 4* it's going to be Moon Knight. Because I don't want to find myself in a situation 2 years from now where I'm saying "man, Moon Knight is boosted this week, but instead of having a 495 Moon Knight to use I've got a 495 Reed or Miles or Elektra collecting dust because I didn't think it mattered which one I champed first."

It's served me well and I do see it working with others. You never know, in two years some of those characters may get buffs and then you're ahead of the curve. Nothing is constant or consistent in this game, this much we know.

Thinking of your situation, I would still follow the covers. I don't know your PVE status but I know you regularly hit 1200 in PVP and finish with good placement. You already have the characters to do so. Going forward, just look at the plain math. I know many who would argue that X23 and 4Thor are better than Moon Knight. Apparently Black Bolt and 4Thor are a force. But regardless, if you don't use them regularly then who cares? The quicker you champ anyone, the quicker your rewards increase. There is no guarantee your Moon Knight who was champed a couple weeks later than your Elektra won't have more covers in 2 years. It's still RNG.

Let me ask you this. Who are your highest 3's? Mine are the one that I get from flipping 2's. After that, it's a **** shoot. Iron Fist was my very first champion of all my characters. Right now, he is my third lowest 3 star. Squirrel Girl was my last 3 to champ and she is a measly 8 covers behind him. My highest 3 overall is 266 so I've opened and won quite a few 3's since the champions features. 4Thor was my highest 4 star at one point at 325. She is now 8th at 330 while my Thing is now 345. That is quite the swing in a short amount of time. Don't overthink it, follow the math.

thanos8587

"He hits like a cement truck when he's boosted"

this describes 80%+ of the four star tier. unfortunately with the number of 4* characters, this means they are only boosted one in every TEN weeks. thats once every 2 1/2 months, roughly 5 times a year.

in other words.. well there are no other words. at a certain point you champ more 4*s because theres nothing else to do with your iso. and once every 10 weeks you actually use them because unboosted most cant be used in pvp unless you want your teeth kicked in.

westnyy2

GrimSkald wrote:

I don't see why people are dissing Miles. He hits like a cement truck when he's boosted. I generally run him 5/3/5, make extensive use of his red (6+K damage plus 1 turn stun for 6 red,) play around with his purple, and then hit someone for 13-20k damage. IMHO he's not a bad character at all - not top tier, but I'd put him above the median in the Mid-Tier. Granted, what I think is "mid tier" is the majority of the 4*s...

I'm finding this conversation fascinating. Speaking for myself, I'm an extremely solid 4* player - 25 champed at this time. I have no 5*s champed, unfortunately - I had some bad luck with pulls before they changed the odds and as a result I have 44 covers scattered around the 7 "Classic" 5*s. The most I have in any one is the Silver Surfer with 11. Phoenix has 9 (but is 5/1/3 so I deem her useless,) and OML is 4/2/2 - he's the only one I have level maxxed at this time.

I'm chasing Black Bolt at the moment - I have him at 1/5/2 so I'd really like to get his green up a bit then level him to meet OML - as a result I'm pulling latest. I'm considering holding off until Strange, though I'd really like a purple Banner (he's 2/4/0) just to play around with him...

I like Miles too but he simply isn't the meta. 5's are and a handful of 4's. I just chose him at random. I use him as much as I use Reed theses days unfortunately.

My Black Bolt had 4 covers a little over a month ago when an alliance mate convinced me to switch over to LL. He is now sitting at 4/5/3 level 435. Another bonus for LL is that D3 will swap covers for you. I pulled my 6th black Sunday night and had them change it to my 3rd yellow. Also in my time of trying to cover BB, I naturally completed Banner and am up to 9 covers on Natasha. I did buy 2 starks during the sale but no other purchases have been made in that time.

Polares

westnyy2 wrote:

...
My Black Bolt had 4 covers a little over a month ago when an alliance mate convinced me to switch over to LL. He is now sitting at 4/5/3 level 435. Another bonus for LL is that D3 will swap covers for you. I pulled my 6th black Sunday night and had them change it to my 3rd yellow. Also in my time of trying to cover BB, I naturally completed Banner and am up to 9 covers on Natasha. I did buy 2 starks during the sale but no other purchases have been made in that time.

Man, comments like this really makes me wonder If I should go all out on LTs until BB is phased out. Just in one month of playing you managed to get 8 BB covers? No clubs? Just with the regular 1000-1500 CPs? (I guess you were lucky with your pulls...).

My BB has 6 covers so If he is still in LTs for two months I might also be able to get him to the 11-13 cover range... Which I would never be able to when he goes to CLs

GrimSkald

westnyy2 wrote:

I like Miles too but he simply isn't the meta. 5's are and a handful of 4's. I just chose him at random. I use him as much as I use Reed theses days unfortunately.

Fair enough. Since my only usable 5* at the moment is OML, he most certainly is in the Meta for me. I generally use OML and one other boosted 4*. I'll take a boosted Miles over an unboosted Cyclops or Iceman any day.

An another note, I will say that I've been champing my 4*s at a decent rate - the fact that it takes so long to cover them all gives you a certain amount of leeway in level-maxxing them. At this time I have only 6 4*s that are cover-maxxed but not level-maxxed. I may never fully catch up, but that's a rather minimal waste, and I can always hold off on drawing LTs (in whatever form,) whenever I pull a 4* I haven't champed yet. At the moment I'll discard one, but if I get two I'll give it some time.

westnyy2

Yep, a little over a month. I do have the luxury of being at or past the 2nd 4 star cover on most of my 3's so I'm getting added bonuses there too. I am now getting the 2nd round of LT's from 3's and with all the extra 4 star covers I get an LT every 10 levels. It really adds up. I was skeptical of leveling the Reed's, Sue's and Cho's of the world but the Shield level iso bonus made is silly not to. I am to the point now that there are only 4 unusable covers for me in this game. 2 of those are Kate Bishop. I am making so much more progress now than in any of my buy club days over the winter.

Fightmastermpq

westnyy2 wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

This is the type of advice that I'm trying to avoid giving. What about someone like Moon Knight? I just pulled my 13th cover for him yesterday. I don't have a 14th yet, but I just sold covers of 4thor, Elektra, and X-23 because they really aren't all that great, and if I am going to champ another 4* it's going to be Moon Knight. Because I don't want to find myself in a situation 2 years from now where I'm saying "man, Moon Knight is boosted this week, but instead of having a 495 Moon Knight to use I've got a 495 Reed or Miles or Elektra collecting dust because I didn't think it mattered which one I champed first."

It's served me well and I do see it working with others. You never know, in two years some of those characters may get buffs and then you're ahead of the curve. Nothing is constant or consistent in this game, this much we know.

Thinking of your situation, I would still follow the covers. I don't know your PVE status but I know you regularly hit 1200 in PVP and finish with good placement. You already have the characters to do so. Going forward, just look at the plain math. I know many who would argue that X23 and 4Thor are better than Moon Knight. Apparently Black Bolt and 4Thor are a force. But regardless, if you don't use them regularly then who cares? The quicker you champ anyone, the quicker your rewards increase. There is no guarantee your Moon Knight who was champed a couple weeks later than your Elektra won't have more covers in 2 years. It's still RNG.

Let me ask you this. Who are your highest 3's? Mine are the one that I get from flipping 2's. After that, it's a **** shoot. Iron Fist was my very first champion of all my characters. Right now, he is my third lowest 3 star. Squirrel Girl was my last 3 to champ and she is a measly 8 covers behind him. My highest 3 overall is 266 so I've opened and won quite a few 3's since the champions features. 4Thor was my highest 4 star at one point at 325. She is now 8th at 330 while my Thing is now 345. That is quite the swing in a short amount of time. Don't overthink it, follow the math.

Here I'm operating under the assumption that there are going to be 4*s that I never champ. Ever. Because there are more 4*s than there is ISO. I don't mean to dis Miles, but for me he falls into the "never champ" category. If I thought I could champ all the 4*s then you are 100% correct - champ them as you get them to start the rewards rolling in sooner rather than later. 2 years worth of RNG will make the timing of when you champed one 4* over another irrelevant.

My math tells me that I'll never champ all the 4*s and so to have a stronger max champed 4* roster later I need to be more selective in which 4*s I champ now. I'm considering going through my hoard in about two months time in an effort to try and get a usable Black Bolt before he leaves the Latest pool. To have enough ISO to champ three 5*s I figure is going to take me every bit of that 2 month timeframe. So over the next 2 months we will see 3 or 4 more 4*s released while all the ISO I might spend to champ Miles or 4Thor or whoever instead must be saved for my new 5*s.

Phumade

Polares wrote:

westnyy2 wrote:

...
My Black Bolt had 4 covers a little over a month ago when an alliance mate convinced me to switch over to LL. He is now sitting at 4/5/3 level 435. Another bonus for LL is that D3 will swap covers for you. I pulled my 6th black Sunday night and had them change it to my 3rd yellow. Also in my time of trying to cover BB, I naturally completed Banner and am up to 9 covers on Natasha. I did buy 2 starks during the sale but no other purchases have been made in that time.

Man, comments like this really makes me wonder If I should go all out on LTs until BB is phased out. Just in one month of playing you managed to get 8 BB covers? No clubs? Just with the regular 1000-1500 CPs? (I guess you were lucky with your pulls...).

My BB has 6 covers so If he is still in LTs for two months I might also be able to get him to the 11-13 cover range... Which I would never be able to when he goes to CLs

Westnny and I are in the same alliance. The big thing to remember is that we both play pvp, pve, and lr pretty consistently. Plus with all the 3* and over 75% of the 4* champed he's high enough in the champ ladder to get amazing CP and Iso awards. My 3* storm just hit 247 lvls and dropped 8cp.

once your over the roster development thresholds, bulk covers easily generate the most consistent awards in the game.

2500cp a month is a very reasonable goal for a roster that plays T5 PVP/T10 PVE plus LRs competitively.
with a functional 2* farm, all 3* champed, over 75% of 4* champed without buy club spending.

Fightmastermpq

Phumade wrote:

once your over the roster development thresholds, bulk covers easily generate the most consistent awards in the game.

2500cp a month is a very reasonable goal for a roster that plays T5 PVP/T10 PVE plus LRs competitively.
with a functional 2* farm, all 3* champed, over 75% of 4* champed without buy club spending.

No, that's crazy. Maybe half that.