Competition

broll

optimus2861 wrote:

Pessi wrote:

I hate ignoring my family to play a mobile game.

Who are you people that can actually do this & get away with it for very long?

...

Even that was too much for my wife; she notices when I stare at the phone a little too much, and called me out on it last night after our son had gone to bed.

Yup, I've had at least two of those fights since I started playing this (about 6 months ago).

broll

JVReal wrote:

optimus2861 wrote:

Pessi wrote:

I hate ignoring my family to play a mobile game.

Who are you people that can actually do this & get away with it for very long? I didn't even grind Simulator for spit. Finished, I dunno, T500, T600, something like that. Mostly just doing 1-2 clears for some ISO and progression rewards. Even that was too much for my wife; she notices when I stare at the phone a little too much, and called me out on it last night after our son had gone to bed.

If I ever tried a 4-clear grind session in the presence of my wife I'd likely be staring down divorce papers. And you know what? Rightfully so.

If you've got a family, just don't try to play this game competitively. It's not worth it. You're not going to remember or care in your old age that you won 3 covers of some new character in some phone game from ~30 years ago.

And yeah, I gotta do better myself at putting the phone away at night.

With the new setup, if I wanted to, I could. I choose Slice 4, which is 11 pm for me. My youngest is in bed at 9, my other children are in high school/college and can put themselves to bed, my wife goes to bed at 10 and well asleep before 11. I could grind for hours for the start of the sub if I wanted to, but would rather get to the CP nodes and get the CP, then read a little and go to sleep. When my daughter goes to bed at 9, my wife puts on a show she enjoys and I sit in the living room with her listening to her show and playing my game. We go to bed, chat for a bit, say good night and she's out within minutes and I go back to finishing my end of sub grind. It was much more time consuming when it was every 8 hours, or every 2 hrs 40 minutes or whatever it used to be. THAT did not fit in my family and work schedule. THIS does. My limits for placement are self imposed. I value my night time hours as MY time, and I choose to use some of it on MPQ, some of it on watching a Netflix episode of a show my wife doesn't enjoy, and some of it reading a book. None of it interferes with Family time anymore. For me... this mode is much more family friendly.

I have the exact opposite experience. When it was every 8 hours it was easy for me to play some before bed when my wife was already asleep, play again when my wife was at work or still sleeping, again at lunch, etc. It's easier to steal 30-60 minutes here and there then to do a 2.5 - 4 hour chunk. Especially when the slices are lined up so that the only time I can get that chunk is by doing the 5pm slice so you're playing for hours during prime family time. I'm not suggesting we go back to the old method, this is still a better system, better fix is to continue the trend SCL started with putting better rewards in progression. I'd love to see PVE become 100% progression.

Fightmastermpq

broll wrote:

JVReal wrote:

optimus2861 wrote:

Pessi wrote:

I hate ignoring my family to play a mobile game.

Who are you people that can actually do this & get away with it for very long? I didn't even grind Simulator for spit. Finished, I dunno, T500, T600, something like that. Mostly just doing 1-2 clears for some ISO and progression rewards. Even that was too much for my wife; she notices when I stare at the phone a little too much, and called me out on it last night after our son had gone to bed.

If I ever tried a 4-clear grind session in the presence of my wife I'd likely be staring down divorce papers. And you know what? Rightfully so.

If you've got a family, just don't try to play this game competitively. It's not worth it. You're not going to remember or care in your old age that you won 3 covers of some new character in some phone game from ~30 years ago.

And yeah, I gotta do better myself at putting the phone away at night.

With the new setup, if I wanted to, I could. I choose Slice 4, which is 11 pm for me. My youngest is in bed at 9, my other children are in high school/college and can put themselves to bed, my wife goes to bed at 10 and well asleep before 11. I could grind for hours for the start of the sub if I wanted to, but would rather get to the CP nodes and get the CP, then read a little and go to sleep. When my daughter goes to bed at 9, my wife puts on a show she enjoys and I sit in the living room with her listening to her show and playing my game. We go to bed, chat for a bit, say good night and she's out within minutes and I go back to finishing my end of sub grind. It was much more time consuming when it was every 8 hours, or every 2 hrs 40 minutes or whatever it used to be. THAT did not fit in my family and work schedule. THIS does. My limits for placement are self imposed. I value my night time hours as MY time, and I choose to use some of it on MPQ, some of it on watching a Netflix episode of a show my wife doesn't enjoy, and some of it reading a book. None of it interferes with Family time anymore. For me... this mode is much more family friendly.

I have the exact opposite experience. When it was every 8 hours it was easy for me to play some before bed when my wife was already asleep, play again when my wife was at work or still sleeping, again at lunch, etc. It's easier to steal 30-60 minutes here and there then to do a 2.5 - 4 hour chunk. Especially when the slices are lined up so that the only time I can get that chunk is by doing the 5pm slice so you're playing for hours during prime family time. I'm not suggesting we go back to the old method, this is still a better system, better fix is to continue the trend SCL started with putting better rewards in progression. I'd love to see PVE become 100% progression.

I think you are in the minority on this one. Most people have a solid chunk of time during the day that they can use to play, rather than in spurts all day. Most people are also casual, so being able to get your points whenever you have time is a huge win for the casual player.

broll

Fightmastermpq wrote:

I think you are in the minority on this one. Most people have a solid chunk of time during the day that they can use to play, rather than in spurts all day. Most people are also casual, so being able to get your points whenever you have time is a huge win for the casual player.

Not sure I understand that logic. Spending 4 hours straight a day playing the same game is casual, but playing a mobile game here and there when you get free time (the way 99% of people play casual phone games) isn't. Most people I know usually play phone games when they are waiting in lines or taking a ****. Something that happens at random spurts during the day.

Fightmastermpq

broll wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

I think you are in the minority on this one. Most people have a solid chunk of time during the day that they can use to play, rather than in spurts all day. Most people are also casual, so being able to get your points whenever you have time is a huge win for the casual player.

Not sure I understand that logic. Spending 4 hours straight a day playing the same game is casual, but playing a mobile game here and there when you get free time (the way 99% of people play casual phone games) isn't. Most people I know usually play phone games when they are waiting in lines or taking a tinykitty. Something that happens at random spurts during the day.

I was talking about both types of players, and why the 24 hr refresh is better for both.

Most people have a solid chunk of time they can use to play competitively if they wish - right before bed, after work, early in the morning, etc. The 24 hr refresh works well for these people and allows them to play competitively.

Casual players aren't getting green check marks anyway, so when they pick up their phone to squeeze a fight in here and there during the day getting full points for those battles is good for them as well.

Very few people have about 20-30 minutes at exactly 8 hour intervals throughout the day to make that kind of a schedule more preferable to them.

Jdob84

Don't get me wrong... I love this game. But, I cant spend 3+ hours on a game per day to get t100 or better placement on a new cover. This is the exact reason I stopped playing my xbox (Halo and COD). It made me spend too much time away from my wife and made me feel guilty and selfish.

I really hope the new PVE format stays because then I can get the prizes I want to, when I can fit it in my schedule (I shouldn't have to schedule my life around a video game..no matter HOW good it is). If it comes down to choosing my family, or my job before a game...well life is going to win EVERY time for me. I just hope the devs understand that.

Just my .02 cents...end of rant.

GurlBYE

Interesting discussion but 3 points.

1- It's clearly time for change pve's structure is designed for burnout as it stands. I get bored after 2 clears let alone 4-6.

2-Events need to be along the lines of antman, cho, with regular progression

3- Whales, or "the people who keep the game alive" bite us in the butt here big time.

In most games you don't support it when you don't like it. Whales kinda whale regardless so change is glacial.

Something has clearly changed in the last few months but the structure of the game needs a huge amount of work.

Why does everyone need to work so hard for 4 stars when there are nearly 40. and 3 covers does nothing.

kobu

I think the overall consensus is that there is still too much of a time sink for Story mode if you want to compete at all, no matter how you slice it. I'd really like to see a non-timer based scoring system AND a reduction in total times needed to run a node. Anything to get the time chunks reduced. Even limiting yourself to 6 clears to just get all rewards gets tedious.

broll

Fightmastermpq wrote:

broll wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

I think you are in the minority on this one. Most people have a solid chunk of time during the day that they can use to play, rather than in spurts all day. Most people are also casual, so being able to get your points whenever you have time is a huge win for the casual player.

Not sure I understand that logic. Spending 4 hours straight a day playing the same game is casual, but playing a mobile game here and there when you get free time (the way 99% of people play casual phone games) isn't. Most people I know usually play phone games when they are waiting in lines or taking a tinykitty. Something that happens at random spurts during the day.

I was talking about both types of players, and why the 24 hr refresh is better for both.

Most people have a solid chunk of time they can use to play competitively if they wish - right before bed, after work, early in the morning, etc. The 24 hr refresh works well for these people and allows them to play competitively.

Casual players aren't getting green check marks anyway, so when they pick up their phone to squeeze a fight in here and there during the day getting full points for those battles is good for them as well.

Very few people have about 20-30 minutes at exactly 8 hour intervals throughout the day to make that kind of a schedule more preferable to them.

Sorry I see your point now. Still, they devs said one of the goals of the new PvE format was to play when you want. If that's true it's a failure. It's still requiring you to play at certain times, the times just moved. It's better for some and worse for others. A method where it truly didn't matter should be better for everyone.

dsds

Yes there is too much time sink. Totally agree. But with PVE, I think you should think of it as getting progression only. Placement rewards are for people who can fit this game into their schedule unfortunately. Progression rewards aren't too bad. 25CP, a 2* cover, a 3* cover, about 50-100 hero points and a bunch of iso the end for 2hours of play per day without having to follow a schedule. It could be better, but it was a lot worse before. I think I've gotten over 100,000 iso so far in this anniversary!

The Best Friends PVP is broken I think. I hope they fix that. I had problems finding suitable targets and had to actually gamble fighting teams that were above me 100+ levels. I chose high level targets and lost 50% of the time but worked out as my gain in points were several times more than my loss in points. (eg. Lose a battle, lost 5-15 pts. Win a battle, gain 40-60 pts). Tactical retreat was very useful. Overall it was a huge drain on health packs due to how many times I lost fights. Only made it to 500pts though. Only had a few champed 4*, not usable 5*. Used 4thor and IM40. Really glad oml doesn't have a bunch of health at level 300.

Disclaimer, I was top 20 in simulator and got 2 covers of gwenpool

SnowcaTT

Calnexin wrote:

Anyone who's like me - a guy with kids, a job, and responsibilities - give up hope of top 20 placement.

T20? HA HA HA HA! I'm surprised when I hit T50 anymore. I gave up PVE a couple years back, the time sensitive demand is ridiculous.

Once again D3 (I should go link the 300+ like thread with it): PROGRESSION ONLY FROM PVE.

SCL goes part-way there! And....oh right, it is off AGAIN for a couple of times in a row, and we're -STILL- only at SCL6 max.

I've re-started "playing" PVE since they put max progression at 4x clears. Playing in quotes there - not how D3 intends you to I guess, I do 4x everything 6x easy when S1 starts, and then I'm done. I don't play for any placement, any placement I get is a nice side-bonus. To look at placement rewards and try to aim for them with any regularity is a life/time-draining misery.

Calnexin

D26 wrote:

I mean, I hate to say it, but... duh.

The smartest thing I learned to do was stop playing for placement in pve. I, too, have kids and a life, and I can't do optimal timing. I also wouldn't want too, because it sounds so tedious, almost like work. I'd rather play and have some fun.

I got away from PvE for awhile. A long while. Gwenpool was the first one I earned off the T100 in the last... 6? I don't know. The last one I remember getting from their event was Venom. Everything past then has been RNG.

My point is your point - it feels like work. I can't place in PvP, because my 8-cover OML and mish-mash of champed 4*s punt my scaling to ~ 2 hr for a 4-clear, and give me champed 4* / 6-9 cover 5*s in PvP. I'm not really enjoying it, and if I were, the options to progression require far more time than I have to commit.

It's not hard. It's just onerous.

Calnexin

Pylgrim wrote:

Speaking of roster, OP, looking at it I see that many, many of your championed 3*s have a poor combination of covers.

You are entirely correct. I've re-speced a few characters but largely left them unchecked since champing. I need to take a hard look at that. Given how little I use 3*s nowadays I don't think it'll help my experience. IF is there to double-tap Logan's strike tiles and clear out easy waves quickly. IM40 boosts Thor. Other than that, I don't use most of them outside DDQ unless they're boosted. Deadpool once a day for the points. Magneto for the damage. The rest are just opportunity-based to complete the rainbow, preferably boosted. If I had a few more hours a day I'd play around a bit but with the time I have I'm not going through 10 packs with my top-tier. Why slow down play?

Also a problem. It should be fun, right? Slow play should be good. But the timeline on incentives don't permit that. I could just ignore all of that, but then my progression goes out the window and I may as well just play something else.

Calnexin

j0nats wrote:

To the OP u cud try bracket sniping. Join line wait for bracket flip on final day. At least u wont need to grind 3 days straight

I don't think I can do that. I've got a few times during the day available to game. I can't hang out on Line and then devote the time to clear when the opportunity arises. If the opportunity isn't 6 am, 5:30 pm, or 10 pm EST, I just can't do it.

Calnexin

wirius wrote:

Progression rewards are for the sane. Competitive rewards are for the insane. That's fine, because it means the game caters to different types of players. If you're a guy with a life outside of MPQ, ignore the competitive side entirely and just focus on progression.

The inclusion of brand-new characters as essentials right after their release event exacerbates this. It's far more difficult to reach progression if 1-3k/sub is literally unachievable.

I normally don't put in that much effort. I play DDQ in the morning. Clear as much as I can in PvE and try to post up some points in PvP at night. Every once in a while I stumble upon enough free time to go on a tear, but even that's not enough.

Fightmastermpq

broll wrote:

Still, they devs said one of the goals of the new PvE format was to play when you want. If that's true it's a failure. It's still requiring you to play at certain times, the times just moved. It's better for some and worse for others. A method where it truly didn't matter should be better for everyone.

It's only requiring you to play at certain times for high level placement. In non-release events I usually T50 just by getting green check marks (typically not playing on a schedule) on the essential, trivial, and CP nodes. If you want to place high competitively (T20 for release, T10 for non-release) you need to stick to a strict schedule and play as quickly as possible.

We've all ranted and asked for progression only PvE, but we have that in the gauntlet and it kinda sucks. The "nice" part about placement rewards is that the total number of rewards is limited. If you switch to progression only literally everyone that plays can earn the rewards. Maybe that's OK, but personally I feel that limiting the rewards greatly adds value to them, and makes the game more enjoyable. I champed Dino this week with a handful of extra covers and all of a sudden he is boosted to 400 this event. That's awesome, and I busted my **** to get him there specifically for this event. But if EVERYONE had a 50k HP Dino to use this event it just wouldn't be as much fun.

If we switched to progression only PvE that was truly "play when you want," the only mechanism left to limit the number of rewards would likely turn it in to "play all the **** time" and that doesn't interest me. I like being able to "casually" get my green check marks and get all the CP out in non-release events, but then also still stick to a schedule for release events that allows me to place T20.

Calnexin

optimus2861 wrote:

If I ever tried a 4-clear grind session in the presence of my wife I'd likely be staring down divorce papers. And you know what? Rightfully so.

I can get away with it. I just have to make dinner, do the dishes, bathe the children, make their snack, play with them, and assist with bedtime.

Oh. Also earn 70% of the household income. That's important.

And do the yardwork. And grocery shopping.

I'll stop now.

jobob

Calnexin wrote:

I know how it works. I can't manage that. There are many people like me that can't, either. I like this game, but my life does not revolve around it. That's on me, but it's also a sign. People like me can't place well. I like competition, but even with this effort I barely made a cover. In most events it seems pointless to try.

I won't say I HATE PVE, because it can be fun. But, man, do I ever HATE competitive PVE.

Like you, I completely understand how to get first place. I just don't have the time, or the desire to do it. And, frankly, once you get a roster to a certain point, I think improving it puts you at a disadvantage. I have 10 champed 5* ranging from 460 - 490... PVE is a miserable slog and I think it's probably worse for me than someone with no champed 5*.

I decided I would give it a shot again during the Gwenpool release... so I started at minute 1, played through all the nodes the appropriate amount of times... got finished... and was ranked 131st in my bracket with 130 people ahead of me with the exact same score who just cleared it quicker. No thanks. And that's Day 1... that's the "Good" day.

Day 2 is so much worse. Because you spend the last hour (or two hours, if you have a full 5* roster) grinding the nodes to oblivion until... that... timer... hits... zero... And what's your reward? ROUND 2! Clear all these nodes multiple times as fast as you quickly can.

NO. THANK. YOU. Setting aside the fact that I really don't have time to play like that, and have a tough time coordinating a 3 hour block of my schedule around this game... I just don't want to. It's not fun at all for me.

This leads me to believe this game is for the "haves". Putting in the time is not enough. You have to have scads of free time, a powerful alliance, wads of cash, or some combination thereof to come out on top. I've been engaged with this game for almost two years, but I'm thinking my time would be better spent elsewhere.

PVP is for the "Haves" in terms of cash. Very little time required, but spending money is a big difference maker.
PVE is for the "Haves" in terms of time. Very little cash required, but it's all about having a significant block of free time that you can schedule every day at the right moment.

jobob

simonsez wrote:

optimus2861 wrote:

If you've got a family, just don't try to play this game competitively. It's not worth it. You're not going to remember or care in your old age that you won 3 covers of some new character in some phone game from ~30 years ago.

If my wife can spend 2 hours watching novellas, I can spend two hours grinding PvE...

Oh heck, I would gladly ignore my wife for hours on end to grind PVE or... well, really anything. It's my kids I don't want to put on the back burner for that amount of time. And doing it after they go to bed isn't really an option... bedtime falls about 30 minutes after first clear time for S4... and I can't stay up 4 more hours to wait on S5 and then spend another hour - hour and a half clearing.

mpqr7

I could've made top 100 if I had done clears 5 and 6, but instead I chose to actually go to sleep instead of pretending to go to sleep, and then doing them 20 minutes later while my husband was fast asleep, as I have done in the past and do sometimes. It gets embarrasing when he wakes up and asks why I'm playing the game and not sleeping lol.

I don't mind that I missed out on her, though. I'll get her soon enough.. I have plenty of other characters remaining who need my ISO!