Dino Vault = meh for vets now?

Vhailorx

Not a snarky title, just an honest question.

Observation 1: 9 dinos in a 100 item vault. So better odds of getting one than Anniversary 2 (especially the initial anniversary 2 tokens before players got really upset), but still not as high as Anniversary 1 (which offered a 14.x% drop rate). Though with the vault mechanic I would guess that Anniversary 3 offers the best chance yet of getting at least 1 dino cover.

But turning to the 'plight' of vets:

Observation 2:

If, like me, you already have dino at 13/13, but have not champed him, then the anniversary vault contains 9 more or less useless prizes that can never be fixed by resetting, they just suck. I would be way more interest in a 100 item vault with 16 random 4* covers than with 9 useless dino covers. Champing dino would solve that problem, but champing remains a huge resource investment. Is it really worth sinking 300+k into Dino when he is only available once a year, and is never essential?

Observation 3: Dino's recent buff actually makes him a much less useful character, taking away the one thing that made him unique without actually giving him good enough skills to be in the meta.

Conclusion: If dino is intentionally designed to be weak, then he really needs to be commensurately inexpensive. Even with the significant quality of life improvements made recently with respect to ISO, champing a 4* is still a serious investment, and not one that can easily be justifed for an intentionally underpowered trophy character.


Side note: My initial anniversary vault also had terrible random 4* covers. throwing 500 HP at the problem to reset is an easy call, but how much iso is it worth spending to make sure I get a decent slate of reward covers?

Edit: Really not trying to complain or suggest that the devs are doing a bad job. So far the anniversary has been much improved over last year, and I am looking forward to the next 10 days. I am just trying to provide some constructive criticism about small quality of life issues that emerge as the game's playerbase fragments with age (It's hard to make a single game that serves 2+ year players just as well as 100 day players.)

Thanos

Vhailorx wrote:

Not a snarky title, just an honest question.

Observation 1: 9 dinos in a 100 item vault. So better odds of getting one than Anniversary 2 (especially the initial anniversary 2 tokens before players got really upset), but still not as high as Anniversary 1 (which offered a 14.x% drop rate). Though with the vault mechanic I would guess that Anniversary 3 offers the best chance yet of getting at least 1 dino cover.

But turning to the 'plight' of vets:

Observation 2:

If, like me, you already have dino at 13/13, but have not champed him, then the anniversary vault contains 9 more or less useless prizes that can never be fixed by resetting, they just suck. I would be way more interest in a 100 item vault with 16 random 4* covers than with 9 useless dino covers. Champing dino would solve that problem, but champing remains a huge resource investment. Is it really worth sinking 300+k into Dino when he is only available once a year, and is never essential?

Observation 3: Dino's recent buff actually makes him a much less useful character, taking away the one thing that made him unique without actually giving him good enough skills to be in the meta.

Conclusion: If dino is intentionally designed to be weak, then he really needs to be commensurately inexpensive. Even with the significant quality of life improvements made recently with respect to ISO, champing a 4* is still a serious investment, and not one that can easily be justifed for an intentionally underpowered trophy character.


Side note: My initial anniversary vault also had terrible random 4* covers. throwing 500 HP at the problem to reset is an easy call, but how much iso is it worth spending to make sure I get a decent slate of reward covers?

Edit: Really not trying to complain or suggest that the devs are doing a bad job. So far the anniversary has been much improved over last year, and I am looking forward to the next 10 days. I am just trying to provide some constructive criticism about small quality of life issues that emerge as the game's playerbase fragments with age (It's hard to make a single game that serves 2+ year players just as well as 100 day players.)

I concur 100%. If they had made Dino's champ level rewards better than average i might've considered champing him. My anniversary vault is also mediocre. It would be nice if they offered one free reset of the vault. I'm much more likely to spend when there's stuff in the vault that i want/need.

Hyposphere6234

You have a fully covered Dino and are complaining that during an anniversary event, which is mainly when his covers are available, you can't use his rewards because you haven't champed him?

Conclusion: If you had champed him then these rewards would be useful for you and other vets. For non-vets these rewards are useful. Don't blame the developers for offering rewards for your own lack of foresight, especially when an anniversary event is looming which is pretty much the only time where his covers are attainable.

Revised edit: Vaults are designed for the many and not tailor made to cater for the elite.

drayviper32

Hyposphere6234 wrote:

You have a fully covered Dino and are complaining that during an anniversary event, which is mainly when his covers are available, you can't use his rewards because you haven't champed him?

Conclusion: If you had champed him then these rewards would be useful for you and other vets. For non-vets these rewards are useful. Don't blame the developers for offering rewards for your own lack of foresight, especially when an anniversary event is looming which is pretty much the only time where his covers are attainable.

Revised edit: Vaults are designed for the many and not tailor made to cater for the elite.

100% agreed. Why is anyone complaining about a vault that is meant for any level of play. Whoever has a fully covered Dinosaur shouldn't complain that there is 9 covers out 100 prizes in a vault. Your problem if you dont champ him to get extra rewards. There's plenty other great prizes in the vault so don't complain about something that doesn't please you! Pretty sure people that don't have a Dinosaur would like a better chance of getting one. Devil Dinosaur is trophy character. Sick of people complaining about things that don't matter. Just enjoy the game or find something else to do.

Dragon_Nexus

Vhailorx wrote:

NObservation 3: Dino's recent buff actually makes him a much less useful character, taking away the one thing that made him unique without actually giving him good enough skills to be in the meta.

Strongly disagree with him being less useful.
Buffed currently his red does 10k damage for 10AP. That's pretty good, really. 5.5K damage for 7 green. Woulda preferred it cost 6 green, but whatevs. And now his purple does damage.

Before he did a flat 4-5k when boosted in both red and green. That was it. His green currently does slightly less damage but with board shake. His red does more than double. His purple does any damage at all. It's all a step up.

I can't really agree too much with the other sentiments either. 9 covers in the vault is pretty good, I think. If you go mad you'll get 3/3/3, which means you're only 4 more away from maxing him. That's pretty good if this is your first or second year.

hodayathink

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

NObservation 3: Dino's recent buff actually makes him a much less useful character, taking away the one thing that made him unique without actually giving him good enough skills to be in the meta.

Strongly disagree with him being less useful.
Buffed currently his red does 10k damage for 10AP. That's pretty good, really. 5.5K damage for 7 green. Woulda preferred it cost 6 green, but whatevs. And now his purple does damage.

Before he did a flat 4-5k when boosted in both red and green. That was it. His green currently does slightly less damage but with board shake. His red does more than double. His purple does any damage at all. It's all a step up.

I can't really agree too much with the other sentiments either. 9 covers in the vault is pretty good, I think. If you go mad you'll get 3/3/3, which means you're only 4 more away from maxing him. That's pretty good if this is your first or second year.

I'm actually contemplating doing this, especially since Day 365 is coming up for me which should mean I'll get him to 4/4/4.

Vhailorx

Hyposphere and Dray, did either of you read my full post? I expressly addressed your criticisms. And in my first observation I expressly noted that this vault was probably the best ever opportunity for players to get a shot at winning at least a couple of dino covers during anniversary. That's a good thing. But that doesn't mean that other criticisms aren't valid.

The point is that now, after two prior years of anniversary events, there are likely to be lots of people with dino fully covered (so while you are correct dragon nexus, you missed my point. I am only addressing the vault as it pertains to players that already have dino at 13/13). And champing dino is not a realistic option for anyone but the uber whales who have enough spare iso to champ everyone. It's just not a worthwhile expenditure, especially after the redesign took away his unique 3ap power.

I definitely want anniversary to be a fun event for everyone with lots of dino covers flying around.

My only point is that for anniversary to be equally fun for everyone, it has to offer equally compelling prizes for everyone. And Dino is less exciting for people who already have him covered, but can't afford to spare 300K iso on him (a demographic that will only grow as dino if dino is offered every year). There are lots of possible solutions to this issue. Off the top of my head (and added #5 as per Simonsez's suggestion):
(1) Make dino significantly cheaper to champ
(2) Make dino's champ rewards significantly better than standard 4* rewards
(3) Use something like clearance levels to offer different prizes for different tiers of players (so that everyone can pick an anniversary reward that matches their roster and interests
(4) Offer new anniversary characters every year or two.
(5) Make Dino a useful mid-tier 4*, like howard, rather than trash tier.

And again, to be perfectly clear: This is not a complaint about anniversary. Even if dino covers don't mean much to me, this week is still double iso and a bunch of new events. Given what we currently know, it should be a very fun 10 days!

And nexus: I am sure that champed dino is fun to use. But just about EVERY champed 4* is fun to use because they are literally twice as strong as normal (or more depending on your champ level). 10k ap for 10ap is nice. But kate bishop does 14k for just 8 ap. Iceman does 16kap + 4 turns of stun for 12ap. When compared to equal competition, dino is substantially underpowered. And that's fine, except that he still costs almost exactly as much to level as a regular 4*. And he no longer has his unique 3ap power that made him a fun option to pair with other passive abilities (like prof. X, or KK, or OML, etc). He wasn't very good before, but he at least did some things that no one else could do. Now he's just weaker than your average 4*.

halirin

Yay for complaining about the anniversary! Thanks! It wouldn't be a special event at MPQ without weird complaint threads.

boldfacedfemme

I don't care for, nor do I want to roster Dino. So, that vault looks Meh to me. My luck with any vaults lately means I'll only pull stuff of no use to me. So lots of Dino, it is!

TLCstormz

As usual, vets are on some TRUE first world problems.

The truth with Dino is, anyone that DOES NOT have him covered full covered ( meaning NOT a vet ) is MEH!

Can you imagine spending all your money to get a 12 cover Dino, or to get the incorrect colors, preventing you getting him at 553 or some variation and then NOT being able to champion him?

Not only is he trashed, he would also have no actual usage as far as accelerating characters who are actually good ( ie champion level rewards ).

That is NOT a situation you vets will come into. It is a situation that NEWER players or anyone under the 4* tier will get trapped into.

You all, please, think about what you say, before you say it. Not to mention the situation of others. Thanks.

Dragon_Nexus

halirin wrote:

Yay for complaining about the anniversary! Thanks! It wouldn't be a special event at MPQ without weird complaint threads.

Think of it this way, if this is the only thing people can think to complain about, the devs have done a good job this year.

simonsez

The problem isn't the vault; the problem is that the dino buff is a major fail. I had every intention of champing him until they released the details. I would've been very happy with the vault contents if the buff had been adequate.

Vhailorx

simonsez wrote:

The problem isn't the vault; the problem is that the dino buff is a major fail. I had every intention of champing him until they released the details. I would've been very happy with the vault contents if the buff had been adequate.

Yes, I will add that to my list above.

mpqr7

I personally am excited to win more dino, so the OP is wrong!

Polares

simonsez wrote:

The problem isn't the vault; the problem is that the dino buff is a major fail. I had every intention of champing him until they released the details. I would've been very happy with the vault contents if the buff had been adequate.

I totally agree. Buffing his damage and leaving purple as is would have been a much better buff. Champing Dino now is a waste of iso.

Somebody compared Dino to the Thing, which I think is a fair comparison, and the Thing is much better in everything, and he is just a good 4, probably out of the top10 4s

The Vault is one of the best ever, if you dont have a maxed Dino.

Dormammu

Felt like throwing in my two cents.

I've never been lucky enough to get a Dino cover during any of the past offerings. Today I was fortunate enough to pull three of his covers, one of each color. I'll probably never cover max him, or champ him, or use him in the game outside of a required node.

And I'm thrilled.

It's so neat to finally have him on my roster. A trophy that I can point to and say: "See? Look what I got during the 3rd anniversary."

wirius

This is probably one of the most self-entitled complaints I've heard on these forums. I'm sorry we could only provide you with bubbly and a corvette, not a porsche. It amazes me how self-centered and unaware of how others are around them people can be.

Vhailorx

wirius wrote:

This is probably one of the most self-entitled complaints I've heard on these forums. I'm sorry we could only provide you with bubbly and a corvette, not a porsche. It amazes me how self-centered and unaware of how others are around them people can be.

**** wirius?!

Where is the complaining? Where is the callous self-centeredness? Where is anything you reference?

I don't just know that this is a minor problem overall, I SAID IT!!!!!! I praised both the particulars of this vault construction (re: getting Dino covers) and the overall value of this anniversary week. I said the post wasn't intended as a complaint.

Since when did saying "Hey, this is a thing that I noticed and it's not perfect" turn into some sort of epic and unforgivable entitled whining?

JHawkInc

simonsez wrote:

The problem isn't the vault; the problem is that the dino buff is a major fail. I had every intention of champing him until they released the details. I would've been very happy with the vault contents if the buff had been adequate.

Mostly I agree with you.

But I got 5 DD covers last year, and 3 for the one-year mark in Resupply since then, putting mine at 2/3/3. That's 8 covers overall.

I had originally hoped to get 5 more, thinking if I got the right color combos, I could champ him.

With the current vault, I don't see that happening. Maybe I only got 5 covers last year because of RNG and luck, but as someone who was hoping to be able to champ Devil Dino this year (or at least after gaining covers during Anniversary), the vault was kinda disappointing, BEFORE considering how they mixed up their buff and nerf bats before going to town on DD.

Like, had the DD buff been really good, I'd be extra disappointed because I don't feel like I'll be able to duplicate my experience with Anniversary from last year (despite having an entire extra year under my belt playing MPQ). Maybe it's just the perception of the vault, and I'll pull enough Anniversary tokens to split the difference and be fine, but it certainly doesn't make me feel optimistic about it, you know?

Fightmastermpq

I champed Howard because he is actually good. I'm champing Dino mostly as a trophy.

Bowgentle

The anniversary vault offers the best value for HP in the game, period.
I now have 11 covers for Dino in my queue and I will champ him solely for the two LTs that he'll spit out with that.
Come next anniversary, I will add more champ levels.

The rest of the vault is insanely good.
Buy a couple of 40 packs, you're never going to have better chances at LTs, 4* covers, HP and ISO.

Seriously, there are a lot of things to complain about - no clearance levels for anniversary events, clearance levels 8-10 still nowhere in sight - but the anniversary vault is not one of those things.

The complaint is especially weird since the vaults are tailor-made for vets who saved up HP and want to get the best bang for their bucks.