Why are people struggling?

jobob

Spiritclaw wrote:

A change in average scores is a possible issue, but placement isn't really. It's not people struggling so much as the status quo changing. I expect the same number of people are finishing top 10 now as before the change -- 10 per bracket. Jostling the matchmaking makes it easier for some and harder for others, but by definition the placement side of things balances out.

Well, don't forget we have fractured placement into 7 CL now. So if you are in CL6 or CL7, all the small fish are out of that pond.

I can only speak to CL7... But rank for me is much easier to achieve now (full 5* roster). If you are a full 3* roster, it is much harder. Maybe that's how it should be, but there's a definite change.

Akari

Previous season:
Average score - 1600-1800, occasionally 2k+
Roster type - 2 unchamped 435 5*
Cupcakes - Yes, baking and eating
Climb type early/late - mid
Common opponent level - boosted 4*+champed 5*, 2x champed 5*
Target rich? no
Generally within t5 in s1

This season:
Average score - 1500-1700
Roster type - same
Cupcakes - Baking and eating, but they aren't really cupcakes anymore
Climb type early/late - mid
Common opponent level - same
Target rich? no
Generally within t5 in s1

My experience is mostly the same, but it gets very dicey at high point levels. Anyone climbing with a 3 or 4* roster is a walking cupcake, and I also frequently have very low point hops due to massive sniping. It's very obvious that the pain felt at the highest level carries down to the bottom because we can no longer provide easier fights for them to get progression with. Placement is a bit easier due to clearly defined brackets of roster strength - the t10 is almost entirely made of champ 5* or close to it. The fun level is all the way down though.

Spiritclaw

jobob wrote:

Spiritclaw wrote:

A change in average scores is a possible issue, but placement isn't really. It's not people struggling so much as the status quo changing. I expect the same number of people are finishing top 10 now as before the change -- 10 per bracket. Jostling the matchmaking makes it easier for some and harder for others, but by definition the placement side of things balances out.

Well, don't forget we have fractured placement into 7 CL now. So if you are in CL6 or CL7, all the small fish are out of that pond.

I can only speak to CL7... But rank for me is much easier to achieve now (full 5* roster). If you are a full 3* roster, it is much harder. Maybe that's how it should be, but there's a definite change.

I'm in CL 7 with a 3* roster (though I'm close to getting my first 4* Champ) -- I figure I am the little fish in your pond. Still, my relative loss is your relative gain. It balances out. By the way, I know I didn't follow the requested format, but my pvp is a bit sporadic and I do it casually enough that I don't think I'm a usefull data point. My goal is to get the season 10 pack each season. If I do especially well and get it early, I usually don't pvp much for the rest of the season. Unless there's a prize I want.

Skygazing

Prev season:
Average score - 1300+
Roster type - Solid 4*s champed (Ice, GB, JG, Thoress, XFW, KP), best 3*s and some mediocres champed
Cupcakes - Yes, baking and eating
Climb type early/late - Varied
Common opponent level - Mostly 3*s and 4*s (mixed champs), occasional low 5*
Target rich? Yes


This season:
Average score - 650 or so
Roster type - Late 4* transition (Rulk and Cyke champed now), still no usable 5*s (highest is a 265 2/4/1 SS)
Cupcakes - No
Climb type early/late - Mostly later
Common opponent level - Almost all champed 3*/4*, and a much higher number of 5*s including champed ones
Target rich? Up to 750ish, wasteland afterwards

I should make it clear before getting into anything else that I took a serious step back from the game shortly before ranks were introduced, and have played far more sporadically than I used to. I'm much more casual now, and have mostly hopped around public alliances instead clogging up my usual family spots. Missing that alliance tag is certainly a possible contributor to what I've seen, which has left a very bad taste in my mouth.

When Thoress was boosted I had a pretty modest climb to 900, and got hit maybe once or twice by similar rosters along the way. Didn't even bother trying to push past that out of disinterest. The next time I tried to make 900 I had no boosted 4*s, and quit in disgust at around 800. Every match I came out of for maybe half an hour I had broken even or dropped below 800. I wouldn't have subjected myself to it again, but I didn't bother with PvE for Cage's release, and there was no SCL PvE after, so I had to shoot for it in Cage Match if I wanted to have at least 1 cover on my roster.

In previous seasons, I actually found 4* PvPs to be the easiest to climb in. Cage Match on the other hand was an absolute nightmare. I made it to 700 with just over 24 hours left and little trouble, then hit 800 and things went completely out of control. Much like the above scenario I found myself taking one step forward and two steps back with every match. Whether I was trying to be speedy with boosts and Ice/IM40 or maintain defense and speed with Cyke/JG, the result was the same.

Because I really wanted/needed the cover I decided to try to shield and hop. Did a 3 hour first, and managed two matches to 880ish before getting knocked back to 800. Decided to play it safer and went for an 8 hour and one good queue, which is saying something because more than half of the teams I was seeing were high 5*s worth 35ish points apiece. The remainder were champed 3*s and 4*s worth less and a handful of champed 5*s worth mid 40s. My reward for trying to play it safe? 780 after a single match, so I shielded for 24 in frustration. The next day I tried to be safe again and ended up in a similar predicament, but managed to claw my way to 825 and shielded for 3 again. Finally with two matches on my next hop (1.5 hours before end) I hit 905 and let myself plummet to 600.

In past seasons when I had a boosted 4* it was relatively easy to get to 1k without shields. But even without, I found that climbing with a decent defensive team (HB/JG) to about 800 or so, then pushing to 900-950 with IM40/Ice for a 1st shield worked every time. If I played everything decently after that, I could get to 1300+ with only 2 shields, sometimes even just 1 and breaking at the end.

Combine the absurd amount of HP I had to drop for that single Cage cover with the sheer number of fights, and PvP is not at all a good time for me anymore.

Magic

It might be luck or just the buffed 4* (Jean and IceMan with IM40 as support) but I've managed to get to 1.2k and grab the extra CP for the first time. Would it be easier or similar in previous system I don't know. I know that it won't be easy to repeat it as there were basically no targets (if not for the lucky fat cupcake I would still miss this chance).

So the CC are still there - only they are harder to beat by transitioners and maybe rarer. But lowering the score to 1,2 makes the goal at least visible for the ones with boosted 4* but without coordination outside of the game.

Calnexin

OneLastGambit wrote:

For those of us who are early to mid 4* transition and above are finding it easier, with more targets and lower progression.

From my experience I get a much bigger variety of targets, this is probably due (in equal parts) to the new defensive system forcing wacky teams out there and also the mmr seems to match me a little better at certain levels. Anecdotally this thread has confirmed what I thought about mmr...

0-650 = teams are largely 3* and below
651-850 = teams are largely 4* with a champ or 2
851+ = seems to be the higher tier with mutiple champed 4* and the occasional 5*


Is there a 5* player who can give a comparison ?

I'm not a 5* player. Early 4* transition.

0-600 - teams are some combo of maxed 3* and middle to max 4*. I've yet to see a 2* character in the current system. There are some 5*, usually between 2-6 covers.

I haven't bothered to climb beyond 600.

AtlasAxe

Prev season:
Average score - 1300+
Roster type - 3 x 5* at 360-375. 4* transitioning (XFDP, HB, JG, Rulk, Cyclops champed, many during season), 3/4 3* champed
Cupcakes - Yes, baking and eating
Climb type early/late - Varied
Common opponent level - Mostly 4*s (mixed champs)up to champed 5*
Target rich? Yes


This season:
Average score - 900 -1k.
Roster type - Same, except about 95% 3* champed by end of season. (Just Sentry left as of today)
Cupcakes - Some limited grabbed but still quality teams, not truly cupcakes.
Climb type early/late - I've tried a mix
Common opponent level - Almost all champed 4*, plus high level and champed 5*/4* mix teams above 900.
Target rich? Up to 800 or so, then rapidly declining

In essence, the changes have made going above 900 too costly for me. Above 1k I tend to get hit faster than I can make points. Add to that the dearth of targets. Several times when I hit 1k, I have literally had 5 total teams available to queue: two selected on nodes, and cycle through three teams on the third node. Not 7, not 10 teams, 5 with no variety. Again, I can frequently beat those teams, but the time involved makes it highly likely I will have a negative hop, so I'm not going to waste my time.

Interestingly, I'm finding I accumulate HP if I just play to 900, and play some PVE. So my style is now: Climb early to mid event to near 800. Farm ISO. Late climb to 900 and shield out.

dsds

Prev season:
Average score - 725+
Roster type - Solid 3*s champed with a few champed 4*. most notible is 4thor. Rest is junk.
Cupcakes - No
Climb type early/late - Varied
Common opponent level - Mostly 3*s and 4*s (mixed champs), occasional low 5*
Target rich? not really


This season:
Average score - 725+
Roster type -Solid 3*s champed with a few champed 4*. most notible is 4thor. Rest is junk.
Cupcakes - No
Climb type early/late - Varied
Common opponent level - Almost all champed 3*/4*, and 5*s
Target rich? not really

Nothing has changed for me. 800 was hard to hit before. 800 is still hard to hit. I get hit by less 3* champed rosters. My float is lower at 350. Overall not really any noticeable change. I started fighting 4* rosters and beating them, which I didn't do before. much easier to hit higher level teams with more points than low level teams with low points. If I am getting clobbered in the first few turns, I retreat and lose a few points and 10% health, then try again. I find luck is a very big factor, so it doesn't matter whether I am fighting a 3* or 4* team, I am just as likely to lose to either group due to luck or unlucky cascades. So why fight the lower points at all. In fact, I even take on oml teams if they are worth more than 45 pts.

Tuttle0606

Previous season and this season was about the same. I scored 1300-1400, got 3 champed 5* and face mostly champed 5* teams. The biggest change has been placement. I've been playing 2+ years and before the changes I had 1, 1st place finsh but I was t10 time t25 most the time. Since the changes I've had 2 1st place finishes and nothing less than t5. I've also used a lot less hp this season as well.

El Satanno

Prev season:
Average score - ~1700
Roster type - 5* (2 champs)
Cupcakes - Occasionally
Climb type early/late - mostly early
Common opponent level - Champ 5*
Target rich? Yes, very.


This season:
Average score - ~1400
Roster type - same
Cupcakes - What passes for cake now, less frequently
Climb type early/late - same
Common opponent level - Champ 5*
Target rich? Hell no.

I guess I could be celebrating, since I haven't changed my playstyle at all but have gone from placing t100/t50 to placing t10. It's kinda meaningless to me, though, as the CP at the end of progression are really the true prize for me. Everything else is nice and all, but I don't care. What I do care about is the rest of my alliance. In that respect you can pretty much just read what The Rockett wrote earlier in this thread and repeat it in my voice. It's very disheartening to hear many of my alliance mates saying this change has ruined their game experience. Boo.

boomshaka40

Previous season:
Average score - 1300-1500, occasionally 1700+
Roster type - 10 4* champed
Cupcakes - Yes, baking and eating
Climb type early/late - early/mid
Common opponent level - 3*/4*
Target rich? yes
Generally t25 of s1
Shields: 2-3

This season:
Average score - 1k-1.1k
Roster type - same
Cupcakes - 4* rosters are the new cupcake after 900
Climb type early/late - early/mid
Common opponent level - same to 700-800, then 4*/5*
Target rich? no
Anywhere from t5 to t25
Shields: 4-6

I will say that placement is much better for me, but it is not as helpful as CP for developing my roster. It is definitely more HP expensive to get over 1k without boosted chars. It is a slow climb after 900 too as you can only do 1 hop reliably without being hit, and that usually for 40-50 points, finding a 60+ target is rare. So, start early and shield out for the event before the bonkers 8 hour mark. MMR makes me unable to q dual 5* rosters at any point, so I've lost out on high point targets under the new system. In any event, the new system has slowed progression for 4-5* transition rosters, which is probably the point. If I didn't have a stable of strong 4*, I'd probably have quit out of frustration. It's definitely a paradigm shift from focusing on progression to focusing on placement. Hopefully SCL 8 - 10 will have more CP available at the 575 progression level and for placement awards.