Why are people struggling?

OneLastGambit

I'm curious as to why people found this season so tough when myself and many people I've spoken to (from lower to higher tier players) found it easier. So in the same format I've written below post your experience and then maybe we can see why people are struggling.

Prev season:
Average score - 850 points per PvP
Roster type - mid 4* transition
Cupcakes - No
Climb type early/late - late
Common opponent level - champed 4* and level 400 5*
Target rich? No.


This season:
Average score - 980 points per PvP
Roster type - mid 4* transition
Cupcakes - No
Climb type early/late - mix
Common opponent level - champed 3*
Target rich? Yes

MrCrowley

Prev season:
Average score - 1450 points per PvP
Roster type - early to mid 4* transition (5 champed 4s)
Cupcakes - Yes
Climb type early/late - early - mid
Common opponent level - Champed 3s, champed 4s
Target rich? Not sure what this means, but I had plenty of targets before 900.


This season:
Average score - 920 points per PvP
Roster type - early to mid 4* transition (5 champed 4s)
Cupcakes - No
Climb type early/late - mix
Common opponent level - After 700 all full of 4s champs
Target rich? Before 700 yes, after 700 only difficult fights for 30-39 points mostly.
Hops over 900 are doomed to be negative, or worth 40ish points.

Getting to hate the new system. I would like cc to be fixed in a way, but then tune progression/points available for everyone so that top progression is feasible.

Punisher5784

I agree. This was the first PvP Season since I came back from Retirement that I actually enjoyed. I don't know if it was due to Cupcake removal or if it due to the short season. Regardless, I would like to see short seasons moving forward. Maybe they can have two short seasons per month: Season X?? Part 1 then Season X?? Part 2

MrCrowley

My guess is that the new system is easier to do mediocre in, but impossible to do well in if you dont have the roster. Particularly referring to progression, not rank. Rank matters really little if you cannot get 4s covers from it.

smoq84

I have 6 champed 4*'s and my goal is always to reach 4* cover reward.
From my point of view: I use the same characters, I fight the same opponents, the difficulty is the same, but now I need 100points less so usually it means one shield less.

So now it's easier to reach my goal, I spend less on shielding and it requires less effort.
And on the way a get 10cps on 575points.

For me new format is a lot better.

Magic

smoq84 wrote:

I have 6 champed 4*'s and my goal is always to reach 4* cover reward.
From my point of view: I use the same characters, I fight the same opponents, the difficulty is the same, but now I need 100points less so usually it means one shield less.

So now it's easier to reach my goal, I spend less on shielding and it requires less effort.
And on the way a get 10cps on 575points.

For me new format is a lot better.

That is practically my sentiment as well. With 900 replacing 1k as the goal and 10 CP given on the way it's already much better. When I didn't need the 4* (as in couldn't use it) i went to CL6 and got great placement (top10 and top 25). For the ones I needed the cover my placement was rather top 50 in CL7 - still an improvement as I was often out of top100 with 1k in the previous system. All working fine for me.

OneLastGambit

I should add that during fist bump I did get to 1120 but work comittments prevented me from hitting 1200 but I did have 3 matches queue for 50 points each so hitting 1200 is doable for me.

In previous season hitting max progression was a pipe dream.

like1tiger

It's easier for you with your champed 4s cos your beating up on more champed 3 stars. Guess how the ones are going that only have champed 3 stars.... It's very difficult and frustrating

optimus2861

My experience is skewed, because this is the first PVP season in which I had a champ 4* to use, namely Lady Thor, and she was boosted for the first week, so I was able to stomp through to 800 on the first couple of events. I'm not sure how things will proceed from here.

Prev season:
Average score - 400-500 points per PVP but with several 'screw this' sub-300 finishes
Roster type - early 4* transition
Cupcakes - No
Climb type early/late - mix
Common opponent level - champ 3* to champ or near champ 4*, 300'ish 5*. When I dipped into slice 4, champ 4* were common
Target rich? Sorta but it was a constant bloodbath and very frustrating


This season:
Average score - uh, 800 a couple times, just under 500 for Cage Match I think. Easy 800 in SHIELD Sim.
Roster type - early 4* transition
Cupcakes - No
Climb type early/late - early
Common opponent level - champ 3*, some champ 4*, sometimes 315+ 5*
Target rich? Yes

ZootSax

Prev season:
Average score - 200-400 points per PvP (~1200 in Sim; can usually hit ~1500, but can't hold and don't shield)
Roster type - Early 3-4* transition
Cupcakes - No
Climb type early/late - mix
Common opponent level - boosted champed 3*, unboosted champ 4* and level ~300-325 5*
Target rich? No.


This season:
Average score - 200-400 points per PvP (850 in Sim)
Roster type - Early 3-4* transition
Cupcakes - No
Climb type early/late - mix
Common opponent level - boosted champed 3* & unboosted champ 4* (saw champed 2* for the first time in a few seasons outside of LR, but they were rare; 5*'s were also much more rare)
Target rich? No

The MMR felt a little different this season and I'm not sure if it was a stealth change or if the compact season meant that whatever 2* & 3* players do PVP these days were playing in a more concentrated amount of time allowing my MMR to find them easier. I also saw a LOT less 5* opposition (~40-50% for at least one character typically, but maybe 10-20% here), but I have no idea why that would be.

Otherwise, the big change for me was simulator. In a normal season, once I get above 1,000-1,200, it seems like I get opened up to attack by 4* & 5* rosters well beyond my ability to compete with...at least to be worth the retaliation. This season, I can probably count on one hand the number of attacks I got from anyone before I hit 800-the first time I was ever able to hit the 4* in SHIELD Simulator. I'm not sure if I was "hidden" from higher level rosters at only 800 pts or if the season was too short to allow for many attacks, but it was a pleasant surprise how easy hitting the Spider Woman cover was.

All in all, it was a positive season for me, but I'm not sure I can read anything into it or if I just got lucky for a week or two...

alphabeta

Last season
Average score - 2000
Roster type - 16 4* champ 1 fully covered 5* at 360
Cupcakes - yes ate and baked
Climb type - early
Common opponents - mirror teams to 800/900 - then cupcakes
Target rich - via shield checking - mostly friendlies so lots of skips
Fun (you seemed to miss asking about this?) lots - baking when snipers out was a thrill, collaboration is fun, placement was actually lower than this season but who cares about placement - there 3* covers after all

This season
Average score - 1200 while Thoress boosted 900 without her
Roster type - 16 4* champs and 1 360 5* fully covered (to shirt a season for roster to improve)
Cupcakes - no longer exist?
Climb type - various - early climbing just makes you a target in this format so moved later over 4 events
Coming opponents - up to 800 mirror teams then either 4/5 point marchs va mirror teams or 70 point matches vs a championed 5* + friends
Target rich -not above 800, an absolute waste of ISO and time
Fun - none - the climb is the same (fine) but it basically grinds to a halt after maybe 14 / 18 fights as you hit 850/900 then shield out

2 + years and 000s spent and hitting progression is not expected with my roster - fine game just went from pay to place to pay to progress - shame on you devs - I want my money back as I spent under false pretences that games were supposed to be fun and progression was there to help you progress

The rockett

*updated with my info to keep with this thread*

Last season
Average score - 2500-4000
Roster type - 2 champed 5*
Cupcakes - Hell yes and master baker/front runner
Climb type - early
Common opponents - 2-5* champed then the baking and fun started
Target rich- Yes
Fun- BEST PART OF THIS GAME. Baking was a rush, long trains, the teamwork, helping lower rosters out. So much fun

This season
Average score - 2000
Roster type - same
Cupcakes - Still baking what I can to help out.
Climb type- early and front runner/baker.
Coming opponents - same. 5* champed.
Target rich - not as much. Still working with the same group. Just more non playing time queueing.
Fun - A hell of a lot less. See below.


So I have not really commented on any of this yet, so here are my thoughts. As a 5* player, these changes really didn't change anything for me except I cannot give back to help others which was the greatest thing I got out of "baking". My MMR was champed 5* before and still is. I cannot see 2/3/4* teams unless I am one of the higest in the shard. That is the same as before but is harder to get to.

I oversee 5 different alliances with my fellow commanders. We go from top 10 pvp team, top 10 pve/top 25 pvp team to noobs. With talking to all of them, and most are not on the forums or even know this exists, they are extremely frustrated. The 3/4* players got the short end of the stick. I see the load outs of when they hop. They do 1 match, win, and get hit. They lose 20 points on a hop and they were out for less then 1 minute. You want to know why they are getting mad? Right there. I see it all the time. Yes this is a player vs player, but with the current system ( I am well aware of what this system was before like the Sentey/Hood days but did not have 5*
Madness or match damage) these players are getting mad. It is getting to the point of them quitting. We had a few players rage quit during the season. This half season was nice with the lower rewards threshold, But when the new 28 day slug fest happens, let's see what it looks like. It is great that the spit the CPs so 3/4* players get some, but to reach Max progression is harder for them. The 900 wall is worse then ever. Not only about personal progression, which everybody does talk about, I really above not heard about alliance progression. With these changes, it affects alliances as well in a major way. Granted this short season nothing changes with the top 10 too much. But going forward I think a lot will. It will separate the spend a lot of money/have 5* luck against the spend some money and have terrible 5* luck. This is now a 5* game. Plan and simple. You have them or not. If not you will struggle. I am not sure what they have in store for the future, but I hope the consider what the lower tier players are dealing with and might end up losing a whole segment of the player base. Either quitting or going casual/F2P.
In closing, I get the changes, but it just sucks that we cannot help generate the points in the shard anymore to help out a lot of the player base that we work with in a shard. This game is not fun anymore to them. Not at all.

cyineedsn

OneLastGambit wrote:

I should add that during fist bump I did get to 1120 but work comittments prevented me from hitting 1200 but I did have 3 matches queue for 50 points each so hitting 1200 is doable for me.

In previous season hitting max progression was a pipe dream.

Nitpicking, but this isn't the same as hitting 1200, we have no way to know if you would have been attacked while fighting those 3 matches.

JFisch

This season was the second time I hit the 25 CP progression (first time was last season). I also went 4-for-4 on hitting the 4* cover progression in each event - the first time ever for that. What I don't know is if that's because I could typically hit between 850-900 before or if I just got lucky with the 4* boosts this time. Getting to use my Champion Thor for 3/4ths of the season helped, and then I got to use my champion Prof X in an event overflowing with special tiles.

Basically I spent two days working up to 500-575, waited until we got into the final three hours, then sprinted to 900 and shielded up. The 4*s were all useful for me for a change (champ level for Kingpin, 5th Miles yellow, 2nd Moon Knight black, 2nd Cage red).

Last season
Average score - 800-900
Roster type - 4* (12 champion 4*s, 33 champion 3*s)
Cupcakes - No
Climb type - late
Common opponents - Either 4*/4*/Featured or 4*/OML/Featured
Target rich - Eh. I could find folks, but usually not before 3-4 skips. Past 800 I'd lose points faster than I gained.
Fun - Until 800, yes. Then horrible frustration.

This season
Average score - 900-925
Roster type - Same
Cupcakes - No
Climb type - late
Coming opponents - 3*/3*/Featured early on, then from about 450 on it was Champion 4*s and OML.
Target rich - Yes and no. Easier time finding 35-40 point opponents, no 50-70 point opponents. Less fear of retaliation when I found a 3*/3*/F team worth 35 though.
Fun - Yes, tons. But I was in it to get 900 in the last three hours and get out of the pool.

Meander

Prev season:
Average score - 1500-1800 points per PvP
Roster type - mid 5* transition (12 cover phoenix capped at 390, 15 champed 4*)
Cupcakes - Yes
Climb type early/late - early/mid
Common opponent level - champed 4* and level 400 5*
Target rich? In cake range could see all cakes, so I suppose yes?


This season:
Average score - 1200-1300 points per PvP
Roster type - mid 5* transition (12 cover phoenix up to 420, 17 champed 4*)
Cupcakes - If you can call them that
Climb type early/late - mid/late
Common opponent level - Champed 4* Champed 5*
Target rich? No

ZeroKarma

Prev season:
Average score - 3000 points per PvP
Roster type - 3 champed 5*
Cupcakes - yes
Climb type early/late - sometimes early, sometimes mid
Common opponent level - Champed 5* only
Target rich? yes


This season:
Average score - 1800 points per PvP
Roster type - 3 champed 5*
Cupcakes - Kinda?
Climb type early/late - sometimes early, sometimes mid
Common opponent level - Champed 5* only
Target rich? Middling

I did not suffer at all. I hit progression easily before 1st shield if I felt like it, and I could have cleared 2k each event if I felt like it.

But, I generally didn't feel like it. The fun factor for this game has gone down the **** compared to what it was before. So we had a wild west situation that I seriously enjoyed to a "fair", exceptionally boring slogfest where alliances and communication don't matter as much. Those who were slogging before, now have a more rewarding slog and so they enjoy it due to the lower progression and better rewards. I totally understand why people who never q'd or baked a cake are happier now. You should be. Same work for better pay.

Now, Rockett above mentions that the middle class that was spending a ton of money on shields and HP eating cakes and achieving progression is now feeling a bit disenfranchised. This is a revenue stream in danger and they need to be re-engaged in some way.

TxMoose

Prev season:
Average score - 1500-2000 points per PvP, scored ~20K season most of the recent seasons
Roster type - early 5* transition (10 cover OML capped at 405, 12-13 champed 4*)
Cupcakes - Yes
Climb type early/late - mid-late
Common opponent level - champed 4* up to champ 4/5 teams. mostly high 5*/champ 4* opponents.
Target rich? yes

This season:
Average score - 1200-1500 points per PvP, season 7300
Roster type - early 5* transition (10 cover OML capped at 405, 14-15 champed 4*)
Cupcakes - yes if you can beat a single 5*
Climb type early/late - mid-late
Common opponent level - champed 4* up to champ 4/5 teams. mostly high 5*/champ 4* opponents.
Target rich? yes up to a point, then gets dry 1K-1100 typically. I did hit 1200 on my first shield once (was s1)

my scores understandably went down but my placement went up a bit. never missed a 1200 progression. typically use 2 shields on Friday and the weekend events and 4 shields on TU/Wed events. first shield typically in the 1100s. anything more than 1 match during a hop adds risk. and there's risk on 2 fronts. if you have a big target lined up, 99% chance it has a champed 5*, which comes with its own risk. then, if you try more than 1 match, they take long enough to where taking hits is a real risk. many try and force 3 matches in and then complain about getting hit. if people would adjust, they'd keep more points. I've taken 1, 2, and 3 matches on hops and it just depends on the team your fielding and the activity of the slice during your hop. breaking at the end is another thing that has changed some. instead of lining up as many ccs as possible, you take on a real team. its been a learning experience, but I think I have a handle on what's needed moving forward. my ranking jumped up one level. in s1 I typically ranked t25 with an occasional t10. this season I never ranked lower than 10 in s1 and had a chance one event for t5, but I was traveling and didn't break at end. in s4 I was typically t50 with maybe a chance at t25 and this season made an easy t25. my season I usually just barely make t50. this season I was 28th (I climbed and shielded in sim to see if t25 was in reach - could have easily just left it for easy t50).

Astralgazer

Can we move on???

This **** about how great PVP before or after cupmageddon has gotten stale.

judge judy

Prev season:
Average score - 1325 points per PvP
Roster type - 5*
Cupcakes - No
Climb type early/late - late
Common opponent level - 5*
Target rich? No? - Same 20 people until ~900, then maybe more


This season:
Average score - 1225 points per PvP
Roster type - 5*
Cupcakes - No
Climb type early/late - late
Common opponent level - 5*
Target rich? Same 20 people - no change


No change for this 5* w/o outside coordination.

Mechahamster

Astralgazer wrote:

Can we move on???

This **** about how great PVP before or after cupmageddon has gotten stale.

Must have been a bad baker then.

ZeroKarma

Astralgazer wrote:

Can we move on???

This **** about how great PVP before or after cupmageddon has gotten stale.

Actually, no. We may not simply move on. There was a very major change in the way PVP is played. This is some constructive feedback on how that system has affected the experience and enjoyment of the players. It is valid and pertinent information that should be looked at as part of the developer's continuing evaluation of their system.

The complaining is actually pretty minimal in this thread....so far.

I would like to complain that we were promised reduced point losses and that either hasn't happened or it's so slight as to be barely noticeable.